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Absolutely Unbelievable

A-VicA-Vic Expertise GuaranteedRegistered Posts: 6,970
I am so hacked off at the mo with my boss, the situation is behind his back i am looking for a new job and they have no idea, but i have no choice, the reason behind it is am on a really poor wage and have to pay for AAT myself (which means cant carry on next year).

I been there 3 years and proved myself over and over again but was told he wont fund any course, this was due to the fact he didnt my manager, i understood that to a point, wasnt happy but understood.

Well accorrding to what the office jounor (only been with us 4months) today she was told to go and discuss with my boss about him sorting out her funding for her to do the AAT !!!!:cursing:

So am sat here totally gob smacked and so ticked off its not even funny (and i laugh almost everything off).
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Comments

  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    O well over the shock - Just going to get out there and get a new job theres nothing else to do.
  • 118 11kate118 11kate Well-Known Registered Posts: 115
    Hi

    Just wait and see what the out come is of the office juniors chance of sponsorship and if she/he gets it then reapproach him (THE BOSS!) with this evidence. If it still a no then your boss shouldnt be too surprised by the fact that you will leave and get a job somewhere else.

    Keep us posted thou.

    Kate
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Thanks Kate

    Yeah am going to do just that, i dont blame the girl though i think she was under the impression that my boss was already sponcering me or i dont think she would have mentioned it.

    Ive claimed down a lot now, just was a shock - gonna keep looking for another job tho who knows the better one might come along :001_smile:
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Have a look at your contract, does it say anything about training?
    Consider discussing this with your boss and asking why the junior is receiving this benefit when it has been denied to you.
    Could you go over your bosses head, maybe? Is there someone else in your company that you could discuss this with.
    Has your boss's decision not to pay for the AAT anything to do with your attendance/timekeeping/work quantity or quality or any issue where you may be perceived as underachieving? Perhaps if this is the case you might assure them that you will improve on these points.
    Have you a union rep that you could discuss this with? Depending on your contract you may be entitled to raise a grievance.
    Why is the office junior treated differently to you? Are there any issues relaying to sex race, disability, sexual orientation, religious beliefs etc? There may not be but if your boss treats the junior differently to you he should be able to justify that it wasn't for a legally unfair reason.
    Always keep your eye on the job market, even if you are happy at work because there just may be something more fulfilling out there.

    Best of luck.
  • richardwrichardw Well-Known Registered Posts: 108
    what is your job title/role?
    seems surprising that they would pay for someone they took on as an office junior to do a specialist course, & not something like an nvq in business admin etc
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Thanks Cullen

    Hey Cullen thanks for the advise, However there are a few points i know daft on my behalf but:-

    1, I have no work contract

    2, Its only a small practise with one acting Accountant.

    3, I can rightfully say they have received 110% work effort on my behalf and have been told that on many occasion ( put in extra hours for moving offices ect..and never took the time back), however one of my biggest gripes is this we never received ivaluations, i havn't in three years with the company.

    4, As for the Junior i have no idea but she is only 19 am 34 maybe he see's her age as a benefit?

    5, Yes i did take some time off last October But close family member had died and i never received pay for 4 days i was off, and if that is the reason for this i think it is petty and an excelent reason to leave also.

    I think this is why i was totally shocked by the whole matter, there are one or two job opertunities in play at the momment and if they do happen i will show no loyalty towards my current employer as he hasnt to me.

    The whole thing has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    My Offical work title is Practise Administrator.

    I have 5 GCSE's & 3 A-Levels 2 GNVQ's in accounting but as far as they are concerned i dont think that matters.

    (sorry was getting annoied again)

    O and Foundation exam passed almost finished level one
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Don't ever worry about loyalty to an employer. I believe your first duty is to yourself and your family. Employers first duty is to their business and their profits before their employees.

    Low pay is palatable if you have other benefits such as training and paid time off etc. If you are on low pay and your boss refuses to fund any training, I think you should move on.

    I see you are from Greater Manchester, there must be lots of employers in that area that would be willing to employ someone who is eager to learn and make themselves a valuable asset for their company.

    If you work in practice, I understand the pay is usually low, have you considered working in a wider accounts field? The money may be better and you may still get an opportunity to train. At the very least perhaps you could afford to fund it yourself with a better pay package.

    It is a legal requirement that an employer issue a contract of employment to their employees. Ask your boss for it or why you do not have one. Contractual terms may have been implied when he promised to pay for training and his refusal now to pay could possibly break the contract and therefore justify you instigating a grievance against your company. I suggest you set down all your issues on paper and ask to discuss them one by one. Dont get upset, speak slowly and calmly and emphasise how concerned you are about this training issue.

    I hope it all works out.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Thanks again Cullen

    Yes i was thinking the same thing also, ive signed on with a few other agencies and there putting my CV out across the area had an interview but nothing as yet!

    I have pre typed out a letter of resignation for when the new job comes along setting out the reasons behind my leaving ect...

    My next step is to type out a covering letter clean up and update my CV and seek out a few different organisations, industry and even govenment, here and also in the north east, just to see what else is out there.

    Even if i was on the same wage as i am now it wouldn't bother me, like you said, as long as the training and benefits are a lot better than am receiving now.
  • flowerflower Well-Known Registered Posts: 160
    Seems like you need some union representation. Contact ACAS. They are usually good in these cases, even if you are not a member. Some employers need reminding about inequality within the workplace.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Thanks for that Flower, however, am reluctant to go down that avenue as i have no work contract ect and no promises have been made so really there has not been any breach in crontract am just happy to keep looking for something better to come along.
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    I have just re read your comments. I think that his differing treatment of you and the office junior may be illegal. If he justifies paying for the Junior's training because she is younger, then that is age discrimination and you could have a case.
    If you are going to leave you should consider whether raising a grievance will be worth it, only you can make that call. I think Flower's advice to contact ACAS is very good. The very last they can do is make you aware of your rights.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Hi Cullen

    Thats the point am at now am ready to cut my losses and learn for the future, and just keep looking for a better job.

    Some people might see it as giving up but i see it as looking forward.


    Vic
  • Gem7321Gem7321 Experienced Mentor DevonMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,438
    CAB is also very helpful, try having a look at the employment section http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment.htm
  • BethBeth Feels At Home Registered Posts: 40
    Leave!

    My advice would be to leave. Life is too short to work for an employer who doesn't appreciate or support you.
    You never know, when you hand in your resignation, they may start suddenly offering you the world if they want you to stay that much! But many companies will offer you as little as possible if they think that you'll just stick it out.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    A Unexpected Update

    Hey All

    I thought i would fill you in on whats happened.

    Well i asked about training costs again and yes the next year is going to get paid :thumbup: and it isnt afecting my annual payrise. So it seems am gonna stay put for the mean time, am so pleased, i do like the job and it is in practise so the experience is growing.

    Thanks everyone for your input in the past, it gave me the courage to speak to them. :001_smile:
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Good on you!
    Maybe your employer had second thoughts when they saw it was something you felt was important.
    It may still be worth keeping an eye on the job market, you never know if something better is out there or it may confirm that you are better off where you are.
  • PoodlePoodle Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 711
    Hi,
    Reading through this thread I am glad to see that you appear to have resolved your problem.

    One thing though, you say that you do not have a contract of employment well you do actually. A contract of employment is a contract of service which may be express or implied. it can be either oral or written. In essence an employment contract really is just like any other contract requiring an offer and acceptance (he agreed to give you work you agreed to turn up), consideration (your salary) and you have to have the intention to create a legal relationship. The contract might be a legal document created by a solicitor or just a hand shake and a 'see you on Monday' situation.

    However, Employemnt legislation does require you to receive within two months of the beginning of your employment a written statement of prescribed particulars, that should identify a number of things eg yours and your employers names, date employment started, pay, hours of work etc. If the employer fails to comply with this requrement the employee may apply to an employment tribunal for a declaration of what the terms should be, s11.S38 Employment Act 2002 allows a tribunal to award compensation to an employee claiming unfair dismissal if the particulars are incomplete.

    That aside and in reality, you still have to work there and you probably want to get another job. S howabout youo suggesting that he should sort this out for you, you could say that you have done some CPD in the area of employment legislation and discovered that he is not quite complying.

    If all else fails and he contines to be difficult, even with your training deal then be comforted that with no particulars then by law the minimum notice period that you have to give is one week. Timing then becomes the key, late December/ early January maybe:001_smile:

    Poodle
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Thanks Poodle and Cullen

    Yeah both things considered - on the job front am always looking you never know do you (Sir Alan if your reading i can start in a week) lol.

    But in all serousness i did receive an offer for an interview and it is 1500 a year more but not in finance and have deceiced to turn it down, now with the training involved i would be a fool to leave practise.

    Thanks again people :001_smile:
  • Jon_1984Jon_1984 Well-Known Registered Posts: 186
    Something I will say is you should get an agreement with your employer stating exactly what commitment is due from each side. Most employers state that you will have to pay them back if you leave during or within a specified timeframe after the course - without all obligations in writing you may get a nasy shock in your final pay if you were to leave part way through a course.....From family experience I can tell you that unless you get a tribunral
    going within three months of leaving an employments disputes over final pay can be nigh on impossible to resolve in your favour.

    I would suggest (not legally binding advice) a decent agreement sets out what your employer will pay for: College fees, exam fees (often 1st attempt only) and AAT membership and wether it for the following year or the duration of the full course.

    Also what happens regarding time off for exams (and dare I say it study leave) /
    day release where relevent.

    And finally what you will have to pay back if you leave - This will normally specify "For any reason except redundancy" and may be full amount if you leave within 6 months of course finishing/ or maybe full amount if you leave within 6 months of payment being made and 50% if you leave in the 6 months after that.... Depends on how nice your employer is really.
  • MercedesMercedes Just Joined Registered Posts: 4
    Vic,

    I feel for u love. Im going through something similar but my situation is worse cos i work for a family company and to cut long story short im not offered training as someone up the top is worried I may take her job!! Funny how other people get offered training and some dont. I say sod the lot of em. Do youre own thing, and if you can do the next years course and pay via instalments. You dont need to prove yourself to anyone expect you and if your boss cant see your potential then best you move on. Hope u find wot you are looking for. All the best xx
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    Commenting on a 28 month old thread... nice to get an update though Vic (not that I even read the opening post).

    P.S. I beat the 2010 post I can see you're busy writing right now!
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Funny enough i was just about to robert, things pretty much the same i still stand by the decision to turn down the job offer as have now gained a lot of experienance working at the same firm in the last two years (5.5 in total), this means i can now look for a better job in the very near future.

    I am now studying my last two units (again - resits) and paying for them myself but once complete am planing to relocate after that.

    One thing tho - the payrise never did happen but did secure some bookkeeping work to supplement - so id advise people out there be flexable.
  • bumblebeebumblebee Well-Known Registered Posts: 135
    It reminds me of my first job, was good working there, but my boss never offered to pay for my AAT course then; new comers come in they get more than me (this is the worst part never talk about your wages with your colleages in my experience) they also get offered for expensive weekend courses and lots of days for revision. Never mind, probably as I didnt have a contract then; decided to get out of there when I relialised i wont do more than bookkeeping. That was the best decision i made I have now experience i varied tasks accounting and tax.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    22/11/2010 a date i wont forget for a while - wow two years and x number of months since i posted this thread and it seems a lifetime away and almost six years employed by this firm a hugh update for you:

    Just handed in my notice to my manager! Wow it was really sad really - have an interview for a new job next month (public sector) i know hading in notice might seem mad before i secure a job but when its time to go it is time to go.

    The job is only part of it i am also relocating (so with or without a job i have a place to live at least) to the north east coast.

    So order of things is:-

    1 29th Sit exam next week
    2 30/11 to 23/12 Pack a house and get rid of everything (moving into a house with everything) any advise on how would be appriecated.
    3 23/12 Last day in practise then travel away for christmas.
    4 2/01/11 Come back close house hand in keys and travel back to new life
    5 4th January 2011 Fingers crossed new job.

    Totally Out of my comfort zone but hey here for a good time not a long time. :)
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Wow this thing is like my very own blogg lol - would like to add i was backed into a corner and left with no other choice accounts have been taken off me and work load got stupid and been bossed around by a prat just doing work expereince and boss stood back and bascially told me to do what he asked.
  • PrimblePrimble Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 734
    you're very brave but good for you!i dont understand why people stay in the same place for ags. to me it would feel like i wasn't progressing (unless the company expands massivly which would result in me getting a jr- which i'm told is realistic) sounds exciting but atm their is only two of us and i dont get the experience in things like tax and payroll that i would like.
    although those above are working on that incase my manager gets hit by a bus or something
  • anniemanniem Experienced Mentor Pewsey, WiltshireRegistered Posts: 1,326
    OMG - you have got a lot going on at the moment! Good luck with all the changes, I know from some of your posts that things haven't always been an easy ride for you at work.

    Go for it!!!!!!! ;)
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    thanks you two am really nervous but excited at the same time
  • keane155keane155 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 404
    You sound like you are going to be very busy. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you. :)

    Emma
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