To Students sitting 'Live' Sims

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Steve Collings
Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
Please be aware that I will NOT reply to your PM's asking for answers to simulation questions - specifically simulations in IAP. From now on any student that PM's me asking for my answers to live simulations will be reported to the AAT.

The point of a simulation is for YOU to demonstrate YOUR competence in a paper. Asking others for their help is cheating and cheats do not prosper!

Regards
Steve

Comments

  • jenny3549
    jenny3549 Registered Posts: 472 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    How could people ask in live sims? Aren't they still under exam conditions, ie no phone or books etc? Or am I missing something?
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Hi,

    Sometimes tuition providers will give the student supplementary questions which they take away to answer.

    Regards
    Steve
  • Bluewednesday
    Bluewednesday Registered Posts: 1,624 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    We had sims that were longer than the lessons so we had a break inbetween as well, evening classes had to do it over 2 nights
  • jenny3549
    jenny3549 Registered Posts: 472 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Oh! I didn't realise. I suppose with our ease of access with modern technology it would then be impossible to police it.

    Didn't know about the supplementary questions, just thought they were the same as the exams and it was just a pass or fail. I suppose the new CBEs will change that now anyhow.
  • coojee
    coojee Registered Posts: 794 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Please be aware that I will NOT reply to your PM's asking for answers to simulation questions - specifically simulations in IAP. From now on any student that PM's me asking for my answers to live simulations will be reported to the AAT.

    The point of a simulation is for YOU to demonstrate YOUR competence in a paper. Asking others for their help is cheating and cheats do not prosper!

    Regards
    Steve

    Hurray! Thank you Steve. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people asking for answers to live sims on this forum.
  • Bluewednesday
    Bluewednesday Registered Posts: 1,624 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    coojee wrote: »
    Hurray! Thank you Steve. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people asking for answers to live sims on this forum.

    Is there anyway of distinguishing what is a question to a live sim? I am not taking exams so dont know if students are generally asking a question or if it belongs to their sim.

    Do the AAT not take any questions off here if they relate to live sims?
  • SandyHood
    SandyHood Registered, Moderator Posts: 2,034 mod
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    Simulation supplementary questions appear to be treated inconsistently.

    Chichester College has taught courses, so a student who has not achieved the pass requirements receives feedback as part of the next or next but one class.
    If that student has met 80% or more of the pass requirements but not passed then that student has an opportunity to attempt new and unseen questions on an agreed date.

    The new questions are tested in the same conditions as the original simulation, often we will have a few students in the room at the same time but the students will be attempting different units.

    This forum gives me the impression that there are other organisations where the assessment conditions provide an opportunity for students to submit work which is not their own. When you look at the cover of the simulations every student signs to say he/she has submitted his/her own unaided work.

    It is my view that any organisation allowing the student the opportunity to take a supplementary question away to attempt and submit, that organisation is undermining the value of the qualification.

    If an employer has employed someone who passed their MAAT having not submitted his/her own work, this employer may have found the work this person did was poor quality and have the impression that MAAT does not constitute a badge of quality to look for in future recruitment.
    Sandy
    sandy@sandyhood.com
    www.sandyhood.com
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    I've had a few pm's as well asking answers to additional questions. I'm not sure how this works, because as Sandy said, they should be new and unseen.

    When I had to do additional questions for my sims, my provider send them to my work, so that the colleague who was supervising (someone from HR) could give them out to me on the set time. It came with a note not to show to me before I started and that I was not allowed to take them away from the room if I was going for a break.

    It did made me wonder if there are employers who give these questions to the students instead of keeping them up until the time they sit the questions.
  • coojee
    coojee Registered Posts: 794 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Is there anyway of distinguishing what is a question to a live sim? I am not taking exams so dont know if students are generally asking a question or if it belongs to their sim.

    Do the AAT not take any questions off here if they relate to live sims?

    It's because we have the assessors booklet so we know what the additional questions are. Not all tutors use the AAT's suggested additional questions (usually because they're not that good). If they're live sims then we also know all the live sim questions off by heart as well so we can recognise them a mile off.
  • Primble
    Primble Registered Posts: 734 Epic contributor 🐘
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    this is a strange one as i do distance learning and whenever i've had to do additional questions unnamed institute just sends them to me in the post with my results and i take them into work and do them in my lunch at my desk so my manager can see me doing them on my own. my manager then does a letter thing where we both sign to say it is my own work. but i do the original sim at the local branch of unnamed institute
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Just to follow on from Coojees reply, I think it is important to clarify that I am not one of the assessor's for any of the AAT papers - the giveaway to me is when students say things along the lines of:

    "I have been given a supplementary question......." (clear giveaway)
    "Can you tell me the audit procedures to be performed on......."
    "Can you describe a substantive procedure on sales......"
    "List 5 procedures to obtain audit evidence on......"

    That sort of thing! Quite 'specific' questions!

    Best wishes
    Steve
  • coojee
    coojee Registered Posts: 794 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Just to follow on from Coojees reply, I think it is important to clarify that I am not one of the assessor's for any of the AAT papers - the giveaway to me is when students say things along the lines of:

    "I have been given a supplementary question......." (clear giveaway)
    "Can you tell me the audit procedures to be performed on......."
    "Can you describe a substantive procedure on sales......"
    "List 5 procedures to obtain audit evidence on......"

    That sort of thing! Quite 'specific' questions!

    Best wishes
    Steve

    Sorry for lumping you in with everyone else!
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Hi Coojee,

    It's not a problem :)

    It was a personal thing really - I didn't want anyone to be misled and think I have any affiliation with the AAT other than as a fellow member (and really I should have clarified my position at the start!!)

    Best wishes
    Steve
  • SandyHood
    SandyHood Registered, Moderator Posts: 2,034 mod
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    Well said coojee
    coojee wrote: »
    Not all tutors use the AAT's suggested additional questions (usually because they're not that good).

    Sometimes I have looked at the AAT's suggested additional questions which should address all the original task performance criteria, they are often simpler and there are some that do not address all the criteria due to the simplication.

    I suspect I am in a majority of those who tend to draw up their own supplementary questions.
    Sandy
    sandy@sandyhood.com
    www.sandyhood.com
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