Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

System
System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
edited June 18 in AAT member discussion
I have recently taken on a new client -been trading for about 4 years as a limited company using the same chartered accountants. They were very happy with the service until the accountants were subject to a buyout - complained about poor service etc.

I wrote for professional clearance and still awaiting reply. However the client very nicely came to speak to me - they had received a call from their previous accountants calling AAT practices substandard, not able to offer a full service and AAT members were qualified to'o level' standards only. The former accountants were quite agressive and suggested that the service they would receive from any MIP would be poor and they would regret the move.

I was absolutely disgusted with this unprofessional behaviour. Has anyone else come across this attitude towards the AAT members in practice and Chartered Accountants eliteist behaviour? ( I didnt want to mention to the previous accountant that I have been trained by a chartered accountant for the past 20 years)

Needless to say the client is VERY HAPPY to stay with me. Saying that it is the person no their list of qualifications!

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    That is disgusting and extremely unprofessional. I know for a fact that this is against ACCA ethical guidelines so I'm sure it is against ICAEW guidelines.

    My boss is qualified by 30 years experience and his previous firm said to a client that his work was rubbish and he wasn't qualified but the client turned round and said 'but you let him do my work for you for the last 10 years'! Sort of shut them up!!

    Annette
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    I would complain to their professional institute about this. This type of behaviour from a firm of accountants breaks every professional rule in terms of ethics. Professional firms regulated by the ICAEW or ACCA have certain standards to conform to when dealing with clearance matters.

    No firm likes losing a client, however, the reality is they do and reacting with the "sour grapes" mentality is wholly unprofessional.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    That is terrible - would the client be happy to put in writing what the old Accountants said? If so, then I would complain - if not, then it will just be their word against the Accountants.

    Claudia
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    Just take the moral high ground and let the previous accountant wallow in their own pity at losing a client.

    Unfortunately, as AATs we cannot dispute that the ICAEW qualification is set to a higher level academically and therefore harder to obtain. Provided our clients know that a higher qualification does not necessarily mean a higher standard of work then there is no problem.

    When clients ask me what the difference is I usually tell them that there are various things a Chartered Accountant can do, such as provide certain forms of investment advice and conduct an audit, that I cannot do; so when their turnover hits £5.6 million then we may have to part company!

    My clients don't lose any sleep over it and neither do I.


    :wink:
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    I agree that this is very unprofessional behaviour and that it should be reported but, as a final year ACCA student, I have to say that the level of study is far more indepth for ACCA than that of AAT. ACCA encompases law, far more taxation, a much higher level of audit and assurance and so many other areas which are not taught at AAT level. We are actually Accounting Technicians, not Accountants, so I think it wrong to say that the only difference is that Accountants (who have the relevant two years practice experience before they can use their ACCA designation)are allowed to do more than us! I am also currently studying ATT and, with each qualification, I realise just how much more there is to know. Some of the ATT content is at a higher level or out of the scope of ACCA!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    A qualification does not make you an accountant. Knowledge and experience makes you an accountant.

    I am an accountant by virtue of the knowledge and experience that I hold. My examinations lend weight to that claim but do not presuppose it.

    Are you suggesting that I am lying to my clients when I claim to be an accountant?

    Do you feel that a newly-qualified ACCA after 3 years training and examination has a greater right to practice as an accountant than I do? And would be capable of doing a comparable job?

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'
    dido241 wrote:
    ...the level of study is far more indepth for ACCA than that of AAT. ... (who have the relevant two years practice experience before they can use their ACCA designation)

    No one has disputed the fact that ACCA or ICAEW is of a higher standard. However, having passed examinations alone doesnt equip someone with the required skills to practise as an accountant, so in that respect the qualification held is irrelevant. On the issue of qualiciation, ACCA require a minimum of THREE years.

    At the end of the day, the previous accountants have acted in an unprofessional manner due to sour grapes from loosing a client trhough their own fault. Its often said that clients of service business dont so much care about the level of qualification of their service provider, but rather what the provider can literraly do for them. In the case of many smaller and particularly unincorporated businesses, a chartered accountant is over qualified and over priced anyway.

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    I couldn't agree more with Dean and Neil. I am a FMAAT, practising as a MIP, but also working within an accountancy practice as well. I am not ICAEW or ACCA qualified but would certainly class myself as an accountant due to having worked in chartered accountancy practices at manager level for many years.
    I agree that with many small businesses the qualifcations are almost irrelevant to them provided that you offer a good service at a fair price. I recently took over a small Ltd Co client where the directors remuneration package was pure salary rather than salary up to PA level and then dividends. Also, the previous accountants (ICAEW qualified) had this company using the invoice basis for VAT returns rather than cash accounting. This left the company with a serious cash-flow problem last year. My client has now written a strongly worded letter to his previous accountants asking why these (and other) very obvious errors had occured.
    I think the ideal background for any accountant is a combination of accounting qualifications up to a high standard (but not necessarily ICAEW or ACCA) and relevant experience.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    I think you both took my comments the wrong way. I totally agree with everything you both say but, having worked in accounting for most of my adult life (I am now 53) and having only, in the last 10 years, decided to add qualifications to that experience I see how much more there is to the whole profession. I know that 90% or so of clients want a standard accounts/Tax Return service and many AATs provide this just as well (and sometimes better) than ACCA/ICAEWs. However, I meet very young and/or inexperienced AAT trainees/graduates and some of them believe themselves to be accountants. If you read some of the posts on this forum it is very obvious that some haven't a clue. As you well know this profession carries with it a responsibility to provide not only basic accounts/Tax Return services but a broad knowledge of financial planning, management, ethics, etc. and these are what is lacking for many inexperienced AAT graduates. I hope I have clarified my comments.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'
    dido241 wrote:
    I hope I have clarified my comments.

    Not entirely, no one (up to the point of your first post at least) has actually disputed a CCAB qualification being higher than that of AAT. An issue of the original post and those immediately after it is that simply having a qualification (and using that as the 'evidence' of professional superiority) doesn’t necessarily mean that the accountant is actually going to be any better at their job or can provide something that an AAT can't.

    I work with accountants and have friends who are also accountants and every so often you will here cases of a qualified practice accountant doing such things as mentioned by 'paulb'.

    To be frank, your post really appears to be on the lines of qualified is better simply for being qualified. People who put in the effort can pass exams (accounting or otherwise) but someone can’t learn to be a professional in the classroom and I would doubt the professional sincerity of any one who thinks they can.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Chrartered Accountants dismissing MIP as 'substandard services'

    I watch threads such as these with intrigue both on this forum and other forums and it does make for some interesting reading.

    On Friday I was presented with a set of financial statements for a pension fund which are relevant to an audit client I am currently auditing. The accounts were prepared by one of the "Big 4". I was amazed to find that when reviewing the accounts they did not, in fact, add up! The balance sheet (on the face of it) balanced, but it was £1 million out!

    This is not the first time I have come across accounts prepared by a big firm that contain fundamental errors.

    This goes to prove that there are good and bad accountants out there. There are also good and bad accounting technicians out there (I know - I used to work for one!) Her excuse for not doing accruals or prepayments for clients was "the client doesn't ask us to do them!" To be fair, however, this was nearly 10 years ago now. I don't wish to cause offence to others by saying that it is a fact of life, I'm afraid, that accounting technicians will always be viewed as "junior qualified" to chartered/chartered certified accountants (though this is mostly confined to the "older generation" of accountants). I, myself, came across this attitude when I qualified as an AAT and was going for interviews for a training contract. There's nothing you can do about it apart from dismiss it - I've had chartered accountants says that we chartered certified's "get a discount" because our exams are easier! Yeah right - I think comments such as these are more suited to the playground than to a profession!

    The arguments as to superiority of qualifications is one which, in my opinion, is a total waste of time. I have known qualified accountants not to have a clue about the basics - similarly some AAT qualifieds don't know where to start.

    There are good and bad accountants/accounting technicians all over the place like there are good and bad plumbers/builders/electricians etc. As long as you know that what YOU are doing for your client/business is up to a high standard then that is all that should matter.

    Kind regards
    Steve

    p.s.Neil - your comments surprise me "A chartered accountant is overqualified and overpriced anyway". Our firm has a substantial amount of sole traders who we act for and we do a lot more than the bog standard accounts/tax returns (tax planning, tax investigation assistance, computer assistance etc etc) I'm happy to say they are very pleased with the levels of service (and associated fees) they get from us despite us being over qualified and over priced! :lol: (p.s. this was said tongue in cheek)

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