AAT worth the paper it's written on?
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I have been told by 3 different accountancy practices I have been for interview with now that the AAT is not really considered an accountancy qualification in the practice world.
When I do tell accountants I meet that I am studying the AAT they laugh. It has been quite disheartening and an eye opener. Our college sells the qual as the gateway to riches and a brilliant career, in truth the AAT and the college take an awful lot of money from us on what seems now like rather spurious grounds!
I am still the only one on my course after two years who has managed to get a job in practice and non of us have been able to command a salary as big as the admin staff!
My current boss describes the AAT as an overview to see whether you might like to work in accounts! I was talking to one accountant who was bemoaning the fact that loads of AAT students were coming out but couldn't do the basics, this I certainly found. I wonder if the syllabus needs to be reviewed and less money spent on trying to say its all the students fault they can't get a job!
The truth is the AAT is a limbo qual. You can't do the basics so you can't start at the bottom and it isn't hard enough to allow you in higher.
A friend of mine who is a fully qualified accountant has seen his wage earning capacity drop from ΓΒ£44,000 to ΓΒ£30,000 in the last 6 years due to the sheer quantity of people trying to enter the market!
When I do tell accountants I meet that I am studying the AAT they laugh. It has been quite disheartening and an eye opener. Our college sells the qual as the gateway to riches and a brilliant career, in truth the AAT and the college take an awful lot of money from us on what seems now like rather spurious grounds!
I am still the only one on my course after two years who has managed to get a job in practice and non of us have been able to command a salary as big as the admin staff!
My current boss describes the AAT as an overview to see whether you might like to work in accounts! I was talking to one accountant who was bemoaning the fact that loads of AAT students were coming out but couldn't do the basics, this I certainly found. I wonder if the syllabus needs to be reviewed and less money spent on trying to say its all the students fault they can't get a job!
The truth is the AAT is a limbo qual. You can't do the basics so you can't start at the bottom and it isn't hard enough to allow you in higher.
A friend of mine who is a fully qualified accountant has seen his wage earning capacity drop from ΓΒ£44,000 to ΓΒ£30,000 in the last 6 years due to the sheer quantity of people trying to enter the market!
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Comments
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I'm afraid the people you have been talking to about are a bit like some of the clients I deal with. They talk to people "down the pub" who tell my clients how to conduct their tax affairs and my clients then proceed to tell me and I laugh. I call it "barroom" talk. The facts you are citing in your post are one-sided and (especially from your boss) completely and utterly bizarre. In fact I would expect more sense to come out of my 11 month old nephew's mouth - he knows more about the AAT than your boss does and my nephew can't speak.
If AAT isn't an accountancy qualification then what is it?
I am AAT qualified and am ACCA qualified so I am therefore qualified to speak for both the AAT and the Chartered qualifications enabling me to justify my dismay at the comments you have received from the accountants you have been speaking to.
Everyone who enters accountancy regardless of age, levels of experience or history has to start somewhere. The modern day accountant can get by without qualifications (though these are becoming fewer and fewer, certainly in practice). Those that choose to study, nowadays, start at AAT. Our practice actively encourages students to start at this level. Why?
AAT is a qualification in its own right. It regulates it members and members in practice and ensures its members are kept up to date by bringing in the new CPD policy (which the Chartered institutes are also doing).
You refer to your salary - what do you expect when you are an AAT Trainee Accountant? ΓΒ£30k, ΓΒ£40k? You will never get that sort of salary as a trainee who is living in the real world. I was in exactly the same position as yourself and worked hard to gain the qualification to see an increase in my salary. You work to gain the certificate at the end of the qualification and the rewards that brings - it does not come to you. The AAT cannot be blamed for students not being able to get a job so inferences about the syllabus being reviewed isn't really an issue. The path to qualifying as an accountant whether AAT or otherwise is long, arduous and undeniably hard work. Equally, once it is completed, you have the status then to make your own career path.
Your friend is quite unique as a ΓΒ£14k pay drop is a lot and (with respect) I find it hard to believe it is due to the number of people trying to enter the market.
Your opinion about it being a limbo qualification is entirely your opinion, to which you are entitled. However, if I were you, I would not give a stuff about what other people say about the qualification - the same can be (and is) said about how better the Chartered qualifications are compared to eachother - the fact is it is nonsense. I note you have posted this on the Technician forum so I assume you are at Technician stage. It would be a shame to throw away the work you have put in if you are at Tech. stage just because the minority find it amusing you are studying AAT. Undoubtedly there will be those that view this qualification as "junior" - this may be the case if you drew up a hierarchy of the various qualifications - but I know who I would give the job to if I had 2 CV's - one with AAT (even studying AAT) and one who hasn't.
Tell them to have a look at the job section in most local papers on job day - you will be surprised at the number of quite large employers and smaller ones who are seeking AAT studiers/qualified's - they may be surprised.
Food for thought?
Kind regards
Steve0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Hi, I agree with you on most of what you say. I have never expected to earn ΓΒ£40,000 as an AAT qualified person or trainee, I DO expect to earn more than someone who hasn't invested any time or effort in getting a qualification. There is little point to doing it otherwise!
But in my own locality where the abundance of ACCA qualified people looking for jobs is huge, AAT students come very low on the agenda and are of no appeal to local practices, especially as they are unable to do the basics required. It is a crying shame, so many people working so hard for diddly squat.
It is telling that the AAT spend a whole heap of time on "things you can do to get that elusive job!" If after nearly 3 years only one person has got a job in accountancy on a very well respected course with very high results and the average number of job applications per student is 50 - well says it all really. The drop out rate once reality sets in is quite alarming, with many people going into debt.
It just saddens me. I am being told this by practice managers and principals who have their pick, not "men in pubs", people who do have many 17-18 year old AAT students - but that I think is the point. AAT for the majority of practices is a way of working out which young apprenticeship scheme kids are worth investing in for ACCA
Interestingly in my own area, the job vacancies have changed significantly in the last 3 years. I joined the course because I used to see lots of industry jobs saying AAT required. These are now virtually non existant, replaced with ACCA required. A glut in the market I'm afraid
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Can I ask, are you UK based?
If you are then I am at a loss as to the jobs that you are applying for in practice. I work in practice and generally AAT students/qualified people are welcomed because they are able to do the basics (two of our staff are AAT qualified/1 student and are more than capable of producing a set of accounts). I implore prospective accountancy students to do the AAT because it offers a bridging gap to further qualification and is also a valuable qualification in its own right. As an AAT student, you seem to be dispelling all the credentials your potential qualification has to offer you.
I don't see how the surplus of ACCA qualified people would fill the role of an AAT student required vacancy. That does not make sense in the slightest.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the whole idea of the AAT a springboard for further qualification. In practice a lot of firms offer the AAT qualification because it DOES teach the basics which enable the student to go on to further studies without the culture shock had they not done AAT. I know if I hadn't done AAT and gone in to do paper 1.2 it would have been career suicide.
Perhaps (and I do not nor intend to be) patronistic, but I do think you have let these people cloud your judgement and you are now questioning the status of the qualification you are studying for based on their misinterpretation of the facts.
I would advise you to continue with your studies, as it would reflect badly if you didn't - do it for yourself and not for others and don't listen to others opinions as there are people that will be only too pleased to offer their "better advice", when, in fact, it is anything but. Their opinions are usually based on jealousy and ignorance and not fact.
Kind regards
Steve0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
With respect Catja, I think you need to spend less time listening to certain accountants who seem to talk from strange parts of their bodies and more time focussing on your own abilities and what you have gained from your studies so far.
I started the AAT foundation course in September 2004 on the advice of a close friend despite having no previous accounting experience whatsoever. My sister also studied formally through the AAT and has now been a MAAT for over ten years. At the time, I was 36 and in a dead end job so studying any other way was not possible. I studied in the evenings and also had to do two near full time jobs to support myself. Nearly three years on, I am now the Financial Controller of two small companies and earning a decent wage, none of which would have been possible without my starting the AAT. I have no interest in going into practice since my heart has always been into industry. Fair enough, there is still much I can't do but I can do enough so that the companies now don't need to use their expensive practice accountants anywhere near as much as before.
For your accountant colleague to say we can't even do the basics is quite frankly ridiculous, ill founded, smacks of hidden resentment (maybe even jealousy) and something I wouldn't expect from someone calling themselves a professional. Proof that none are so empty as those who are full of themselves. Sadly, I do believe it probably is a common attitude amongst many practice accountants, however, just like Steve above, we occasionally have to call upon a chartered accountant who also started life through the AAT.
There's always going to be elitism and snobbery as in nearly every other profession, but studying for the AAT has made my life infinitely better and turned it around. The winners are myself and my employers - the only real losers are the chartered accountants who have lost a great deal of revenue from the companies I now work for.
Regards,
Robert0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
If it's any help, my boss will automatically hire an AAT student over someone with an accountancy degree as the AAT student deals with real life and accountancy degrees are much more theory based. He said the AAT students always outlasted and were much more useful than someone just coming out of uni.
Annette0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
The facts above speak for themselves - you only need to look at Robert's experience to tell you how much he has benefited from the AAT. Annette has also benefited vastly from the AAT having had a complete career change a few years ago - she is now a final stage ACCA student with a promising career ahead of her and has MAAT status.
I certainly hope Robert and Annette's posts will convince you to continue with your AAT studies as to pack it all in at this stage would be foolish just because the minority discredit the AAT and I can guarantee you will regret not finishing the course if you do decide to pack it in.
Kind regards
Steve0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
If the accountancy practices that called you for interview said that AAT wasn't worth the paper it was written on, why did they call you for an interview!! why waste your time and raise your hopes!! You're better off not having been employed by people who discourage you.
I started doing AAT after working in Accounts for 10 years because things were changing and qualifications were becoming more important but I know that without my interest and without having worked in Accounts I may have found AAT a struggle.
Where I work now there are people who have been in the company for a long time and have moved up the ladder through work experience. People will try and put down things that they don't have, my work collegues aren't studying and so say that AAT is rubbish but yet new jobs require AAT.
Don't give up, I won't.
Good Luck
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Is there a minimum period of AAT qualification required before you can apply to be an MIP?
That might be their concern.
It is possible, as Robert has said, to change careers and qualify in a relatively short time-frame.
But having been involved in training CIMA qualified personnel in a practical environment, qualification doesn't always equal qualifed.
The range of services offered by a MIP speak for themselves, but I think they might agree that qualifying for MAAT was only part of their education.
Helen0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I have to say that the few accountants I have spoken to in practise view AAT very highly and indeed one of them pushed me towards doing it. Just have faith in yourself!
I got a new job in January with a good payrise and beat CIMA finalists to the job so if I can do then anyone can. I had been working in the fmaily business for 14years before that so that was my first proper interview and I got the job.0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
AAT is a highly respected qualification - I'm sure none of us would have contemplated it without researching its status a little.
But I think there is definitely a perceived problem with any qualification that contains NVQs.
A friend of mine is a certified accountant with his own practice and he has been amazed at the number of examinations I have sat. He believed that I would be mainly collecting evidence from my workplace.
Perhaps the NVQ status should be reviewed? Having reached mid-way of Technician, I haven't found it appropriate to my circumstances. None of my submitted work has been taken from my actual role.
But, as I mentioned earlier, someone who comes to accountancy as a complete beginner, passes all AAT stages and becomes a MAAT within a very short period does need practical experience to compliment the qualification - whether they choose to become a MIP or work in industry.
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I'm coming to the end of the Technician level myself. I did not expect to be on fantastic money, but I had hoped for more than ΓΒ£13k pa by now. Personally, I have very serious reservations about the value of the AAT qualification, especially on its own.
I suspect that it was never intended to be the highest-level qualification a moderately ambitious student has- but as a gentle(ish) introduction to the subject matter before going on to CiMA etc.
I'm not saying its a waste of time, but I do think the AAT exaggerate their own qualification's worth- for obvious self-promotion reasons.
I have not found the AAT course at all challenging, which makes me think:
If something is this easy to get, can it really be worth having?0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Totally agree with you.
A student new to accounts can fast-track through AAT without having too much practical experience.
If you look at some of the MIP's that post advice here, they had lots of experience before they took that step.
Some studied A level accounts, took other accountancy exams and worked in the 'trade' before taking the step of becoming a MIP.
The key is to compliment the AAT qualification with experience and other specialist courses.
It concerns me that a student can become MAAT without understanding or appreciating some of the basics of accountancy. Maybe that's why some 'accountants' do not favour the AAT?
Is it too easy to qualify, without having the knowledge and skills some accountants seek?
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
more people blaming the AAT qualification because they cant get a job !
do you have any A levels ?
A levels plus AAT usually make a very strong case for ACCA/CIMA training contracts etc
when you complete the AAT you go onto level 2 of ACCA why dont you go onto ACCA afterwards ?0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Helen, surely you know that before you can become a MAAT you must have at least one (or is it two?) years qualifying experience? Yes we can pass the technician exams, but we still can't use the letters if we don't have that relevant experience - it isn't handed out that cheaply. But while we're on it, what experience does a graduate need to pass a degree course? Sometimes none at all, which is why some of them make a complete hash of it when they start working in real life situations - and yes, I have seen this happen with my own eyes.Baggybooks wrote:It concerns me that a student can become MAAT without understanding or appreciating some of the basics of accountancy. Maybe that's why some 'accountants' do not favour the AAT?
Is it too easy to qualify, without having the knowledge and skills some accountants seek?
And I'd have to say that all people can - and should - vote (i.e. change jobs) with their own two feet if they're not happy or don't feel appreciated where they are. Employers will always pay as little as they can get away with but if we as employees allow it to happen to ourselves, then we have little to complain about and accept and condone it by our silence and apathy.
Regards,
Robert
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I believe it is one year - and that it can be claimed retrospectively.
Having worked in a practice and in industry, I have seen how far apart the two jobs are.
I just think that some accountants believe they need more from a candidate than AAT offers.
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Just thought I'd drop in my tuppence worth to this discussion.
I started my current post, then part-time, in April 2005. I'd never heard of AAT until I saw it on the "desired" requirements on the job application. I have a degree in maths, and that combined with other skills was enough to get me the job. My employer later sent me on an intensive bookkeeping course at FTC, and thats when I realised I wanted more training.
I started AAT at Intermediate level in 2006, and am now half way through Technician.
As someone with no specific accountancy training I've found the AAT course to be useful, enjoyable, and while it's not too taxing, I feel it gives me more confidence in my abilities and knowledge. I'm now full time, and while I'm not earning a huge salary, I feel that AAT has given me a foot in the door to moving onto better things.
One negative comment I would make is that the NVQ aspect of it (and especially the "Work Based Evidence") I find to be a bureaucratic pile of nonsense. The amount of useless paperwork and form-signing is just silly.
I think what any qualification shows is your commitment and willingness to stick things out and put in the work - so I'd recommend to Catja to stay with it - you've come this far, to drop out simply because of these petty negative comments would be a real waste.0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Your competing with ACCA qualified people too how do expect to get anywhere
to be honest i think this person just wanted a moan !0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Yes, I already have a degree (science degree) and have just started AAT Technician level. I think the qualification is excellent. I currently dont work in finance but have done some finance work before I started AAT. I see lots of jobs advertised looking for AAT part qualified or qualified persons in my area. When it comes to looking for work employers aren't just looking for qualifications. Employers want good communicators with high standard of written and spoken english, team players, a positive attitude, relevant work experience and good references. There is a great deal of competition for finance jobs having a qualification is often essential but its not what sets you apart from all the other people applying for the same job. Getting advice on CV and covering letter writing, interview skills and doing dome voluntary work to get experience can all really help get you the job you want. Dont blame your qualification if you cant get a job, look at what you can do to improve your chances.
Emma0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Hi
I became a qualfied MAAT in the summer, and on that basis I was promoted to Bursar (as that is part of the job spec). All the Bursar and Finance Officer jobs I have been looking at all ask for a minimum of AAT qualified or part qualified ACCA. The qualification is not something to be sneered and for me it didn't come easy.
Eva
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I really do believe that some people expect the job offers are going to come flooding in just because they've passed a qualification. Quite ridiculous. At my old place, we used to see people coming out of uni all the time and automatically expecting us to offer them a job just because they'd recently got a design technology degree under their belts. What many couldn't copmprehend was that there were so many people with the very same degree to choose from, that it wasn't merely just that but what else they could offer to set them apart as individuals.
Compounding on what Emma wrote, passing a certain qualification will only get you to the interview stage but it's what you do once you're there that usually determines whether you get the job or not. Turning up with a holier-than-thou-I-deserve-this attitude quickly gets you shown to the exit door.
Robert0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Hi
Well from my own experience and clearer the majority of the people on this thread, I think the AAT qualification is worth having and I'd have no concerns about finding good work on the back of my AAT qualification.
GJP104 wrote (in this and a previous thread)I have not found the AAT course at all challenging, which makes me think:
If something is this easy to get, can it really be worth having?
To answer the question, I think you need to look at whether or not the qualification itself has done anything for you, not necessarily how easy or hard it is. I found my driving test pretty straight forward, but being able to drive is pretty important to me!
Going from GJP104's previous post and those of others, I think too many people place career hopes on the basis on qualification alone (AAT or otherwise) without thinking about the experience. A qualification can do an awful lot if you use it well, but without the other tools of career progression you will get nowhere fast.
There's been a mention previously about AAT students not being able to do the basics. If that's the case I would a)blame those candidates individually for just learning to pass exams rather than actually learning the subject matter and/or b)the employers for looking and what qualification/s the candidates have rather than what they have gained in terms of experience. Im not one to gloat, but I could certainly do more than the basics when I completed my AAT and more in some respects than part qual chartered students.
Getting a foot in the door can be really difficult, but itΓ’β¬β’s the same for a lot of careers and the flexibility of accounting courses can only do so much.
Neil0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?NeilH wrote:I think you need to look at whether or not the qualification itself has done anything for you, not necessarily how easy or hard it is. I found my driving test pretty straight forward, but being able to drive is pretty important to me!
A very appropriate analogy, Neil.
It's fair to say that the most useless qualifications are those which are of little or no real use at all in todays modern world and I hardly think the AAT can be considered in that category.
Robert0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I personally find posts like this annoying. It is a discussion forum but I think if you are experiencing difficulties with intrepting the usefulness/acceptance etc of the AAT qualification then you should be discussing it with your college or provider. Please remember that there are a lot of people who are giving up evenings, social lives and weekends amongst things to gain this qualification. Too much time and effort goes into it to have it belittled. I am not doing it to assume I will be paid more, I'm doing it as my employer is investing in me and I relish the thought that my employer wants me to not only improve myself but believes in the quality of what I provide to the senior management because of the understanding I have had professional training. My employer certainly thinks it's worth the paper it's written on and so do I!0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
its mostly poor quality candidates who take the AAT thinking that it will magically land them a job in accounts that come on and complain.
once they get the jobin accounts and see how the AAT is relevant the usually change their tune0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I think that's a bit harsh 'Blank' since there's a recognisable difference between someone being 'poor quality' and someone who's just inexperienced or a relative novice at something. The former is irrespective of age whereas I believe the latter is usually applicable to people fresh out of study with little or no real world experience yet - with yet being the operative word here.blank wrote:its mostly poor quality candidates who take the AAT thinking that it will magically land them a job in accounts that come on and complain.
I personally blame the current 'want-it-all-now' culture where students are increasingly taking watered down or irrelevant degrees and yet leaving with unrealistically high salary expectations once they've finished their studies. Qualifying is only winning half the battle to be rewarded with a successful career.
But that's just me...
Robert0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I'm having trouble with the AAT status as it is stopping me finding a job at my current level! I actually got asked in an interview if I would be bored in purchase ledger (I said no, of course).
I'm happy here, but the whole department is closing and I have to find something by the end of the year, without gaining any extra experience due to lack of ladder rungs (they're all at the bottom).
What I need is someone to take me on and give me the higher up experience.0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
I just wanted to add on to this because I've had the same experiences with employers belittling the AAT qualification, this is obviously very frustrating and I have to agree it can make me wonder what all the effort is for!
Then I remember how much I'm enjoying the course, and how many doors it can open in the future whether through work or more study. I hope to go onto the ACCA in September (hopefully if I pass exams in June
) and because of the AAT qualification this will hopefully make the next stage easier. So stuff all the miserable old goats, this is about empowering yourself for now and the future, don't let anyone try and put down what you are doing. 
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Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?Neil wrote:I found my driving test pretty straight forward, but being able to drive is pretty important to me!
I think I see your point but, to further the analogy, being able to drive is such a common ability that it is barely worth mentioning, if at all. Its a given that virtually everyone will be able to drive, in my opinion.Purle Girl wrote:I'm having trouble with the AAT status as it is stopping me finding a job at my current level! I actually got asked in an interview if I would be bored in purchase ledger (I said no, of course).
I'm happy here, but the whole department is closing and I have to find something by the end of the year, without gaining any extra experience due to lack of ladder rungs (they're all at the bottom).
What I need is someone to take me on and give me the higher up experience.
I have a very similar problem. Because I am not getting anything other than the most trivial experience, I cannot get a higher-level job. Equally, similar level jobs reject me because they feel I would be bored doing them (and reasonably so, but I have to work my way up somehow).
Plus, there's the worry that an ambitious applicant could be after the interviewer's own job after a few months.0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?
Is it the experience or lack of it that is keeping people from progressing rather than the AAT qualification? I think a lot of employers may look at a CV and see what a person has been doing and assumes that "mundane" tasks will be boring or the person will get bored and then move to another job/position leaving a gap again.0 -
Re:AAT worth the paper it's written on?GJP104 wrote:Neil wrote:I found my driving test pretty straight forward, but being able to drive is pretty important to me!
I think I see your point but, to further the analogy, being able to drive is such a common ability that it is barely worth mentioning, if at all. Its a given that virtually everyone will be able to drive, in my opinion.
It took me longer to pass my driving test than it took to qualify for AAT!0
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