University after AAT

I would like to do CIMA after AAT but I have also discovered that my university offers 1st & 2nd year exemptions from a BSc course with sufficient prior experience and qualifications. I am just hoping that what I have is sufficient.

Does anybody else have any experience of this?

Don

Comments

  • Sonny_L
    Sonny_L Well-Known Registered Posts: 201
    There's a recent thread on this in member discussion if I remember right.
  • mark057
    mark057 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 354
    I got in contact with a local university about my admissions chances.

    To be perfectly frank the impression I got from the admission tutors I contacted was that they only viewed the AAT as a supplementary factor in making degree placement offers.

    They were rather more interested in the GCSE and A level results I obtained nearly ten years ago.

    They did not really view the AAT as a proper professional qualification and thought that success in the ACCA or CIMA would be a better qualification to determine my readiness to study a degree programme.

    I have given the university option genuine consideration given I'm almost finished my AAT studies and as I'm struggling to find paid employment.

    The ACCA and CIMA courses are very expensive to join and way out of my league in costs. So I will just have to wait and see I suppose.
  • Bookworm55
    Bookworm55 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 479
    To be perfectly frank the impression I got from the admission tutors I contacted was that they only viewed the AAT as a supplementary factor in making degree placement offers.

    Which university was it? It really depends which one you speak to. My experience was:

    East Anglia, Essex, De Montfort and Anglia Ruskin all allowed direct entry onto the second yearbased on my AAT.

    Nottingham would have allowed entry onto the first year, but this may have been based on my A-levels (which I did in 2001).

    I would contact the admissions departments directly.
  • brett316
    brett316 Feels At Home Registered Posts: 48
    I still don't understand the point of this?! NVQ 4 is the same as degree level and CIMA/ACCA is like a postgraduate degree so it is still a higher/better qualification than doing the uni degree.

    I guess the only thing is the costs as mentioned but why not take a career development loan out or something similar, its almost the same as university as you have your student loan etc. and what you get out of it is much more relevant and professional.
  • Bookworm55
    Bookworm55 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 479
    NVQ 4 is the same as degree level and CIMA/ACCA is like a postgraduate degree so it is still a higher/better qualification than doing the uni degree.

    Professional qualifications and academic qualifications are not the same thing at all, even when they are in the same subject.

    In what sense of the word is ACCA (or whichever) "higher/better" than a degree?

    A vocational/professional qualification is also less transferrable because it is linked to a single set of professional skills. To quite a large extent, a bachelors degree is a bachelors degree and can be taken to a different industry more easily.
    I still don't understand the point of this?!

    The point is that, if you have completed the AAT* and want a degree in accounting, it is possible to accelerate the process on the basis of your prior knowledge.

    *or are most of the way through and will be finished by the end of the academic year.
  • brett316
    brett316 Feels At Home Registered Posts: 48
    As i said, CIMA/ACCA is postgraduate, degree is not. Yeah but the idea is that if you do a degree in accounting you carry it on through to work in the same field, thats like saying ok ill study maths and then go work as a journalist, why not just do journalism in the 1st place??

    Which is the point of doing it instead of CIMA/ACCA if you plan to carry on within the profession as its a professional qualification and better recognised with employers! As said many times before people who study accounting at degree have admitted they dont even understand basic double entry, maybe the most important part of accounting!

    To be honest degrees are getting less and less valuable now adays, a majority go to university. A lot of people I know with degrees cant even find jobs, and why? Because they dont have experience which in theory you will be getting in CIMA/ACCA as you tend to be doing relevant work experience too.
  • Bookworm55
    Bookworm55 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 479
    Alright, I'll admit that a bachelor's degree is not a postgraduate qualification, but I didn't claim it was. I still disagree with your claim that "CIMA/ACCA is like a postgraduate degree" though.
    you carry it on through to work in the same field, thats like saying ok ill study maths and then go work as a journalist, why not just do journalism in the 1st place??

    Having a degree opens different doors and gives access to different opportunities. That's all I was trying to say.

    If you get to the end of a degree and decide you hate the subject you've been studying, it's easier to transfer that to a different industry than if you'd been doing a professional qualification.
    Which is the point of doing it instead of CIMA/ACCA ...

    I have never said 'instead of'. Only 'first' or 'as well'. I'll be graduating this summer and doing one of the CCAB qualifications.
    people who study accounting at degree have admitted they dont even understand basic double entry, maybe the most important part of accounting!

    But, and just to play Devil's advocate for a minute, how much does that actually matter? With computerised accounting software, you don't actually need to be all that proficient with manual double-entry systems.

    Also, my ACCA-qualified former manager was useless at double-entry too, so don't think it's just a degree-based problem.
    A lot of people I know with degrees cant even find jobs, and why? Because they dont have experience

    I'll accept that. Having experience is very useful. But so is knowing what you're doing from a theoretical standpoint.

    To take an extreme example, I hope that next time I'm in hospital my surgeon is properly qualified in medicine and biology, not just someone who's pretty handy with a knife!
  • mark057
    mark057 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 354
    Just been reading all the comments with interest.

    Is the AAT NVQ 4 really a degree standard level of accountancy?

    I've heard that before but was not sure if it was true or not.

    If so, I don't think AAT Technicians get the recognition they deserve in the marketplace really.

    What does anybody else think?
  • From what I have gathered, the AAT level 4 is the equivalent of the 1st year of an undergraduate (BA / BSc) degree.

    Completion of CIMA managerial level is the equivalent of an undergraduate (BSc / BA with honours) degree.

    Completion of CIMA strategic level and TOPCIMA is the equivalent of a postgraduate (MA / MSc) degree.

    I think AAT graduates are greatly undervalued in the work place. :thumbdown:
  • Bookworm55
    Bookworm55 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 479
    Is the AAT NVQ 4 really a degree standard level of accountancy?
    I've heard that before but was not sure if it was true or not.

    I do not believe they are the same thing at all. I speak with experience as someone who is an AAT full member and in my last year at uni. Specifically, I'm in the revising-for-final-exams stage, so I've covered all the material. There were several technical points which I covered at AAT which did not appear until the second (or even third) years.

    There are still technical matters which were covered in more detail at AAT than I have at university. Particularly group accounts and accounting for VAT or price changes, which have not received all that much attention.

    There are large amounts of accounting theory which were not covered at the AAT at all. Contingent approaches to management accounting, Jonson and Kaplan's Relevance Lost, Watts and Zimmerman's Positive Accounting Theory, Mautz and Sheraf's Philosophy of Auditing, considering the 'why' of international standards rather than the 'how', that sort of thing.

    This is because, as I have said, one is a professional course and one is an academic course.
    From what I have gathered, the AAT level 4 is the equivalent of the 1st year of an undergraduate (BA / BSc) degree.
    Completion of CIMA managerial level is the equivalent of an undergraduate (BSc / BA with honours) degree.
    Completion of CIMA strategic level and TOPCIMA is the equivalent of a postgraduate (MA / MSc) degree.

    In my opinion, the first one is right in broad terms. They are roughly equivalent, more so in difficulty, less so in scope.

    The second... I think you have misunderstood what a bachelors degree with honours is. Hardly anyone does an Ordinary Degree; virtually all are Honours Degrees.
    But broadly, I think I see where you're coming from. I've checked, and my degree would grant me exemptions from four of the six Managerial papers. (P1,P2,P7 and P8). I would suspect that a Bachelors degree in accounting and CIMA Managerial level are broadly equivalent in terms of difficulty and material covered. Incidentally, ACCA is even closer- I can claim exemptions from ALL NINE Professional-level papers!

    However, I would expect there to be differences in what is actually covered because they each have their own focus. I think this would be more pronounced comparing an academic versus professional qualification than two competing professional ones.

    The third point... I think they're getting too far apart. They're just too different by that point for meaningful comparisons.
    I think AAT graduates are greatly undervalued in the work place.

    Maybe. I'm an AAT full member myself, and I've had to explain what that means to far too many people.
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,071
    Don Juan wrote: »
    From what I have gathered, the AAT level 4 is the equivalent of the 1st year of an undergraduate (BA / BSc) degree.
    :

    Agreed.
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