Help regarding grammar

Cullen

I believe it is bad grammar to commence a sentence with

"As you know......"

Am I mistaken? Is this acceptable? I would appreciate some advice.

claudialowe

If they know, why tell them again??????

Claudia

Cullen

Yes, I think that too. Am I confusing style with grammar?

CJC

I would say that it's clichéd, stylistically impoverished and highly irritating but not grammatically incorrect.

CJC

Cullen wrote: »

Am I confusing style with grammar?

Yes :001_smile:

Stan Bown

As you know

As you know, as you know can sound a bit patronising. Probably best to avoid unless you work in the debt collection section of a council tax department.

Cullen

Thanks for that. My boss has a woeful habit of editing my letters (anal I know) and if a letter goes out with my name on it, I would just like to make sure it is grammatically correct. I suppose I don't want to look stupid. I think I may enroll on an English Language refresher course................

Stan Bown

This is an invaluable little book. Well worth £5.99, if you've got it to spare.

Oxford Guide to Plain English
Second Edition
Martin Cutts
Price: £5.99 (Paperback)
ISBN-13: 978-0-19-923345-8
Publication date: 23 August 2007

blobbyh

Cullen wrote: »

I believe it is bad grammar to commence a sentence with

"As you know......"

Am I mistaken? Is this acceptable? I would appreciate some advice.

Others may not agree but there are occasions where I can see you might legitimately wish to start a sentence with this, such as reinforcing a point previously made to someone, possibly verbally. I'd probably phrase it morelike "As you are already aware..."

While spelling will always remain important, I get peed off with the "grammar police" who spend so much time correcting others over grey areas where it can be hard to know what's grammatically right and what's wrong. We're also told that you can't start sentences with 'But' and 'And' but many do and who am I to correct them?

I heard someone say on the radio a while ago that 3 out of 5 English words are now spelt incorrectly. Since our language is constantly evolving with variations of new words replacing the old ones, we have to accept that there are sometimes better, more logical ways to spell certain words. Anyone ever read Chaucer? What a pain in the a**e to read and if we were to never spell words in alternative ways, we'd still be stuck speaking and writing dark age English!

So my own take is that if you say it, then you can write it - as long as you spell it correctly in the current context of the time!

Poodle

Spelling and grammar have never one of my strong points, but I am always really careful with client letters. I find email tends to become 'more informal' if you like.

I once worked in an 'academic' environment and whenever I sent out a memo from the accounts department I just sat and waited for the comments.

My reply would always be the same... "Did you understand what I was trying to say?"

Poodle

Cullen

Thanks Stan, I have ordered this book from Amazon so this should see the end of my grammar issues.

I dont mind making my own grammatical errors but when my boss sticks his oar in, I feel that the letter never sounds right somehow. He frequently does start his sentences with And and But, I did try to argue with him about it but he insisted so I issued the letter in his name not mine.

I know what Poodle went through.Everytime I send out an email , letter or memo to the staff, if anyone can find fault or any reason to misinterpret the meaning I get a backlash. I think perhaps I should just boldy go, splitting infinitives. And starting sentences with conjunctions, carelessly confusing syntax. I can be such a rebel.

M20

Surely starting a sentence with 'As you know' is presumptious. How does the author know that the recipient knows? I'd start with 'You may already be aware' which means that the author isn't 100% sure that the recipient knows but there is a possibility that he/she does.

I grudgingly admit that starting a sentence with 'But' or 'And' is okay in this age of lazy speak and writing, but these words were never intended to start a sentence.

Cullen

My brand new guide to Plain English has arrived and you can start a sentence with But! What's more, this is something I had never thought of, ending a sentence with a preposition is "feeble".

It also suggests that the active voice is favoured.

Oh heck, this is harder than I thought.

blobbyh

M20 wrote: »

I grudgingly admit that starting a sentence with 'But' or 'And' is okay in this age of lazy speak and writing, but these words were never intended to start a sentence.

Maybe not, but English is a constantly evolving language and these two words are very commonly used in everyday speech to begin sentences with. And if you can say it - then as far as I'm concerned - you can write it!

Spelling is always more important than grammar anyway; at least with spelling there are commonly accepted right and wrong ways of forming words whereas forming complex sentences correctly is often just a matter of opinion. Or should it be correctly forming complex sentences?!

Cullen

I have checked my Oxford Guide to Plain English, and I can definitively say splitting an infinitive is acceptable if you use it as a strategy to emphasise a point. The other point is that there are two types of adverb, verb-phrase adverbs such as Blobby's use of correctly and sentence adverbs that indicate the writers attitude. Understandably I am using the second type in this sentence.
This book is brilliant, it has cleared up quite a few points that I have struggled over. Thanks Stan!

System

grammar question

In regards to grammar and style, does anyone know of links to websites containing advice on grammar and style of writing/speaking?

thanks for your help

lessci

If anyone starts to pick holes in your use of grammer, fend them off with, "Just because it isn't standard english doesn't mean it's wrong", I studied A Level English Language back in 19 something! Which wasn't creative writing etc, but how English was formed, how we learn it etc, and the one thing I will alwayus remember is that what is perceived as "Coreect" English, both with written and accent are know as Standard English and Received pronouncation. English is a contantly evolving language with new words absorbed from other languages all the time, so why shouldn't it's grammer evolve as well?

CJC

Well, yes.. but then again...

Deer Kustomer,

Overdue ur acount is. Wot u gonna do bout it?

Urs Trooly...

PS. Just because it isn't standard english doesn't mean it's wrong.

Hmmm.

Dean

CJC wrote: »

Well, yes.. but then again...

Quote:
Deer Kustomer,

Overdue ur acount is. Wot u gonna do bout it?

Urs Trooly...

PS. Just because it isn't standard english doesn't mean it's wrong.




Hmmm.

I've had clients' write to me like that! :laugh:

Though, as professionals, it should be absolutely forbidden!!!

Regards

Dean

Cullen

It is a sticky minefield, isn't it? A poorly written letter reflects on the author and sends a very strong message regarding the writer's professionalism, intellect, subject knowledge etc.
I can really recommend the book Stan advised me to buy.

Here's to a well constructed sentence!