Advice from Steve following a PM

peugeot

I've had a PM today from a student who has read my thread with the PQ Mag article in it and I feel I have to do something to turn (what I consider) a negative into a positive. I won't go into the details of it but the student concerned is very upset about failing and I advised him what to do - and I feel I should pass the advice on to others.

I understand there are students who have failed various papers such as DFS, PEV (especially), ECR etc. I also understand various appeals have gone in to the AAT about the results. To be entirely honest (and I say this sincerely), I really do not expect the AAT to change an exam result. For the students who have had their results changed as a result of an appeal, they are most definitely in the (extreme) minority (I've also been in talks with a tutor about this) - but I would say the chances of changing an unsuccessful to a successful is very slim, if not bordering onto remote. I have to be entirely honest, the chances are you are going to be told the marks are correct and you will be given feedback as to where you went wrong in the exam.

I told the student who PM'd me to forget about the results now for various reasons:

• You can't do anything about it
• An appeal, may, change the results but the chances are it won't
• December is not that far off
• It's a six month delay
• During an appeal the papers are not remarked, they are reviewed.
• At tech level it is too late to give up - you've come this far - carry on
• By the time you get back to studying you will have forgotten about this weeks anxieties

This is the advice I would give to everyone on here who has been unsuccessful this week. I know students have taken additional time off work, have worked hard and gave their best in the exam - but the chances of turning an unsuccessful into a sucessful are not as great as the chances of passing in December. Those that failed should view themselves as having a good head start against those that have passed their previous papers and are attempting technician papers this time round.

Kind regards
Steve

cornflower

i think I was the student steve was referencing to in his thread. I sat DFS this time and i thought I had passed it beecause everything balanced I got the standards right but it was maybe my section B went pear shaped I don't know.

All I know is that DFS is my last paper and I think appealing is just a waste of money because they are not gonna change their decision

we failed, we should get on with it move on. AAT are not going to change their marking just because we think we should have paseed.

Carrie!:confused1:

umerali2003

thx for the advice steve !!!!!!!!!!!!! after considering a lot and after reading this post by steve i finally decided not 2 appeal ........... i reserved my books today and will pick up on tuesday .... so i am making an early start rather then waiting for 4 weeks 2 get a review

peugeot

Sorry Carrie/Cornflower it wasn't you I was referring to - I was referring to the guy who PM'd me.

Carrie, please don't take it personally but I have had so many questions directed at me this week re DFS! I did send you a PM earlier in the week apologising for the delay.

Best wishes

Steve

Poppy

Remember though appealing is not just about getting a regrade as Steve points out most of us will be going through this again in December, wouldn't it be good to know where we went wrong.

Fingers crossed for all those like me who've had to put their lives on hold to go through this all over again

Good luck

:thumbup:

NBB

Poppy wrote: »

Remember though appealing is not just about getting a regrade as Steve points out most of us will be going through this again in December, wouldn't it be good to know where we went wrong.

Fingers crossed for all those like me who've had to put their lives on hold to go through this all over again

Good luck

:thumbup:

I agree Poppy, this was my second attempt of doing PEV, I also appealed in December for PEV & PCR. My outcome of PCR came back successful and that they had undervalued my paper (which I did think was absolutely terrible of them to say that, I mean how can you "undervalue a paper??" but was pleased with my result)

PEV result stayed the same but I got feedback on the section I failed and I was marked down for minor things on my reports like one comment I got was "although you made several valid comments, You did not provide a header"

In June I took on board the examiner's comments I received back in December and made sure I put all headers for all reports/ memo's/ even at the top of my tables and workings I had put £000's/ kgs/ tonnes/ hours etc, I felt I had done enough to pass giving consideration to 2.2 task but I did attempt the question to my best ability and did not leave bits out.

All i can say is to appeal as you want to know exactly what you got wrong in section 2 and if I am still not happy I will take this to the next stage. as there are students in my class who did not attend most classes, struggled and themselves cannot beleive that they passed!!!!

welshwizard

That's a good point by NBB - if they say write a memo or report then actually do the To: From: Date: Subject: because they give marks for each and that can make a huge difference. I was told this by someone who knows someone who is taugt by an ex- marker.

NBB

peugeot wrote: »

I've had a PM today from a student who has read my thread with the PQ Mag article in it and I feel I have to do something to turn (what I consider) a negative into a positive. I won't go into the details of it but the student concerned is very upset about failing and I advised him what to do - and I feel I should pass the advice on to others.

I understand there are students who have failed various papers such as DFS, PEV (especially), ECR etc. I also understand various appeals have gone in to the AAT about the results. To be entirely honest (and I say this sincerely), I really do not expect the AAT to change an exam result. For the students who have had their results changed as a result of an appeal, they are most definitely in the (extreme) minority (I've also been in talks with a tutor about this) - but I would say the chances of changing an unsuccessful to a successful is very slim, if not bordering onto remote. I have to be entirely honest, the chances are you are going to be told the marks are correct and you will be given feedback as to where you went wrong in the exam.

I told the student who PM'd me to forget about the results now for various reasons:

• You can't do anything about it
• An appeal, may, change the results but the chances are it won't
• December is not that far off
• It's a six month delay
• During an appeal the papers are not remarked, they are reviewed.
• At tech level it is too late to give up - you've come this far - carry on
• By the time you get back to studying you will have forgotten about this weeks anxieties

This is the advice I would give to everyone on here who has been unsuccessful this week. I know students have taken additional time off work, have worked hard and gave their best in the exam - but the chances of turning an unsuccessful into a sucessful are not as great as the chances of passing in December. Those that failed should view themselves as having a good head start against those that have passed their previous papers and are attempting technician papers this time round.

Kind regards
Steve

Sorry Steve, but I disagree with your post. This was my second attempt of doing PEV, I also appealed in December for PEV & PCR. My outcome of PCR came back successful and that they had undervalued my paper (which I did think was extremely unsatisfactory of them to say that, I mean how can an examiner "undervalue a paper that are allegedly rigorously marked and checked and subject to stringent monitoring procedures??" but was pleased with my result so thought no more of it)

PEV result stayed the same but I got feedback on the section I failed and I was marked down for minor things on my reports like one comment I got was "although you made several valid comments, You did not provide a header"

In June I took on board the examiner's comments I received back in December and made sure I put all headers for all reports/ memo's/ even at the top of my tables and workings I had put £000's/ kgs/ tonnes/ hours etc, I felt I had done enough to pass giving consideration to 2.2 task but I did attempt the question to my best ability and did not leave bits out.

All i can say is to appeal as you want to know exactly what you got wrong in section 2 and if I am still not happy I will take this to the next stage. as there are students in my class who did not attend most classes, struggled and themselves cannot beleive that they passed!!!!

peugeot

Hi NBB,

My post was relating to the "majority" of appeals and only a slim minority (if any) will ever get overturned - I think your case is considerably rare and students should not really base a decision to appeal purely on that outcome - see PQ article on previous thread where chief examiner says "marking errors are extremely rare" .

I was also prompted to post the thread because I understand that the AAT will not take into consideration a "badly worded question" which seems to be where all the appeals are being derived from. The AAT are saying that this issue has already been taken into account before the marking process.

Kind regards
Steve

NBB

peugeot wrote: »

Hi NBB,

My post was relating to the "majority" of appeals and only a slim minority (if any) will ever get overturned - I think your case is considerably rare and students should not really base a decision to appeal purely on that outcome - see PQ article on previous thread where chief examiner says "marking errors are extremely rare" .

I was also prompted to post the thread because I understand that the AAT will not take into consideration a "badly worded question" which seems to be where all the appeals are being derived from. The AAT are saying that this issue has already been taken into account before the marking process.

Kind regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I understand the reasons you are trying not to get students hopes up over a badly worded question. There are a few students who did struggle with the 2.2 task but felt they had answered to a satisfied standard apposed to students who were successful and did not attempt the question?? What I am encouraging students to do is wait until the chief assessors report comes out take a read of his/her comments and then decide.

I do appreciate your encouragement for us to move on but when you say my case is “considerably rare" this may be due to a “slim minority" of students appealing in December.

My main regret is that I did not challenge the outcome of my script being undervalued, how many other scripts did that examiner mark and undervalue?? Was any other scripts pulled back which had an unsuccessful outcome to check for the examiners overall competence and consistency??

I have total respect for all examiners’ Steve, but you must understand how I have lost confidence in the system.

peugeot

Hi NBB,

Of course you will have lost confidence - who wouldn't? I have also said the same as you in previous threads to wait until the examiner reports come out and then decide, but I can't help but feel some people are appealing just because a question was badly worded. I think just basing an appeal on that alone, is not worth appealing as the AAT don't seem to be accepting that anyway. Myadvice here is to move on - December is not far away at all.

I think if students GENUINELY feel they have suffered an injustice, then of course they should appeal. I do think though that some may suffer a double blow if the appeal does not go their way so my thread was to just make people ask themselves if they have substantiated grounds for appeal - rather than just a question may have been badly worded. My intention was to save students from suffering a "double blow".

Best regards
Steve

NBB

Thanks for your advice Steve,

I'm sure i can speak on behalf of every student on here that your help and support has been excellent on this forum.

Kindest Regards
Nbb

cornflower

i agree.:001_smile:

steve do you have any advise how I can get through DFS in december. This is my only exam left and i am desperate to move on to do ACCA.

Any help would be great.

Carrie x

peugeot

Hi Carrie,

My advice for DFS? This is what I suggest:

Accounting Standards
Most students fear DFS because of the sheer number of accounting standards they have to learn. At the last count there were 22 out of 36 standards examinable at AAT. You need a basic and broad knowledge of the examinable ones. A lot of articles I have written re the standards can be found at http://www.accountancystudents.co.uk/cms/news/headlines/C5/
- these are freely available and you should read them to develop your understanding.

Section B
Section B in DFS is usually a comparison of 2 companies and you have to write a report which normally involves calculating various ratios. Students tend to neglect section B because they are digressed into the accounting standards. You need to work on ratio calculations and develop your understanding of them because you are also asked to comment on what the ratios are telling you. Don't get bogged down in accounting standards and leave section B - remember competence has to be achieved in BOTH sections.

Study now
Classes may not have started but that doesn't stop you from studying now. Dig out those books and refresh your memory. Don't study for 3 months and then do revision - do a 'mix' of study and revision i.e. after a study period do a question on the subject. This will help you decide if you need more study in a certain area. If you struggle with a subject, concentrate on that topic - don't just practice topics you are comfortable with - concentrate more on those you don't feel happy with (lots of students ask me about cash flow statements) if you don't like them, then practice lots of them.

Technical summaries
For each examinable standard, write down the key points for each i.e. IAS 2 (Inventory) write down: lower of cost and net realisable value. Key points are much better than rote learning each standard as some of the standards are complex and vast.

Format
When asked to write a report - write a report, not a letter or a memo. If you are asked to write a letter - then write a letter. This may seem obvious but marks are lost when you fail to comply with instruction.

Handwriting
If you suffer from bad handwriting, then slow your writing down. You need to demonstrate an element of professionalism in the exam.

Workings
I am obsessed with this! You must ALWAYS ALWAYS show your workings, on a separate page of the answer booklet. If you are doing a consolidated balance sheet (statement of financial position) and you get a figure completely wrong - the marker cannot award you any marks. You can pick up marks for an incorrect answer as long as you show your approach.

Finally
Don't do too much revision/study in one period. Develop a timetable from now until the exam and stick to it religiously. Longer periods of short study prove more effective than 'cramming' and it reduces the stress you put yourself under.

Read my articles (there will be more going up on the accountancystudents website in the next few weeks) as these try to make the accounting standards more understandable than the text book (which just replicates the official standards).

There is an excellent book written by Clare Finch (a link is also on the AS website) which you should buy (A Students Guide to International Financial Reporting). It costs £25 and would be a good investment for your studies.

Good luck to everyone for their studies and feel free to contact me if you need help.

Regards
Steve

cornflower

Wow thanks steve. I feel better already!

I have printed all your articles off and have started to read them. They already make me understand things like leases better, can you tell me when the next one comes out. I seem to struggle with consolidation of a balance sheet and with the reserves but hopefully I will get my head round that.

You really should be a tutor!:thumbup:

carrie x:001_smile:

peugeot

Hiya,

They're done monthly,but I have agreed to do a couple of extra ones in Sept - the next one (should be on the site by Friday) is a detailed consolidation article (bal sheet and P&L), which you will need to read. It outlines the method of consolidation and features a subsidiary and an associate - definitely worth a read for section A as you could get either a sub or an assoc -or both!!!

I agree leases can be a grey area. The thing to look out for in IAS 17 is whether 'risks and rewards' have been transferred and what features are usually present in a finance lease (all covered in my article). Also look out for whether payments are in arrears or in advance as this will affect the overall calculation of the closing balance (this is a common thing to get wrong!!)

Steve

mags10000

His Steve
I am always interested to read your replies and as I have failed DFS for the second time, I was wondering if there was any tips that you could give me as far as reconciliation statements and cashflow statements to make it any easier. I don't know how I manage it but both times I have passed section 1 and failed section 2 even though when I go into the exam room I always have a mental block when it comes to the cashflow statement and the reconciliation statement.
Any tips would be much appreciated.
Mags10000

peugeot

Hi Mags,

You're definitely not the only one that suffers mental blocks.

Have a look at: http://www.accountancystudents.co.uk/cms/professional_bodies/aat_read/where_did_all_the_money_go/

This article is written from the perspective of FRS 1 rather than IAS 7 but the principle is the same.

In terms of the reconciliation (note 1) this is what I can advise you:

• the reconciliation strips out the effects of non-cash items such as depreciation, accruals etc
• during the reconciliation outflows of cash such as increases in stock, increases in debtors are always deducted from operating profit
• inflows of cash i.e. if debtors have decreased or creditors have increased then ADD it to profit

During the reconciliation think about the actual effect on the cash - if debtors increase this means less cash has been collected, thus an 'outflow' so we deduct this - if debtors decrease we have received more cash in so an 'inflow' so we add.

I will be putting up an article this week on accountancystudents that involves an entire section A scenario so this will help you. You can also ask me any questions on here (no question is a daft question), but if you feel you need to ask something but don't want to post a Q on here, email me at:

steve.collings@accountancystudents.co.uk

I will reply to your query within 24 hours.

Best wishes
Steve

mags10000

peugeot wrote: »

Hi Mags,

You're definitely not the only one that suffers mental blocks.

Have a look at: http://www.accountancystudents.co.uk/cms/professional_bodies/aat_read/where_did_all_the_money_go/

This article is written from the perspective of FRS 1 rather than IAS 7 but the principle is the same.

In terms of the reconciliation (note 1) this is what I can advise you:

• the reconciliation strips out the effects of non-cash items such as depreciation, accruals etc
• during the reconciliation outflows of cash such as increases in stock, increases in debtors are always deducted from operating profit
• inflows of cash i.e. if debtors have decreased or creditors have increased then ADD it to profit

During the reconciliation think about the actual effect on the cash - if debtors increase this means less cash has been collected, thus an 'outflow' so we deduct this - if debtors decrease we have received more cash in so an 'inflow' so we add.

I will be putting up an article this week on accountancystudents that involves an entire section A scenario so this will help you. You can also ask me any questions on here (no question is a daft question), but if you feel you need to ask something but don't want to post a Q on here, email me at:

steve.collings@accountancystudents.co.uk

I will reply to your query within 24 hours.

Best wishes
Steve

Hi Steve

Thank you very much for your quick reply.
I think I understand where I go wrong in the exam after reading your reply.

I will keep practicing and hope that I pass this time in December.

I also look forward to reading your articles on the subject in the future.
Once again thank you ever so much for your time, I really appreciate it.
Mags

cornflower

Mags,

steve's advice and his articles got me through an auditing simulation which I was really having problems with. our college constantly changed tutors and the ones we got werent brilliant.

I didnt read steves articles before I did DFS in June, I failed also but i'll definately be reading them before december.

steve you rock.:thumbup:

carrie xx