What is a fair salary??

galaxy

Just after other peoples opinions/advice please!

I currently handle all the finance/accounts for the company I work for. It is a fairly small company ( around 50 employees ) and I am paid just under £19,000 at the moment ( I live in the north east england if that helps )

So my duties involve credit control, purchase ledger, sales ledger, VAT and Tax returns, purchasing, preparing accounts up to TB etc down to things like building maintenance and repairs ( I get lumbered with alot! )

I am studying towards the AAT so don't have my qualifications yet, but have been doing this job for almost 4 years now and to be honest I think I am being underpaid for what I do.

My boss told me last week that they are wanting to change the company from a partnership to a limited company which will mean they need a company secretary which they have asked me to do as well as my current responsibilities ( I'm not entirely sure what the job will involve to be honest ). If I decide to go ahead and take them up on the offer what do you think is a reasonable salary to ask for? I was thinking somewhere in the region of £25,000 does anyone think thats unreasonable?

My boss has already said that he hasn't the time to do it so I'm the only choice, so im assuming if I won't take it they'll have to employ someone else to do it which would cost the company even more


Any opinions would be great!

A-Vic

Man i could cry - any jobs going at your firm because your current salary sounds very Very good

I currently do the same as you and a lot more too including Payroll for 41 companies VAT for the same Run an office and just started full accounts from TB and only on 13,500.

Cullen

I too work for a SME employing just over 50, annual turnover circa 10 million.

My title is Company Accountant and my role is mainly management. I am paid more than you, but my salary reflects my experience, my seniority and my responsibilities. You perhaps may wish to compare your authority and responsibilities to my situation.

Regarding becoming a Company Secretary, I believe there are quite a few considerations to make. You may wish to post this as a separate query on the members forum as I understand it is not a role to take lightly as you may be held responsible in law for certain things. I can't say I know much about this, other than to advise you to make sure you understand exactly what all the associated duties etc are associated in this role. Or, try posting on this forum:

http://www.swarb.co.uk/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=9670ae139542a7afe4668bc81b78a136

I would always ask for more money if your duties are increased. Ask in such a way that you emphasise all your acheivements, all your responsibilities etc and do it in a non confrontational manner. Go for it!!

galaxy

Ouch!

Well the way I see it I've looked around at local jobs in my area and for things like a credit controller the salary's are in the region of £16,000 which fair enough is less than I'm being paid at the moment but is just one aspect of my job.

I guess just being in the position I am I get to see what everyone in the company is earning and I get frustrated that people like team leaders are being paid more than me, when the way I see it I have alot more responsibility than they do.

galaxy

Cullen wrote: »

I too work for a SME employing just over 50, annual turnover circa 10 million.

My title is Company Accountant and my role is mainly management. I am paid more than you, but my salary reflects my experience, my seniority and my responsibilities. You perhaps may wish to compare your authority and responsibilities to my situation.

Regarding becoming a Company Secretary, I believe there are quite a few considerations to make. You may wish to post this as a separate query on the members forum as I understand it is not a role to take lightly as you may be held responsible in law for certain things. I can't say I know much about this, other than to advise you to make sure you understand exactly what all the associated duties etc are associated in this role. Or, try posting on this forum:

http://www.swarb.co.uk/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=9670ae139542a7afe4668bc81b78a136

I would always ask for more money if your duties are increased. Ask in such a way that you emphasise all your acheivements, all your responsibilities etc and do it in a non confrontational manner. Go for it!!

I have spent some time looking into it and understand there will be some training involved. I am having a meeting soon with the CEO and partners to discuss it further so I hope to clear alot of my questions up then.

I am not a manager yet, but have been told that I will be promoted to manager next year but I still have alot of managerial responsibilities at the moment ( budgeting, cash flow, ensuring we meet targets etc )

blobbyh

Amendments to the Companies Act that came into force last year mean that company secretaries are no longer compulsory for private limited companies but voluntary, leaving it up to the individual organisations whether to appoint one or not;

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/companiesAct/implementations/apr2008.shtml

A-Vic

blobbyh wrote: »

Amendments to the Companies Act that came into force last year mean that company secretaries are no longer compulsory for private limited companies but voluntary, leaving it up to the individual organisations whether to appoint one or not;

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/companiesAct/implementations/apr2008.shtml

Funny enough was thinking the same thing

galaxy

blobbyh wrote: »

Amendments to the Companies Act that came into force last year mean that company secretaries are no longer compulsory for private limited companies but voluntary, leaving it up to the individual organisations whether to appoint one or not;

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/companiesAct/implementations/apr2008.shtml

Sorry probably should have said that although its not compulsory that they have a company secretary the partners and CEO decided they as a company needed a company secretary

Make sense?

Buff

galaxy wrote: »

I have spent some time looking into it and understand there will be some training involved. I am having a meeting soon with the CEO and partners to discuss it further so I hope to clear alot of my questions up then.

I am not a manager yet, but have been told that I will be promoted to manager next year but I still have alot of managerial responsibilities at the moment ( budgeting, cash flow, ensuring we meet targets etc )

Firstly, congratulations - you seem to have found a nice little company to work for. OK, you have all these responsibilities to handle, you're not the only one and you get paid more than some others do. Heed Cullen's advice re the Company Secretary Role - a few responsibilities a company secretary is given to monitor are

• Maintaining registers of directors and secretaries, shareholders, directors interests, charges and mortgages.
• Seeing that statutory documents are filed with the Registrar, at proper times, on appropriate forms.
• Providing shareholder with any meeting times, changes to meeting times (21 days notice for AGM, 14 days for other.), and must supply copies of the annual accounts 21 days before the AGM (Annual General Meeting).
• Copies of the resolutions and agreements must be sent to the Registrar.
• Official minute keeping of the director’s meetings
• Ensuring entitled parties (e.g. shareholders) have access to view various company documents. See the public can view the register of shareholders and that shareholders can view and get copies of meeting minutes.

as you can see, these are very important, especially filing with companies house. You could be stung with hefty charges for being late and this, on top of your current schedule sounds pretty impossible.

I think you should be well within your rights to ask for an increase in salary for the extra burden you are taking on, but you also have to be careful and understand that there are plenty of other people out there just waiting to pounce to take your place if you push it too far.

It is a fairly small company ( around 50 employees ), my duties involve credit control, purchase ledger, sales ledger, VAT and Tax returns, purchasing, preparing accounts up to TB etc.

Whilst I can see the various duties you undertake currently, I notice you only have 50 employees in the company, maybe this reflects the £19,000. I suppose if you were directly responsible for over 250 and then upwards of 1000 on an ad hoc basis then you sould see that salary increase a little.

down to things like building maintenance and repairs

erm, i'm sure that if your role is Company Accountant, then this part of your remit wouldn't be hard worded int oyour contract and as such i'm sure they wouldn't be able to force you to carry on doing it should you stop. That should free up some time.

I'm interested in knowing how you go on in your meeting - will you share?

Good luck for the future!

blobbyh

When you say building maintenance and repairs, do you mean you're also responsible for the facilities management of the premises (e.g. maintaining compliance with the increasing number of health & safety regs, writing risk assessments, organising first aid & fire training with the routine monitoring of equipment, dealing with contract companies etc) or less likely, you "pick up a trowel"?

If the former, then yes, you're underpaid as this is another role entirely and quite a large one for a company of 50 employees. I find it unlikely you do the latter but I might be wrong!

galaxy

Buff - I spent some time reading through various description of the roles, the only "shareholders" as such are the partners so I think this may make things slightly easier for me in some ways. But obviously I will have alot to learn!

I don't really have much choice in dealing with things like building maintenance ( which by the way I mean anything goes wrong, someone comes to me and I try to contact the appropriate person to come out and sort it! I'm useless at DIY so there's no way I go round fixing things! ) We don't employ a specific person to deal with that and I think the way they view it is it costs money to call someone out so therefore its my duty.

I also make sure we get annual health and safety checks, that the lifts are maintained, fire equipment is checked regularly, all insurances are up to date etc etc

I know its a small company but the salaries they pay some people are substantial, and I'm only being paid around £1000 more than the receptionist who I often see sitting with their feet up reading magazines which is sooo frustrating!! :cursing:

mark130273

dont complain !!!

full accounts from start to finish for a lot less !!! in the north west !!

Gianni

I am surprised that many people are suggesting that £19k for what you do is a fair salary. In my view you are grossly underpaid. I don't buy into the fact just because you don't have the qualification you cannot be paid accordingly, besides looking at the salary tables about £20k is average for someone who has the AAT qualification.

The only drawback is you do not complete the full management accounts - who does this and how much does it cost? To be fair though, by the sounds of it you wouldn't have the time anyway!

Finally I think your suggestion of £25k is about fair for what you do and if they want you to become the company secretary now is an ideal time to negotiate. I would before playing hard ball review the job market as not being from the North East I wouldn't know if the pay is lower in those parts!

Buff

I have just found this - it may be of use.. though it's 3 years out dated, take a look @ page 6 and the graph on the right hand side. It gives the North East average compared to the national average for the stages of AAT Starter to Accounts Manager.

On the bottom left hand side of page 6 is a nice informative table setting out min and max sal expectancy for each stage within north east to 2006.

http://www.nigelwright.com/_downloads/NW_North_East_Salary_Survey_Jan_07.pdf

Page 8 is also helpful, as this is the page I believe you would fall into - and seeing though you don't yet compile the management accounts, I would say you were more suited to Assistant Accountant and thus, you're actually on the average earnings. How old are you btw? I know this shouldn't matter, but it invariably does impact on your earnings.

galaxy

Gianni - I have looked into the market in my area and as with any other area salaries vary alot. I can't find anything that fully matches by job ( probably not surprisingly ) but after a quick look there are advertisements for credit controllers ( one part of my job ) £15,000 - £20,000, Accounts Assistant £18,000 - £20,000 which is why I think my pay is low looking at vacancies in the area

Buff - That looks interesting, I've had a look through and I have to say I slightly disagree that you think my job would be classed as assistant accountant as I feel my responsibilities are more than that, but even so the salarys stated are a few years old now so surely its acceptable to think they should have increased from that?

I know qualifications are important, but surely experience must count for something as well? Should I only expect to be getting a good pay once I have all my qualifications despite the fact I have been doing the job for years?

I am 24 by the way ( and unfortunately I do know that sometimes age makes a difference to these things )

Gem7321

What is your actual title per your contract?

And because of your age I assume your employer is paying for your AAT rather than being funded, so you must take that into account as well.

I agree that you should make negotiations if you accept the company secretary position, an increase in responsibility should result in an increase in reward. But I think £25,000 could be pushing it. But if they're planning on promoting you to manager next year I guess they'll be planning to give you a payrise then.

Buff

galaxy wrote: »

Buff - That looks interesting, I've had a look through and I have to say I slightly disagree that you think my job would be classed as assistant accountant as I feel my responsibilities are more than that, but even so the salarys stated are a few years old now so surely its acceptable to think they should have increased from that?

I know qualifications are important, but surely experience must count for something as well? Should I only expect to be getting a good pay once I have all my qualifications despite the fact I have been doing the job for years?

I am 24 by the way ( and unfortunately I do know that sometimes age makes a difference to these things )

I only class you in the Assitant Accountant bracket because you don't fully compile the management acounts. Saying you are further on in the chain that that is a lie. I agree that you do far more than what's required from other assistant accountants, but until you start completing tasks which other company accountants do then you don't really have an argument.

With regards to qualifications, they don't mean diddly squat in some parts. I have no accounting qualifications, but have 6 years on the job experience. I too am 24 years old and make in the region of £24k.

I think in this current climate though, pushing for pay rises may back-fire on you with many other companies deciding to freeze pay to ride the recession and making some workers take 4 days weeks etc.

Gianni

I would aim for £25k and perhaps look to settle at around 22k - 23k. I guess you need to think about your career prospects as well. This role may allow you to keep developing and eventually prepare the full management accounts. With this in mind, if they do allow this, they are taking a chance on someone who's never prepared a full set and is a "work in progress". It is after all their business, but once you've done it, you can not only command more at your existing work place but also everywhere else.

I have to admit my role is similar to yours but I do prepare the full management accounts as well as contribute to sales! I'm on 30k at the moment with staged increases as I pass CIMA exams. I had to play hardball to get to this level and was even leaving for another job until they eventually gave me what I wanted (one week before I was due to start another job!). What I'm trying to say is you can only negotiate hard if you have another job lined up else you are better going for a happy medium so be careful.