Mortgage Reference-AAT Qualification

MelanieM

Dear All,

I am really quite annoyed. I have done a Mortgage Reference for one of my clients for whom i prepare accounts for. I have had correspondence from the Mortgage provider saying that they do not accept my qualification for providing references.

This really annoys me, after years of training and 15 years experience it makes me wonder why I did it all!

Why do people/companies not recognise the AAT qualification as technically competent and of a high standard.

I now look incapable to my client, as they say that I need to get the accounts signed off by a "differently qualified" colleague (of whom i have none as i am a Sole Trader).

Rant over, sorry,

Mel

pinksponk

You would have thought that if your accounts are good enough for the Inland Revenue, it should be good enough for the mortgage provider.
No wonder you are miffed

deanshepherd

Which mortgage lender was it?

I have never had a problem signing mortgage references so I would be interested to know which bank has us black listed!!

I wonder if this is a new policy due to banks 'tightening up' their lending criteria..

Hasan.Ahmet

Mortgage reference-AAT qualification

Are we wondering whether there are institutions out there who due to their "tightening up of their lending criteria" may now be saying we'll no longer accept AAT qualifications when considering accounts for the purpose of lending.
I don't think so but very important to know precisely the nature of this and the lender.

Poodle

Hi

I would like to know who they are as well since I have never had a problem either, although I have not been providing such references for as long as Dean.

If it is a bank that has changed their policy it may also be worth running this by the AAT as well.

Poodle

MelanieM

Hi All,

The lender is Abbey, so quite a well known and large organisation!

Their actual response was ""unfortunately we do not accept your reference as we don't accept your qualification as per our underwriting criteria".

I haven't had to deal with them before, so am not sure if this is a new thing.

Mel

deanshepherd

Hmmm.. this is quite worrying. I am sure I have given references for Abbey in the past.

Definitely worth flagging this up with the Association.

newme

deanshepherd wrote: »

Hmmm.. this is quite worrying. I am sure I have given references for Abbey in the past.

Definitely worth flagging this up with the Association.

You are right..
anybody already reported it??

http://www.aat.org.uk/members/content/item1787/
At the bottom of the page
"Banks and building societies recognise AAT members in practice for preparing accounts for client mortgage applications"

T.C.

I have never had a problem with mortgage references, but not sure if I have dealt with the Abbey. Have you tried contacting them direct?

claudialowe

According to the list, which apparently is correct as at 12 March 2009, Abbey is NOT on the list (neither is Santander!).

The vast majority of other major lenders are on there - a total of 108.

To view the list, you have to log onto "myMIP" toolkit, and it is lurking near the bottom a click here to view the lenders list.

Don't hold your breath about the AAT getting back to you - I sent the CPD team two emails on Monday, got the standard response about getting back to you within 3 days, and still waiting (and I know that they have been read - because I have got the "read" receipts.) :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

Claudia

MelanieM

Thanks for pointing out the list Claudia, I hadn't seen that before.

Have emailed Membership Support and await a reply...

I have replied to Abbey asking what else can be done to process the application, but have not had a reply yet. I am just waiting for them to reply saying that the accounts will need to be signed off by a Chartered Accountant...(i take it that's what they mean by "differently qualified!).

awwallace22

Ive just had a form to complete 5 mintes ago! from Abbey confirming my clients income and basically where I have to sign it says "I confirm that I am an Associate/Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants/Charted Institute of Certified Accountants. And at the bottom of the form in bold letters it says" Unfortuntaely we will not be able to accept any amendments, qualifications or additions to this form from the applicants accountant"

It kinda makes me look stupid when I have to go back to my client and explain that I can not sign it. How infurriating

claudialowe

So a member of CIOT would not then be approved by Abbey :confused1:

What some lenders want in addition to our accounts is a copy of the tax return - in the somewhat mistaken belief that if HMRC don't think it is wrong, then it must be right

I do think that this is something that the AAT should be campaigning for on our behalf.

Claudia

Hasan.Ahmet

AAT Qualifications

You would've thought though, any campaign by the AAT on this front should have a very good chance of success because the AAT is supported by the chartered bodies. Otherwise it may be argued that they're falling short in their support of the AAT.

MelanieM

Well, I have a reply from the AAT, and basically it just says that Abbey aren't on the list of providers that accept AAT qualified-prepared accounts. Well that's not exactly very helpful! Nothing about what could be done next, or who I should contact at the AAT to discuss it or get assistance from.

No more contact from the Abbey either, so I shall wait and see. Was waiting to hear from them before telling my client that I'm not qualified to do it...

Mel

Ben

Mortgage Reference-AAT Qualification

I received a magazine "Practising Accountant" which is published by "Certified Public Accountants Association".
inviting me to join.
On P17 under the heading "Recognition" they're listing Abbey among the institution who they claim will accept accounts prepared by their members.

When it is said Abbey will not recognise AAT qualification for reference purpose is this same as saying that Abbey will not accept accounts prepared by AAT qualified accountant.
There is inconsistency here because I have not seen that ACPA are on the list of supervising bodies for MLR purposes.

I think we're all confident that the AAT is held in high regard within the profession so someone may care to point this out to Abbey

deanshepherd

Ben wrote: »

..so someone may care to point this out to Abbey

That someone should be the AAT.

It sounds like Melanie has had a poor response from membership services - time to take the issue higher up I think.

deanshepherd

Catherine Chamberlain (AAT President) has very kindly emailed me to say she has referred the matter to Adam Harper (Director of Professional Development).

I will let you know when I receive a response from him.

MelanieM

Thank you all for your replies (and agreement!), and thanks to Dean for contacting Catherine Chamberlain. I hope we can get a more constructive response from Adam Harper than I have had from the MIP Team.

I look forward to hearing any reply you get....

Many thanks

Monsoon

deanshepherd wrote: »

Catherine Chamberlain (AAT President) has very kindly emailed me to say she has referred the matter to Adam Harper (Director of Professional Development).

I will let you know when I receive a response from him.

Well done, thanks
Luckily my business partner is AFA so between the both of us we should be ok for mortgage refs, but the AAT do need to take this up with lenders who don't recognise us, so thanks Dean for doing the necessary, lets hope the AAT do the same!

deanshepherd

Latest update

Adam Harper contacted me to say that the AAT are aware of the issue with Abbey and are currently corresponding with them with a view to being recognised for mortgage reference purposes, particularly as Abbey had previously had a policy of recognising AAT members.

Negotiations are ongoing but there is no timescale or guarantee that things will change. In the mean time he suggests:

1) If you ask Abbey what information they need in the absence of a mortgage reference then SA302's from HMRC will usually suffice;

2) Alternatively you can seek for the reference to be signed off by a member of either ACCA or ICAEW at a fee to your client.

Poodle

deanshepherd wrote: »

1) If you ask Abbey what information they need in the absence of a mortgage reference then SA302's from HMRC will usually suffice;

Based on tax returns prepared by AAT's I presume:001_smile:

Very much appeciate you researching this for us all Dean

Poodle

claudialowe

Dean - thank you very much for your time and effort :thumbup:

Claudia

Monsoon

I've just got a form through from Abbey *sigh*

I must have skimmed the thread and missed the bit where they will only accept ACA/ACCA and strictly nothing else. How utterly disgraceful :thumbdown:

Claudia - what happened with yours in the end? Did you/ the client have to pay a chartered to sign it off or did HMRC documents suffice?

NeilH

Hi

This is a similar issues with CIMA and it's down to either the Companies Act or the Estate Agency Act, banks use either to guide their policies.

The Companies Act refers to ACCA and ACA (presumably for the purposes of statutory audit) so some bodies are only prepared to accept ACA/ACCA accounts even though the accounts themselves may have no connection to an audit and/or the ACA/ACCA preparing them may not be qualified as an auditor.

I think a lot of non-accountancy bodies (including professional trade bodies) have little understanding of what an accounting qualification means. I once read a posting on a forum from a self employed person who had been asked by her local tax office to submit audited accounts to back up a tax return issue. When she told them she doesn’t need/have an audit they told her she could audit them herself!!! :001_rolleyes:

Neil

claudialowe

Faerie - it wasn't me that had the problem - yet!!!!!!

Re Neil's comment about audited accounts it gets me as well, particularly Dragon's Den where they ask a company with a turnover of about a fiver what their last audited accounts show :thumbdown::thumbdown: I end up shouting at the telly.

Claudia

CLAREH

Faerie - Abbey will generally accept an SA302 as proof of income (no matter who completed the return).

I work for my partner who is an IFA and many of our self employed clients have "accountants" who have never sat an exam in their life. We find that some lenders will take references from them and others won't.

I find it annoying that people can set up in business and call themselves accountants, giving people advice on tax etc. and yet they have no qualifications at all, they don't have to prove they have any experience nor do they have to do CPD either.

Gill Gittings

Hi,

My husband was an underwriter at the Abbey a couple of years ago. The problem is that some banks do not recognise the AAT because it is not a chartered qualification. They will only ever accept signatories from those who are either ICAEW or ACCA qualified practitioners apparently because the general perception of the AAT is that it is still a junior qualification.

Makes it hardly worth studying for doesn't it?!