AAT to Uni

axl2derv

Has any members gone on to do a masters at uni after AAT?

deanshepherd

I did a first degree at Uni after AAT, not a masters though.

ademoore

CIMA recently got accredited as Masters Degree level, same number of 'points' awarded on completion, if it's the level you are seeking to attain, rather than specifically an MBA!

axl2derv

With CIMA taking 3 years and an MBA 1 year, I am looking to do the MBA. I can't find an employer to fund CIMA so I am planning to do the Masters followed by a PhD. When I come out of Uni in 4 years time, the jobs market should be better than present.

I have spoke to CIMA and an MBA gives exemption to 4 of the 6 Managerial Level exams. They also stated that more exemptions are possible with a PhD based in Managerial Accounting.

deanshepherd

I am not sure I understand your logic.

If you are going to do CIMA eventually anyway then why not fund it yourself now?

Funding CIMA is surely cheaper than funding an MBA, depending where you choose to study of course.

axl2derv

Hi Dean,

I am thinking of the time frame. It is pointless studying CIMA at the moment if I can't get a job in Managerial Accounting along side my study.

With the market being slim and the competition being high, I need to set myself a side from the competition. Holding an MBA and PhD in Managerial Accounting will do that.

Most people either do a BSc or AAT and move on to CIMA then stop. By going that step further you stand out from the competition.

I can finish off the remaining CIMA exams after Uni.

Bluewednesday

I think you'll find that with little experience but a wealth of academic qualifications - you won't actually be an attractive employee unless you stay in academia

axl2derv

I still plan to work part time while studying. Even doing CIMA, it's worth nothing if you can't get a job that gives you managerial accounting experience.

NeilH

Hi

Im not quite sure I understand the logic either.

Firtsly most MBA's of any worth will take more than one year, unless a fast track program. Also, a good MBA usually requires senior management experience as an entry requirement (in addition to an undergrad degree) and/or requires you to be able to apply the MBA course to a senior management environment in which you work.

An MBA and PhD may make you stand out from the crowd on an entry level position, but having an MBA and PhD without the experience wont necessarily push you up the job ladder. You say you dont want to study CIMA without getting the experience because it would be worthless, but the MBA/PhD wont do much good if you cant do a job in the first place.

axl2derv

NeilH wrote: »

Hi

Im not quite sure I understand the logic either.

Firtsly most MBA's of any worth will take more than one year, unless a fast track program. Also, a good MBA usually requires senior management experience as an entry requirement (in addition to an undergrad degree) and/or requires you to be able to apply the MBA course to a senior management environment in which you work.

An MBA and PhD may make you stand out from the crowd on an entry level position, but having an MBA and PhD without the experience wont necessarily push you up the job ladder. You say you dont want to study CIMA without getting the experience because it would be worthless, but the MBA/PhD wont do much good if you cant do a job in the first place.

University degrees have never meant more than one thing anyway. It proves you have the ability to learn.

CIMA being a vocational qualification proves you have the ability in the workplace but doing CIMA while being a purchase ledger clerk (for example) is about as useful as being unemployed. I cannot get a position that is involved with managerial accounts as there is too much competition.

Even though I wish to train as a management accountant, I only wish to use it as a passing job as I wish to extend on to senior management.

You will find that most CEO’s will hold a PhD as they are considered experts in their field.

Even if I come out of Uni with a PhD, I should only have one years worth of CIMA exams to complete.

I still plan to stay within accounts (part time) while I study so I am still gaining experience.

Hopefully after the masters, I will be able to get a part time job within managerial accounting.

Gem7321

It sounds like you have already made your mind up so why are you asking for advice?

axl2derv

I wasn't.

I was asking if anybody else had gone to uni after AAT.

deanshepherd

axl2derv wrote: »

CIMA being a vocational qualification proves you have the ability in the workplace but doing CIMA while being a purchase ledger clerk (for example) is about as useful as being unemployed.

What a strange thing to say? I would say a CIMA qualified purchase ledger clerk has a much better chance of getting a career in management accounting than someone with an MBA/PhD and no experience.

axl2derv wrote: »

You will find that most CEO’s will hold a PhD as they are considered experts in their field.

I have not looked at the statistics any more than you have but I would think that most CEO's do not hold a PhD at all. Their expertise coming from experience not from University, aside from those given honorary doctorates of course.

My advice would be to speak to people who are doing the job you want to be doing and ask them how best to get there.

axl2derv

Thanks Dean.

University and a PhD have been on my list of things to do since I was 16.

I still wish to do CIMA but it's not that important for me to do it right now.

I still have 41 years of my working life ahead of me (if not more) so I really need to do these things while I am still young.

I plan to have CIMA complete before I am 30 though which is still possible after 4 years of Uni.

NeilH

axl2derv wrote:

You will find that most CEO’s will hold a PhD as they are considered experts in their field.

Having worked for PLCs (and having worked for companies that were suppliers or customers of major PLCs, I'd have to disagree with you on this point - in fact the CEO (and CFO) of my last company were qualified to Chartered Accountant.

axl2derv wrote:

Even if I come out of Uni with a PhD, I should only have one years worth of CIMA exams to complete.

Hopefully after the masters, I will be able to get a part time job within managerial accounting.

But you will be lacking expeirence for both a senior role and for your CIMA qualification. I appreciate the merits of and MBA and a PhD, but without the experience to go with them, before and during your studies, I fear that you wont be able to realise the desire to become a management accountant, being pipped to the post by people who can already hit the ground running based on experience.

If you dont currently have a degree, why not do an undergraduate BSc/BA, enter the job market in 3 years time on a graduate route and get the experience and training from there on in and take the MBA module exemptions available to CIMA members when you are qualified?

Neil

axl2derv

Doing a BA / BSc makes AAT a complete waste of time, since a BSc and an AAT graduate both hit CIMA at the same level.

The minimum criteria for the MSc is a 2.2 BSc or similar qualification with practical experience. With the AAT qualification and my 7 years practical experience, I am more competent than a BSc graduate.

I might as well do an MSc for one year and hit the big companies as a postgraduate. That would put me above the graduates who apply to them.

deanshepherd

One of my clients is a recruiter who works in the graduate market and he says one of the biggest problems candidates face is that what they 'perceive' will be important to a potential future employer bears little resemblance to what the employers are actually after.

I think there are a lot of assumptions in your comments that may not actually run true with your potential employers.

Take alook at some large employer's websites and find out an email address of someone in HR. I am sure they will be only too happy to let you know what qualifications/experience they actually value.

NeilH

axl2derv wrote: »

With the AAT qualification and my 7 years practical experience, I am more competent than a BSc graduate.

I might as well do an MSc for one year and hit the big companies as a postgraduate. That would put me above the graduates who apply to them.

I tend to agree with you on the AAT+experience versus a graduate, in terms of competency, although a graduate recruiter may think other wise depending on the role etc. The MSc and then applying for graduate positions seem sensible but unfortunately AAT + experience may not gain entry to the MSc unless it is senior experience, your previous posts indicate that it isn't.

axl2derv

NeilH wrote: »

I tend to agree with you on the AAT+experience versus a graduate, in terms of competency, although a graduate recruiter may think other wise depending on the role etc. The MSc and then applying for graduate positions seem sensible but unfortunately AAT + experience may not gain entry to the MSc unless it is senior experience, your previous posts indicate that it isn't.

I've applied so all I can do is wait.

Prashil

hi people im just wondering im on my intermediate and was thinking its 160 ucas which is low for uni cos osme unis r lookin for minimum of 200 why is that the AAT r giving less points . And is it better to go uni after technician or intermediate level..


Thanks

axl2derv

It really depends on your situation.

Intermediate is worth 160 UCAS points but we don’t know how many points Technician is worth. We have to assume that the Technician is worth more points as it is higher than Intermediate and it is also far more difficult.

I personally believe that if you do an undergraduate degree after AAT, you have just wasted the 3 years doing the AAT qualification as both AAT and BSc graduates start the CIMA / ACCA qualification at the same level.

The best option is to finish the AAT qualification first and don’t leave after Intermediate. Then you need to decide if you want to do ACCA or CIMA next (if you want to).

In my situation, I am trying to do a postgraduate degree at university after AAT as I cannot find an employer to fund CIMA for me. I am unable to fund it myself as I don’t have that kind of money, which is about £12,000 if you do it properly over the 3 years it takes. I also don’t have access to any form of loan (inc. CDL) from the bank due to my bad credit and the government don’t offer grants either beyond AAT.

With a postgraduate degree, the university have what’s called an access to learning fund which is basically for people who have the ability but are unable to fund themselves. There are also several research councils in the UK which also offer financial support for postgraduate study, which you can apply for through the university.

Where as the AAT qualification is not equal to a BSc, with a sufficient amount of practical experience you should be able to get on an MSc or MBA course after AAT. I will let you know how that works out when I find out first hand myself.

As you have probably read from the posts on this forum, I have been getting a bit of stick from others who believe that I should be doing CIMA after AAT as academic qualifications are not a patch on vocational ones. This of course is true.

A few people have not understood my logic but that was due to me holding back information about my financial circumstances. I have explained this now in the beginning of my post.

Now I could wait around for 3 years after AAT and wait for an employer to fund CIMA for me but I am not prepared to get left behind and be past by others who have the luxury of an employer who will fund CIMA / ACCA straight after the AAT qualification.

If I can’t get funding for CIMA then I am going to do postgraduate and not waste any time.

AdamR

axl2derv wrote: »

It really depends on your situation.

Intermediate is worth 160 UCAS points but we don’t know how many points Technician is worth. We have to assume that the Technician is worth more points as it is higher than Intermediate and it is also far more difficult.

Looking on the UCAS website, I don't think you get anything for technician; only Intermediate gets any points.

axl2derv

AdamR wrote: »

Looking on the UCAS website, I don't think you get anything for technician; only Intermediate gets any points.

I believe that the points system for Intermediate is for A - Level purposes. I was told that A – Level students progressed on to Technician level and get exemption from Foundation and Intermediate.

A – Level students have the option to go to University or do the Technician Level.

Bookworm55

*raises hand*

I'm at uni after completing the AAT. Actually I have my final exams in a few weeks.

I would not say it was a waste of time to do both. But I will admit that I hadn't decided to go to uni until half-way through the aat.

I would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

Monsoon

axl2derv wrote: »

I believe that the points system for Intermediate is for A - Level purposes. I was told that A – Level students progressed on to Technician level and get exemption from Foundation and Intermediate.

A – Level students have the option to go to University or do the Technician Level.

I'm not sure about this. My BA (Hons) exempted me from Foundation only and I had to begin at Intermediate level. This is the only thing my degree has ever been useful for!

My A-Levels were irrelevant for AAT level exemptions (I think, it was years ago) as they were in arts not sciences.

My advice to anyone wondering what further qualifications to take is to ask the horse's mouth exactly what gives you what, and ask potential employers exactly what they are looking for.

To all those still studying, good luck

axl2derv

I have managed to find an employer that will fund a CCAB for me so CIMA is back on the cards. I still plan to do an MBA after CIMA though.

Sonny_L

Congratulations on the job. That will be a strong combination as far as I can see. I've considered something similar after ACA. I don't know if the elite business schools accept prof. quals as entry onto masters programs?

[Deleted User]

You will get onto an MBA with ACA if you are in industry and hold a managerial position. A practice director should also be eligible. I think I am right anyway. :confused1: