The ECR Exam 30/11/2009
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If the ACTUAL loss is less than the EXPECTED loss the difference is known as an abnormal gain and can therefore not magically make itself into and extra 15 when you only began with 500!
read what someone else put, maybe you'll understand it then
#88 Today, 21:24
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New Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by catheriner3482
thank you, hopefully dingaling will stoping inplying i'm thick coz i said it was an abnormal gain of 40!
it was the only way to balance it. 515 output + 25 normal loss = 540 therefore if direct material input was 500 then there had to be 40 added to the left side and the only thing that it could be is abnormal gain. it took me ages though to get it to balance as i couldn't work out the unit price for the abnormal gain and output so i managed to get it to 30 and balanced both sides. seem to have got the same answer as most people on here so i am relieved (not that it's definitely correct but at least if everyone's done the same thing then that's good!)0 -
catheriner3482 wrote: »thank you, hopefully dingaling will stoping inplying i'm thick coz i said it was an abnormal gain of 40!
OMG!!!! Shush now you clearly are thick! I don't have to imply anything. It is an abnormal gain but you can't get more than you put in! you can only get more but with the expected loss being less than what was expected! Now! I'm not talking to you about this anymore! We clearly don't agree and as I've said in previous posts if it is an error full marks will be awarded anyway so this is pointless. I would really suggest you re-read your costing systems chapter!0 -
catheriner3482 wrote: »read what someone else put, maybe you'll understand it then
#88 Today, 21:24
Spans
New Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by catheriner3482
thank you, hopefully dingaling will stoping inplying i'm thick coz i said it was an abnormal gain of 40!
it was the only way to balance it. 515 output + 25 normal loss = 540 therefore if direct material input was 500 then there had to be 40 added to the left side and the only thing that it could be is abnormal gain. it took me ages though to get it to balance as i couldn't work out the unit price for the abnormal gain and output so i managed to get it to 30 and balanced both sides. seem to have got the same answer as most people on here so i am relieved (not that it's definitely correct but at least if everyone's done the same thing then that's good!)
I'm not saying that forcing it to balance was the wrong thing to do all I'm saying is you can't get 515 out when you put 500 in. I forced it to balance and then straight after I spoke to my tutor and then I've come home and re-read the chapter and I firmly stand by and I quote "IF THE ACTUAL LOSS IS LESS THAN THE EXPECTED LOSS THE DIFFERENCE IS KNOWN AS AN ABNNORMAL GAIN"0 -
NO BUSINESS CASE wrote: »same here abnormal gain 40 and unit price £30 per kg. Must be honest I thought it strange that abnormal gain made it more than that what went into the pot but just went with the flow!!
P&L I just had a stab at to be honest but overall section 2 was ok for me as that is the section I have been revising on with gusto!
Hated the group bonus question just was a bit more confusing that it needed to be and changed my answer about 3/4 times!!!
All in all glad it is done and may squeak through if there is a fair wind!!
Didn't rate that group bonus question either!0 -
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I'm not saying that forcing it to balance was the wrong thing to do all I'm saying is you can't get 515 out when you put 500 in. I forced it to balance and then straight after I spoke to my tutor and then I've come home and re-read the chapter and I firmly stand by and I quote "IF THE ACTUAL LOSS IS LESS THAN THE EXPECTED LOSS THE DIFFERENCE IS KNOWN AS AN ABNNORMAL GAIN"
ok we agree then, all i was saying is it had to have an abnormal gain for it to balance, but i agree, you can get out more than you put in!0 -
i work in sales so the group bonus question was something that we actually do at work sowas glad for once i could use this and got it quite right i believe0
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catheriner3482 wrote: »ok we agree then, all i was saying is it had to have an abnormal gain for it to balance, but i agree, you can get out more than you put in!
yep glad everyone is agreed! glad that paper is over and done with anyway!!! yuck - DFS paper on Wednesday morning. really really not looking forwad to it. i am ok on the financial statements and balance sheets but i am struggling to remember all the IAS's and what they all mean! eek!0 -
yeh that bonus group thing was strange. i think i did ok on it but it did surprise me a bit! they never usually go into wages in that much depth on a paper. i didn't think the first half was that bad though
I dunno! the stock card thing foxed me for a bit! Knew it was avco but didn't feel it was as straight forward as past papers.0 -
yep glad everyone is agreed! glad that paper is over and done with anyway!!! yuck - DFS paper on Wednesday morning. really really not looking forwad to it. i am ok on the financial statements and balance sheets but i am struggling to remember all the IAS's and what they all mean! eek!
good luck with that, hope the other exams aren't too hard.0 -
catheriner3482 wrote: »ok we agree then, all i was saying is it had to have an abnormal gain for it to balance, but i agree, you can get out more than you put in!
Can we be friends again then please?!?! That was the only point i was trying to make hence my tutors call to AAT tmro
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I didn't really struggle with the NPC and normal loss/abnormal gain question but on 2.1b and the limiting factor question. Completely screwed up the p&ls.
How was part 2, question 1 b) worked out?
and in the limiting factor question, why were the fixed costs split amongst the 3 products in the information and in the table you had to complete there was only one box, not 3 for the 3 products :S Wasn't contribution for demand already given? Somehow i worked out that none of product2 should be proudced.0 -
as i said before i want that process.....
if i put a tenner i might end up with £150 -
I am amazed any of you can remember any of the questions in the detail you have, but seem to have had the same problems as most of you.
I can't remember which question it was - perhaps the P&L one. but we had sales price £12, prime cost of £4 and variable cost of £3. Then the schedule on the next page only asked for variable costs. No mention of the prime cost - or should they have been added together?
As for abnormal gain - does not matter if it could happen or not - the theory was the same I hope and £30 was right with 475 tons at £14250 - otherwise I screwed it up completely!!0 -
EcrThat question was before the scary processing question with the abnormal gain. The question for the product cost was based on normal production with the normal loss of 5%. I can't remember what I put now but I managed to work it out (I hope)
Hello guys, are we allowed to talk about our answers now? sorry, I am still reading the posts.0 -
bookcooker wrote: »I am amazed any of you can remember any of the questions in the detail you have, but seem to have had the same problems as most of you.
I can't remember which question it was - perhaps the P&L one. but we had sales price £12, prime cost of £4 and variable cost of £3. Then the schedule on the next page only asked for variable costs. No mention of the prime cost - or should they have been added together?
As for abnormal gain - does not matter if it could happen or not - the theory was the same I hope and £30 was right with 475 tons at £14250 - otherwise I screwed it up completely!!
prime cost + variable cost = total variable costs0 -
I didn't really struggle with the NPC and normal loss/abnormal gain question but on 2.1b and the limiting factor question. Completely screwed up the p&ls.
How was part 2, question 1 b) worked out?
and in the limiting factor question, why were the fixed costs split amongst the 3 products in the information and in the table you had to complete there was only one box, not 3 for the 3 products :S Wasn't contribution for demand already given? Somehow i worked out that none of product2 should be proudced.0 -
There was a past exam with abnormal gains, I fluffed it in class and was put right by my tutor who explained that normal loss is part of the process and must be added, the abnormal gain therefore was only 15Kg, the 25Kg normal loss weighed the same going in as it did coming out and was scrapped at the 25Kg x £1.68 = £42. The 475Kg was the normal output and the difference of the two added together (15Kg) is the abnormal gain and is usually removed from the process and dealt with separately (according to the books and tutors). As for making the input up to 540Kg surely the then 5% normal loss would increase and make the answer even more difficult to obtain??? I really don't know for sure these are just my opinions from what I have learnt and revised, but I have to say todays paper was the paper form hell and the examiner needs to try their own exam at our level with only five weeks to learn it all in! There was really no need to be so evil in writing that paper!!!!0
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That question was before the scary processing question with the abnormal gain. The question for the product cost was based on normal production with the normal loss of 5%. I can't remember what I put now but I managed to work it out (I hope)catheriner3482 wrote: »you can have a gain, it's called an abnormal gain and it goes on the same side of the account as the input of 500, i think the total was 540 due to 515 output and the 25 normal loss.
I have a 540kgs balance as well. With 40 abnormal gain but I was not confident with the ''explain why'' questions!! the whole paper was hard.0 -
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i am just hoping the pass rate is a lot lower this year!!0
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What a horrid exam
OMG what a horrid exam paper got totally confused by the P&L question...did anyone else get 36000 profit for FAC, therefore meaning MC profit should have been 26000 (36000 less 5000 closing stock units x £2 overhead per unit) I just couldn't balance to this though 0 -
the whole paper was evil, nothing like past exam papers and much harded, i hope AAT lower the pass grade, seems as everyone found it really hard.0
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OMG what a horrid exam paper got totally confused by the P&L question...did anyone else get 36000 profit for FAC, therefore meaning MC profit should have been 26000 (36000 less 5000 closing stock units x £2 overhead per unit) I just couldn't balance to this though
i got tottally stuck on this question too, i don't even remember doing anything like this in class. and there has never been a question like this on any past exam. i had no idea how to make it balance!0 -
I can't remember the word "total" in the answer sheet - but in that case I think I got one right!!
thanks0 -
I really had NO idea when it came 2.3 on P and L.
Should it been Debit and Credits or what?? why were there two columns?? sooooo confused
Touch and go for me if I pass :-(0 -
Thank the lordy I wasn't the only one who found this question hard...I spent nearly 45 mins on it before abandoning it as a bad job Me's expecting a big a fail because of that one! 0
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catheriner3482 wrote: »i got tottally stuck on this question too, i don't even remember doing anything like this in class. and there has never been a question like this on any past exam. i had no idea how to make it balance!
I'm not sure it was supposed to balance as the closing stock in FAC has the overheads already absorbed into the stock whereas MC doesn't.
I only had a very vague idea on the P&L because of unit 5 0
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