Working Dogs

ademoore

Hi all,

I have a client just purchased a working dog for their business - they are a pest control company.

The query I have is "is the food purchased for this dog tax deductible?"

I have been reading about how there are different types of food for working dogs, and some foods are clearly given to better enhance their performance because of the work they do - I.e. greyhounds needing different diets etc. Whether the food is vatable or not, depends on the contents of the food and whether endorsed for 'working dogs' but what about being deductible? Does it need to be of a similar ruling, where it must be specialised type food to be deductible, and normal dog biscuity type food which could in theory be given to a normal pet dog is non-deductible?

Any advice, or experience with this would be greatly appreciated!! Can't find anything straight forward on the net!!

PGM

The theory is if a purchase is wholly for business use, then so should be the running expenses.

I don't see why it should be any different here.

Although if its kept at home as a pet, could that change things?

How do they treat sheep dogs?

Gem7321

I've worked on a few farm accounts and we have allowed the food for working dogs. We've also had working cats and horses!

We've also had a scrap yard where the food for a security dog was allowable.

Maybe I'm being really thick but why does a pest controller need a dog?

anniem

We have gamekeepers who have dogs and if there is VAT on the dog food then I do claim it back. You are quite right about some dog food having VAT and others not, so I always put through whatever it says on the invoice for VAT.

I also used to work for a practice that did a lot of pubs/restaurants and yes, we did put the 'dog' stuff through the businesses. I think the view was taken that the dogs in the pubs also acted as a security alert and so there was an insurance element to the dog.

I think your pest man would be wise to have a dog about the place, guarding people from access to poisons - so possible insurance element here.

Sometimes you will also find that if the dog dies, and you haven't told the insurance company they get funny about claims as you haven't told them about dog dying and the premium was reduced because of the dog! (I'm not joking!)

King of the Mountains

Gem7321 wrote: »

I've worked on a few farm accounts and we have allowed the food for working dogs. We've also had working cats and horses!

We've also had a scrap yard where the food for a security dog was allowable.

Maybe I'm being really thick but why does a pest controller need a dog?

For catching rabbits - maybe a lurcher, for catching rats - maybe a terrier, for catching foxes - maybe a hound

BHB

King of the Mountains, your reply made me smile. Takes a lot after the day i've had.

BHB

ademoore

Thanks!

Thanks for the replies everyone!! A big help!

I did check with them, and it is mainly for (their words!!) "roughing up rabbits on farms"

Gem7321

King of the Mountains wrote: »

for catching foxes - maybe a hound

'Catching' with dogs (except for rats and rabbits) is illegal

King of the Mountains

Gem7321 wrote: »

'Catching' with dogs (except for rats and rabbits) is illegal

No it isn't. Get your facts correct.

Gem7321

Flushing out is legal as long as the landowner has given permission and the pest would cause damage to livestock or property.

Don't make the impression that I am anti-hunting, when your partner hunts wabbits and your brother goes fox hunting you have to know the law

I believe the OPs question has been answered so I'll leave this thread alone now.

King of the Mountains

That's better. Thank you. I quite often take my hound for a walk and we do come home with foxes. I have not been arrested yet.

Rinske

Not being arrested yet or it being legal are two different things tho.... :laugh:

King of the Mountains

It is not illegal.

anniem

Taken from: http://www.huntwatch.info/legality.htm

There are no easy answers as to what is and is not lawful under the Act. Ultimately it
will be a matter for the courts. But we can still do a rough guide as some acts are now
clearly against the law

Illegal exercising of hounds
Putting more than two hounds into woodland, gorse or a cover, where they are likely to pick up a scent.
The hounds running ahead of the huntsman / field, and are baying/in cry, this is a sign that a scent has been picked up, and that the hounds are in pursuit of something.
Baying or hounds in cry must be called off immediately, by the use of a horn, a whip or by a voice calls.

Flushing out with hounds
No more than two dogs can be used in flushing of wild mammals to guns.
No dogs can chase or killing a wild mammal.
The hounds must be called off by use of a horn, whips or voice calls

Reasonable steps must be taken to ensure that the animal is shot dead by a competent person, and reasonable steps taken to ensure that the dog doing the stalking/flushing is kept under close control to allow the animal to be shot.
Dogs must not be used below ground for flushing out, unless
A - this is done to prevent or reduced serious damage to game birds
B - the person doing the flushing has on him written evidence that the land belongs to him or that he has been given permission to use the land for that purpose by the occupier of the land.
In the case of flushing below ground for this purpose only one dog may be used and reasonable steps must be taken to ensure that the animal is flushed out as soon as it is found, and shot by a competent person as soon as it is flushed out. Reasonable steps must be taken to keep the dog under control to ensure that the animal is shot.

A Drag or trail hunt that isn’t
A trail or a drag being put though crop, woodland, near roads, peoples houses or near railway lines.
Blocked earths or badger setts. It is actually illegal to interfere with a badger sett under the Protection of badger’s act 1992. Hunters will often block fox earths so foxes cannot escape from hounds, this should be filmed and reported to us.
Hounds going off the trail or drag and not being immediately put back on track either by the horn, whip, or voice calls.

Rats or rabbits hunting
It is still legal to hunt rats and rabbits with dogs. Mink hunts have stated they are to hunt rabbits and rats instead of mink in the summer and some harrier packs have said they are to hunt rabbits. The hunter must still have permission from the occupier; if the land is not occupied then they need it from the landowner.

Things that may cause suspicion;

Rats or rabbits next to a riverbank. Chasing rabbit as they live under ground and do not go far from their burrows.
Chasing rats, as again they will be quick to escape down their holes.
Hunting rabbits would never work, as they would quickly go to ground, as would rats. The CA states that hare hunts can change to rabbit hunts and mink hunts to rat, but this is a ludicrous idea. Most hare hunts take place over crop land and typical hare habitat not occupied by rabbits - if a "rabbit hunt" continue to draw fields occupied predominantly by hares then they would be hunting illegally whether they called themselves a "rabbit hunt" or not.
The same for rats - they do not occupy the same territory as mink, so if mink hunts continue to draw riverbanks then they will be hunting illegally regardless of the fact that they call themselves a "rat hunt".

The use of a terrier
Signs a terrier and a fox have been fighting may well be illegal if the terrier man has not taken steps to prevent this. The person with the terrier must have written permission from the occupier of the land (or the landowner if the land is unoccupied) stating that they are allowed to use the land for the purpose of flushing out below ground.
No more than one terrier can be used under ground at one time and only if this is to prevent or reduced serious damage to game birds.
A fox is still to be shot to prevent damage to game bird. They must have written permission from the occupier or landowner.
Has the person with the terrier got permission to be on the land, they must have permission from the occupier of the land or the landowner if unoccupied? Written permission must state that the hunter has permission to use the land for the purpose of flushing out to prevent damage to game birds.
No dog is to be put down a badger sett; or to mark it (means scratch or gather around the entrance) it is illegal under the Protection of badger’s act 1992.

---

Does this help clear the issue up?

King of the Mountains

I know.

T.C.

Off the point somewhat, but great information Anniem, well done!!!

anniem

Thanks TC.

I was interested to know the answer as I work alongside my husband looking after 6,000 acres of farmland and woodland, so it is relevant to my work.

We have many types of pest control going on over the enterprise, but I have to say that dogs aren't used.

I have been advised by my husband - long time Farmer, now Estate Manager that it isn't uncommon to use dogs to flush rabbits back into rabbit holes, then the exits are earthed up so that the rabbits can be gassed. Legal.

Rabbits cause a huge amount of damage to crops which can run into £thousands of lost revenue for farmers.

I'm not quite sure how they use dogs versus rats, but again, rats do get into grainstores and then contaminate store wheat/barley/rye/oats/oilseed rape with urine and faeces; this is grain potentially going into our food chain. I'm sure that we would all rather that the rats were eradicated by whatever method under these circumstances! The level of contamination does also affect how much the farmer gets paid for his grain too, the better quality the grain, the more £ he's paid - so there is a financial impact too.

From a work point of view I want to see as much grain sold as possible at a good price - but I also like to know that my weetabix isn't full of rat poo!

Rinske

anniem wrote: »

From a work point of view I want to see as much grain sold as possible at a good price - but I also like to know that my weetabix isn't full of rat poo!

Yummie Wheetabix with rat poo! You make it sound so lovely!

T.C.

Anniem. I see the relevance. I live in the countryside and the farmers around here use ferrets for 'rabbiting', not dogs. There used to be some hare-coarsing years ago, but nobody around here does much of it now. Foxes are hunted, by men, and shot humanely. Shoots are carried out, using beaters (people who bash the bushes for those unfamiliar with the countryside), hares, rabbits, pheasants etc are flushed out, shot and dogs used to fetch the animals. Not my idea of fun, but that's country-life.

King of the Mountains

Hare coursing is illegal.

ademoore

I can't believe this thread is still going !!!! Stirred up quite a hornets nest - if you'll excuse the pun!!