Steve's DFS Courses

Steve Collings

Hi All,

As the AAT qualification is changing and students will now be able to sit their examinations on an unscheduled basis (i.e. without the need for set June and December sittings), I have taken the (unfortunate) decision to withdraw my revision days and 'early start' courses for the December 2010 sittings with immediate effect.

I have received some enquiries concerning these days for the next session following the June 2010 release, but unfortunately my forthcoming workload, anticipated future commitments and my work with AccountancyStudents, cannot coincide with AAT's plans for the future of their courses as they seem too sporadic for me to plan any courses and produce relevant course notes.

I will continue to contribute on the forums and provide links to articles etc., but with so many students sitting so many exams and so many different times, it makes it impossible to plan any sort of courses.

Best wishes
Steve

beverly hudson

Steve this is exactly my point. Students need full time dedicated course providers. With the changes to AAT coming in so quickly you need to be on the ball and up to speed. Only full time approved tuition providers can do this.

Regards

sunshine2010

Beverly you keep saying you are a full time tutor etc....

Well how about you go tutor and get off the forums .... you never offer any valuable advice anyway.

Sorry to hear that steve. Hope to still see you posting as you posts have always helped me a lot !!

jilt

sunshine2010 wrote: »

Well how about you go tutor and get off the forums .... you never offer any valuable advice anyway.

Well said Sunshine.

It would appear though that she has nothing better to do than stalk Steve on here!!

Steve Collings

beverly hudson wrote: »

With the changes to AAT coming in so quickly you need to be on the ball and up to speed. Only full time approved tuition providers can do this.

Regards

Absolutely Beverly. Particularly if you teach auditing.

Beverly, my decision not to hold DFS days is for the rest of this year. I would like to do some other revision days for DFS when the new course structure is up and running and I can guage (from the forums) the times when students need a course - they are, after all, the reason I put the courses on and it is their needs I look after, nothing to do with full time tutor's input. With all due respect, my decision was based around this amongst other things, no influence was taken from yourself.

Kind regards,
Steve

Steve Collings

sunshine2010 wrote: »

Beverly you keep saying you are a full time tutor etc....

Well how about you go tutor and get off the forums .... you never offer any valuable advice anyway.

Sorry to hear that steve. Hope to still see you posting as you posts have always helped me a lot !!

Hi Sunshine,

Don't worry about not seeing my postings, those will still appear. I am waiting to see how the new AAT qualification pans out and then I can see when students need such courses. With traditional June/December sittings it is easy to plan courses because you know when the students will be sitting exams. With the new AAT qualification coming in, meaning students can sit exams whenever they are ready, it will be difficult (initially) to plan DFS days, but that doesn't preclude me from posting links to various financial reporting related subjects.

Best wishes
Steve

blobbyh

Hi Beverley,

Seems your credibility is unfortunately quite low on here at the moment, which is clearly not a good thing if you are really a tutor and thus capable of becoming a future forum asset and resource. As you will have noticed, people are very protective towards Steve and Sandy. They've been here for years and been thanked by countless people over that time who've appreciated them for who they are and for helping them go onto bigger and better things.

But instead of being negative towards others, might I suggest you refocus into providing positivity by answering some of the other student queries on here in the same way that Steve and Sandy do? Tutors are always welcomed for the valuable advice they can bring and with twenty years experience, yours should be considerable and valuable.

beverly hudson

I apologise if people think I am 'stalking' Steve or if my posts are somewhat beyond the line. I am also sorry that my reputation seems to be low on here but I am a strong advocator of students going to full time, reputable tuition providers. Professional qualifications are not a game and can't be played at. As I have said before if you are I'll you go to the doctors. If you are a student you should take tuition from a tutor who is trained in the syllabus, can plan a tutorial, knows their subject well and can offer students something more out of tuition hours.

I have campaigned a log to have non full time tutors banned from doing such revision days because you need to understand the syllabus fully in order to get students through their exams. That is all I an saying.

sunshine2010

You dont seem to understand steve has never said he is teaching a full sylabus.

He does revision days near the exams to help students with parts of the sylabus they have struggeld with... He does not tutor the course ... REVISION DAYS(its all in the name really)

dont think many people will be helping your campaign thats for sure !!

Steve Collings

Hi Beverly,

I can see your argument but I cannot agree with it. I am not a boastful person, but I have been running DFS days for about 3 years and in that time my pass rates have never been under 98%. This level cannot be achieved without understanding the syllabus, examiner requirements, undertaking adequate planning or understanding where students struggle. This is something that makes me immensely proud of both my teaching ability and the students who come on my courses - particularly in a technical subject such as financial reporting or an auditing paper. I, too, have been a student and have experienced the stressful times exams and study bring. I like to think that every student who walks into my class has their "head in the bin" and cannot see the wood for the trees. This is because when the students walk out of the classroom, they are much more focussed, and on the "straight and narrow". The sense of achievement I (as the lecturer) feels when I get students emailing me on results day saying they have passed is something you, as a tutor, must understand. I would not go anywhere near a classroom if I got bad feedback from students or if I had not undertaken sufficient planning for the lectures. My lectures can take 3 months to prepare for before I even stand up in front of a room of students which is why I have had to cancel the remainder of this year's courses because of other commitments.

Of course I am in a full-time practice role, but this also involves me lecturing to qualified accountants, yet I don't have seminar providers for whom I am not speaking for sending me correspondence demanding that I withdraw from the lecture circuit because I am jeopardising their market!

I respect the fact that you are an experienced tutor, but I do think you should listen to the advice of others on here because tutors' opinions are very much respected on here, but respect has to be earnt. I simply cannot understand why you think the fact that Sandy Hood and myself organise courses would in any way threaten other tutors??

Regards
Steve

blobbyh

With respect, the doctor analogy is a poor one as we're not talking about actual life and death. However, if we were talking about the difference between a qualified and non-qualified plumber fitting your washing machine, who cares if both are capable of doing the job well? Repeat business comes from successful results leading to word of mouth recommendations.

Whether the AAT could or would ban non-full time tutors should not be an issue and seems more self serving towards your own interests than any alleged sympathy towards these students you seem to think are being ripped off. There have been many people on here over the years complaining of poor, full time tutors. Equally, there have also been many threads complaining about expensive, professionally run courses. To my knowledge, there has never been a single thread complaining about the courses run by Sandy or Steve and quality is not always indicative of using "amateur" or "professional" tutors. There are poor examples in each.

It's also a question of economics and value for money, the latter of which Steve and Sandy have happily provided to many people. Forcing people to pay for professionally run courses would probably lead to less take up of the course as many simply would not be able to afford it.

Banning "amateur" tutors is not a solution to a problem that may not even exist in the first place, it's simply just another problem in trying to enforce it.

Monsoon

Steve's revision days are to formal AAT courses what complementary therapies are to Western medicine:

If they work for you, that's brilliant. If they don't, nobody is forcing you you to take them and they won't do you any harm.

Beverly in the nicest way do you not have better things to do than come on here and criticise all the time?

System

Hello all

I just wanted to give everyone a "gentle reminder" about keeping things civil on the forums. We certainly don't want any discussion to descend into personal attacks (or worse).

So far, this thread has been pretty tame, so I'm not accusing anyone of being too personal or of any other inappropriate behaviour.

We certainly don't wish to stifle an honest, open discussion and it would be silly to not expect the postings to get a little heated now and then; indeed, it would make things a bit dull and boring!

Let's just all try to keep it professional and things should continue to be okay!

Cheers!

Adam White

AAT Web Team

sdv

Steve Collings wrote: »

Hi Beverly,

I can see your argument but I cannot agree with it. I am not a boastful person, but I have been running DFS days for about 3 years and in that time my pass rates have never been under 98%. This level cannot be achieved without understanding the syllabus, examiner requirements, undertaking adequate planning or understanding where students struggle. This is something that makes me immensely proud of both my teaching ability and the students who come on my courses - particularly in a technical subject such as financial reporting or an auditing paper. I, too, have been a student and have experienced the stressful times exams and study bring. I like to think that every student who walks into my class has their "head in the bin" and cannot see the wood for the trees. This is because when the students walk out of the classroom, they are much more focussed, and on the "straight and narrow". The sense of achievement I (as the lecturer) feels when I get students emailing me on results day saying they have passed is something you, as a tutor, must understand. I would not go anywhere near a classroom if I got bad feedback from students or if I had not undertaken sufficient planning for the lectures. My lectures can take 3 months to prepare for before I even stand up in front of a room of students which is why I have had to cancel the remainder of this year's courses because of other commitments.

Of course I am in a full-time practice role, but this also involves me lecturing to qualified accountants, yet I don't have seminar providers for whom I am not speaking for sending me correspondence demanding that I withdraw from the lecture circuit because I am jeopardising their market!

I respect the fact that you are an experienced tutor, but I do think you should listen to the advice of others on here because tutors' opinions are very much respected on here, but respect has to be earnt. I simply cannot understand why you think the fact that Sandy Hood and myself organise courses would in any way threaten other tutors??

Regards
Steve

Hi Steve

You don't have to justify your teaching or technical qualifications on here. There will always be people with a different views and opinion then currently held by many. And that's the spice of life. All I would say listen to them, consider that view and move forward with either adjusting (if necessary) or not and continue to do the good work.

We have read countless tesimonial about your revision courses and your explantions on technical matters.

So much so, that there are many students who have been attending full-time, part-time and distance learning courses, have not understood some of the accounting concepts from their tutors.

But, when they have read your explanations on the forum and/or attended your revision courses, its then just clicked. and that's because you have given students a different perspective on how to to solve a problem.

That does not mean that the Tutor's were wrong, but everbody had a different way of learning. Your different approched has removed that misunderstanding barrier, and has actually helped the full-time tutors to get their student's to understand the problem and get a better sucess rate.

A suggestion on your revision courses:

You could actually set a number of revision courses on, say Early Decemeber, February, and May.(every 8 weeks). The students can then book their exams at their college a week after your revision courses.

This will not only help the current students to plan their assessments but also those students who are planning to re-take exams in December and June under the old standards.

Steve Collings

sdv wrote: »

A suggestion on your revision courses:

You could actually set a number of revision courses on, say Early Decemeber, February, and May.(every 8 weeks). The students can then book their exams at their college a week after your revision courses.
.

Hi SDV,

Thank you for your suggestion. It is certainly a good idea!!

This year is definitely a no-no unfortunately. I really struggled fitting courses in for the June diet and have other stuff 'in the pipeline' for the remainder of this year and it would be foolish of me to commit to study and revision days and then stand up in a class absolutely exhausted and not 'on form'. Students deserve better!!

Best wishes
Steve

Bluewednesday

I think, as others have stated, Steve and Sandy's lecturing success has come from word of mouth. If they didn't have such a good reputation for helping just because they wanted to help, they wouldn't survive.

I think you can also guage the knowledge and the teaching abilities from their posts on the forum and the willingness to help.

I certainly wouldn't be interested in going to a tutor who had to back track their advice as they were giving incorrect information on a forum, especially on something that can be so easily checked!

Rinske

Hi Steve,

I am sorry to hear that you don't have time for any more revision courses this year, but glad you keep around to post and help students here!

I hope the real life commitments are fun and good ones and nothing bad/ boring/ sad or other.

Although I think it was a shame I was not able to attend your revision course, I am hoping to have passed anyways. If I do have to do a resit for DFS, I will certainly look into your direction for help again!

How was your holiday and how was the teaching in South Africa? Did you have some time to do some touristy stuff like looking around and go on a big dangerous safari (wild elephants are apparently scary....) or have you mainly been teaching?

Rinske

Steve Collings

Rinske wrote: »

How was your holiday and how was the teaching in South Africa? Did you have some time to do some touristy stuff like looking around and go on a big dangerous safari (wild elephants are apparently scary....) or have you mainly been teaching?

Rinske

Hi Rinske,

I didn't get to South Africa when first scheduled because their Companies Act has changed so all the colleges over there are trying to get to grips with that so it was deferred until next year. I don't do dangerous safari, wild elephants or anything like that!!! LOL!!

Rinske

Shame it didn't go through, but understandable.

When you do go, do you think you could fit me in your suitcase....

beverly hudson

I think people are misconstruing my point. I accept Steve and sandy are highly respected but that is not the point I am making. The point I am emphasising is that a tutor needs to be full time. Teaching is much more than just teaching a subject, you have to be a jack of all trades such as counsellor and this is my point. Courses which simply teach the technicalities don't always work. This can lead to all sorts of problems and mistakes being made.

I have not questioned steves ability to answer questions in here and his answers are of a good standard but it is one thing answering questions on a forum and teaching in class.

I will close by saying that I have not questioned anybodys skills but as a full time tutor I firmly believe students should be in a structured environment.

GreenMousey

beverly hudson wrote: »

I think people are misconstruing my point. I accept Steve and sandy are highly respected but that is not the point I am making. The point I am emphasising is that a tutor needs to be full time. Teaching is much more than just teaching a subject, you have to be a jack of all trades such as counsellor and this is my point. Courses which simply teach the technicalities don't always work. This can lead to all sorts of problems and mistakes being made.

I have not questioned steves ability to answer questions in here and his answers are of a good standard but it is one thing answering questions on a forum and teaching in class.

I will close by saying that I have not questioned anybodys skills but as a full time tutor I firmly believe students should be in a structured environment.

Respect is something you earn regardless of whether you're full-time, part-time, quarter-time or hammer-time. The very fact that the people who go on the courses have not only passed but taken the time out to recommend the courses speaks a great volume more than someone who, claims they are a full-time tutor without being open about whom they work for, hasn't even been on one of those courses! Arm chair critics don't tend to hold much weight when they've no evidence to back their claims up with.

~Mouse

A-Vic

beverly hudson wrote: »

I think people are misconstruing my point. I accept Steve and sandy are highly respected but that is not the point I am making. The point I am emphasising is that a tutor needs to be full time. Teaching is much more than just teaching a subject, you have to be a jack of all trades such as counsellor and this is my point. Courses which simply teach the technicalities don't always work. This can lead to all sorts of problems and mistakes being made.

I have not questioned steves ability to answer questions in here and his answers are of a good standard but it is one thing answering questions on a forum and teaching in class.

I will close by saying that I have not questioned anybodys skills but as a full time tutor I firmly believe students should be in a structured environment.

and your eveidence to back up your theory of this is? or are you just staiting home study students who pass the same exams as college students are not as good a quality? Beverly no disrespct but serously you really cant believe this?

Now either your not a tutor or you keep avoiding questions but before you have the audacity to asume because your a so called full time tutor makes you a better tutor surely its a case of quality not quantity?

A-Vic

GreenMousey wrote: »

Respect is something you earn regardless of whether you're full-time, part-time, quarter-time or hammer-time.

~Mouse

GreenMousey

A-Vic wrote: »

Sorry, I was on a roll and couldn't resist !

Monsoon

beverly hudson wrote: »

The point I am emphasising is that a tutor needs to be full time.

Why? If someone knows the subject and is doing a revision course on certain syllabus areas, not all of them, and has a proven track record, why the need for full time? You don't have to teach full time to be good at it. More to the point, a revision course isn't teaching, its revision, there is a subtle diference.

Teaching is much more than just teaching a subject, you have to be a jack of all trades such as counsellor and this is my point.

And this is relevant to a revision course how? The regular tutor can counsel if that's what's needed. A one-off revision course is about revision, not the whole package.

Courses which simply teach the technicalities don't always work. This can lead to all sorts of problems and mistakes being made.

Can you provide evidence for this?

I firmly believe students should be in a structured environment.

Quite. No-one is saying "Go to Steve and Sandy's courses and quit college." A revision course by a proven professional is structured. See above my comment about complementart therapies.

GreenMousey wrote:

Respect is something you earn regardless of whether you're full-time, part-time, quarter-time or hammer-time. The very fact that the people who go on the courses have not only passed but taken the time out to recommend the courses speaks a great volume more than someone who, claims they are a full-time tutor without being open about whom they work for, hasn't even been on one of those courses! Arm chair critics don't tend to hold much weight when they've no evidence to back their claims up with.

~Mouse

Hammer-time!
+1 to all you've said.

amyjayne27

A-Vic wrote: »

and your eveidence to back up your theory of this is? or are you just staiting home study students who pass the same exams as college students are not as good a quality? Beverly no disrespct but serously you really cant believe this?

This is so true, I have read this thread with interest and I must say Beverley that you are fighting a losing battle here. I have also read your other posts on this site and quite a few of them contain 'questionable' information.

I am a home study student and it saddens me that you think that because I am not in a 'structured enviroment' that my work is not of good quality compared to someone who has a full time tutor?

I haven't yet asked for Steve or Sandys advice, but I know I will be in the future, their advice is second to none.

Amy

blobbyh

With respect Beverley, I think you are missing your own point which seems to be that tutors should be professionally qualified rather than full or part time. Many qualified teachers are only the latter yet I would hope the quality of their schooling is certainly not pro-rata to the hours they are giving! Are you impying a tutor giving twenty hours a week is only half as good as someone giving forty? That could equally apply to any job, so if so, we should sack half the workforce of Britain.

(If your argument is actually with qualification not time based, would you only let a qualified mechanic do a service on your car or would you trust anyone who knows what they are doing, qualified or otherwise? After all, changing brake pads literally is a matter of life and death but simple enough that many of us can do it ourselves).

Sandy is indeed a full time tutor so really outside the scope of your argument. Steve may not be a professional tutor but he is a professional and published accountant whose opinion on topics such as DFS is certainly valued and much sought after. Neither are teaching anything outside their own skill range and both are recognised as knowledable and competent by the AAT governing body.

Yes, students should ideally be in a college environment to pass, however many aren't for a variety of reasons - cost undoubtedly being the biggest prohibitor - and yet still manage to pass through their own hard efforts. The revision classes being offered by Steve or Sandy are not intended as a substitute for structured learning, however structured learning isn't solely available through colleges and can still be achieved without the need to pay for professional help.

And can you at least please acknowledge the difference between fully taught classes which Steve and Sandy don't run but rather revision classes which they do? Maybe if it was the former, you'd arguably have a point, however since it's the latter - recognised by everyone here apart from you - then your point becomes increasingly redundant.

Personally, simply digging yourself further into this hole without the good grace to accept you may have possibly judged this one wrong has not been a good tactic for someone of your standing.

Rinske

beverly hudson wrote: »

I think people are misconstruing my point. I accept Steve and sandy are highly respected but that is not the point I am making. The point I am emphasising is that a tutor needs to be full time.

I strongly disagree with you that teachers should be full time, as in my experience there is no easier way to keep up to date with the latest changes then to work in the environment of the job.

beverly hudson wrote: »

Teaching is much more than just teaching a subject, you have to be a jack of all trades such as counsellor and this is my point. Courses which simply teach the technicalities don't always work. This can lead to all sorts of problems and mistakes being made..

Steve and Sandy both profile their courses as revision courses on the specific subjects. They do offer a lot more, but I think you got yourself confused as to what the difference between revision and full time courses. Revision courses are specific on the subject of the exam and focus on the information you need to know for the exam and how to study this and all the extra explanations that you might need. But they don't focus on how to do things if you would work in such and such company, although this may differ for examples or specific situations.

beverly hudson wrote: »

I have not questioned steves ability to answer questions in here and his answers are of a good standard but it is one thing answering questions on a forum and teaching in class. .

I'm sure there is a great difference, but Steve takes great pride in preparing for his classes and is quite clear in the fact he doesn't want to give these classes, because he hasn't got enough time to properly prepare his classes.

beverly hudson wrote: »

I will close by saying that I have not questioned anybodys skills but as a full time tutor I firmly believe students should be in a structured environment.

I suppose that also means you are against distance learning and any student just buying the books and doing it on their own?
That's what I read in your post. Students should be in a structured environment, but those who work full time, don't always have the time and not everyone has the money available to go to college. There is no guarantee they will have or use the structured environment at home. Does that mean these students should not be studying?

I think it's very odd that you keep saying you don't doubt their abilities or skills, but actually the posts you make sound as the opposite and do it anyways...

I'll close by saying that I really respect Steve and Sandy and the commitment they made towards all (AAT) students in regards to offering free help, study support and even revision courses in their own free time, just to help the students.

Cheers,
Rinske

Gem7321

Beverly, you claim to be a full time tutor and that full time tutors are always up to date with the syllabus, yet you didn't even know the audit thresholds until a few weeks ago! On this basis I'd be seriously doubting the credibility of the AAT approval system, that is if you are actually 'approved' as you keep indicating.

Again, I'd be really interested to know where you teach.

Londina

Beverly why don't you talk about yourself a bit more instead talking always about Sandy & Steve?

Introduce yourself, who are you, where do you teach? which qualifications do you have? give us a link where we can check your credentials....

Primble

Londina wrote: »

Beverly why don't you talk about yourself a bit more instead talking always about Sandy & Steve?

Introduce yourself, who are you, where do you teach? which qualifications do you have? give us a link where we can check your credentials....

I'm a distance learning student/ am i not going to be good enough?

Beverly, who are you affliated with? I would cetainly avoid them