Unfair Situations

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Marky Astra
Marky Astra Registered Posts: 45 Regular contributor ⭐
Hi all,

I Would like some advice or discussion if anyone has been in a similar position to this...

I work at a small accountany practice, and i have 2 colleagues who complete similar work to myself. My boss has just been asked if he could complete some bookkeeping for one of his clients as the bookkeeper has just left them.

My boss has then asked my two colleagues if they would like to complete the work as additional work for a fee (i believe of their choice - and not overtime fees), both of which said no.

My boss has then asked me to complete the work during my working hours (after himself, explaining to me he has offered it to the two colleagues of mine for them to complete as additional work and both rejecting the offer).

Now i would like to earn some more money so i would be happy to complete the work either as overtime or additional work but my boss has instructed me to complete the work in working hours. Has anyone else been in a similar situation or can anyone give me adivce on how i could ask this work to be additional work or is this a fair situation and im completely in the wrong?

Any replies welcome.

Marcus
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  • sdv
    sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Unfair situation?

    Not at all. If you think it's unfair, then you have every right to exercise your option to quit. If you continue to work there then it's obvious that the deal is fair because it's acceptable to you and your employer, to be employed as a ....................

    In real world there will be situations where you may think that it's unfair, but the employer may think that it's his right to ask you to complete that work under the contract of employment. ( hence the birth of the trade unions)

    Practically, your colleagues may have been working there more then you. They may have more experience then you. Their work may be more reliable then yours (in your employer's opinion) and therefore it may not require to be reviewed, because they know the company's way. Your colleagues may have negotiated that after completing an agreed amount of work, they could be offered work on a sub-contract basis.

    I know in practice, an accountant/a bookkeeper is required to bill 3 times his salary to the company's clients.

    Do you have that sort of policy in your company?
    Have you negotaited with your boss the same terms as your colleagues?
    Do you have the same level of experience as your colleagues?

    It is common in a small accounting practice to offer a sub-contract work to outside bookkeepers and sometimes to it's own employees on a similar basis. (An interesting senario to consider the status of that contract? is it a self employed or an employment contract?)

    I beleive you need to win the trust and respect of your boss to be able for him to offer you the sub contract work. The questions is not that he is unfair, but why is he not offering you that sub contract? you need to speak to him and win him over.

    I hope you resolve this to the satisfaction of your expectations.
  • Marky Astra
    Marky Astra Registered Posts: 45 Regular contributor ⭐
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    sdv wrote: »
    Do you have that sort of policy in your company?
    Have you negotaited with your boss the same terms as your colleagues?
    Do you have the same level of experience as your colleagues?

    one of my colleagues has had previous bookkeeping jobs for her own clients and therefore thats why she was asked first.

    There is no policy in place regarding sub-contracting work (spoken to the colleages about it).

    Same level experience as the 2nd one asked, and currently i have the highest amount of clients designated by my boss, so wouldn't believe he doesnt think my work is not up to the standard.
  • sdv
    sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Same level experience as the 2nd one asked, and currently i have the highest amount of clients designated by my boss, so wouldn't believe he doesnt think my work is not up to the standard.

    In that case,

    bite the bullet for now!

    in a couple of week's time approch your boss when he is in a relaxed mood and ask/inform that you'd like be be considered for a sub-contract work as when it arises.

    A friendly approch will always bear fruit much quicker.
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Edit: was typing this while posts 3 & 4 were being posted so this reply is to posts 1 and 2:

    As an employer, I'd feel very uncomfortable offering my existing bookkeeping employees sub contract work in their own time. I'd likely be setting myself up for an employment status fail. Maybe that's why he changed his tack after the other two declined? Maybe the other two have different employment contracts to you (which is between your boss and them)?

    I don't know what the deal is with bookkeeping in your practice; in mine we do bookkeeping regularly, charge it out to clients, and we pay our bookkeepers under PAYE for the work done. Therefore asking you to do it in your normal working hours seems very reasonable. If your set-up is different then it might seem less reasonable. I wouldn't entertain the thought of using subcontractors or engaging existing employees as 'self-employed' doing the same type of work they do during working hours.

    As sdv says, you need to talk to your boss if you feel it's unfair.
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    I pretty much agree with SDV, its one of those things where its tough...

    And in the current economic climate its hard to argue as much with employers.

    We just had some new people start, the first one of them did was to argue how long the lunch break was. Straight away it turns the managers against you!
  • Marky Astra
    Marky Astra Registered Posts: 45 Regular contributor ⭐
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    Well, i dont really have an issue with doing the work as i feel any work is good experience, but it was my colleagues which have said to me its unfair my boss offering it us for extra money than offering for you in work time. Thats why i believe they wouldnt have different contracts. I think i will raise the point with my boss and maybe just ask why i've been offered to do the same job differently
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Well, i dont really have an issue with doing the work as i feel any work is good experience, but it was my colleagues which have said to me its unfair my boss offering it us for extra money than offering for you in work time. Thats why i believe they wouldnt have different contracts. I think i will raise the point with my boss and maybe just ask why i've been offered to do the same job differently

    Maybe your boss thinks you have capacity to do it within work time. Why's this? Maybe this is what you need to resolve.
  • Marky Astra
    Marky Astra Registered Posts: 45 Regular contributor ⭐
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    Im not sure, he keeps piling jobs onto me so they keep building up, hes even taken some off colleagues to give to me
  • sdv
    sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Im not sure, he keeps piling jobs onto me so they keep building up, hes even taken some off colleagues to give to me

    Sorry to be cynicle.

    Could this be the result of the office politics?

    A colleague prompting you "why haven't you been offered this work on a sub-contract basis"?

    Boss taking away work from your colleagues and passing it on to you. Was there a conversation to which you were not a privey?

    I don't mean to stir here. But being an accountant, we are very suspecious of other motives.
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    sdv wrote: »
    But being an accountant, we are very suspecious of other motives.

    Ah good, I thought it was just me watching too much Mentalist and Sherlock Holmes..
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    well you wana be in my situation at work:- Sorry Very Large rant to follow

    Back in October if any of you remember i was told my job would be upgraded and i would start to produce self assessment returns with training from my manager and full accounts from start to finish after April.

    We are now in August and i am currently looking for work due to the fact (not the only reason but a major factor) but now i am currently doing the job i was doing 5 years ago before i started doing the AAT.

    Typing up letters filing meeting and greeting clients making coffees and almost all jobs that are allocated to me are now been given to part time trainees that havnt even completed their first year who are actually coming to me and asking what cost of sales are and what is the difference between a statement and an invoice and if they should put the statement in as a VAT invoice (really).

    I cant compete with doing work for nothing (they want the experience) but 5 years and two offices set up for them (when i started they didnt even have a telephone computer or anything) does loyality and hard work weekends given up and study count for nothing, i guess not!

    I am at a loss and dont understand what is going on? i have spoken with my manager regarding this but even she hasnt a clue what is going on.

    I did ask my boss when my job would be upgraded and the reply i received was when you can teach the office assistant to do your job????? what to type letters and make coffees????

    Its not as if i dont bring in Revenue with the job i do because i know the payroll work i completed in may alone almost doubled the wage i receive.

    Am i being a mug or parionode but do i jump before am pushed out????
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Just to add there is a horried atomosphere in the office and the new people been brough in its as if they have been told to not even talk to us upstairs
  • sdv
    sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
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    A-Vic wrote: »

    .................. but now i am currently doing the job i was doing 5 years ago before i started doing the AAT.

    5 years at the same job! That's just too long. You will be taken for granted! The OLD reliable A-Vic........... you have become part of the office who will always be there, come what may!

    There is good news and bad news.

    Good news first. There is lots of accounting work out there. I know I will be hammered by saying this, but that's our experience and you only have to read the expectations of TOP 5 AccountingWEB's Progressive Practice of 2010.

    They are growing a phenomenal rate (all of them)

    The BAD NEWS, people looking to change jobs NOW have a negetive perception of getting a job in the "current economic climate"

    The current advise is likely to "ride it out". But now is an ideal oppertunity to move.

    Show that confidence and you will be rewarded!
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Thanks sdv thats the thing tho i was progressing doing VAT Accounts dealing with HMRC clients the works but a lot of things has changed which has me at a loss it seems like once i got to level 4 the job went downhill, the one good thing is my wages havnt gone down, But money isnt everything.

    On a possitive i have gained a lot of experience and my CV is looking fairly strong so will stay till i manage to secure something.
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    sdv wrote: »
    5 years at the same job! That's just too long. You will be taken for granted! The OLD reliable A-Vic........... you have become part of the office who will always be there, come what may!

    May have been said a little tongue in cheek but a lot of truth to it.

    I've worked at the same place a long time.. But new people are often praised for bringing in new ideas, so much for loyalty :(
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    PGM wrote: »
    May have been said a little tongue in cheek but a lot of truth to it.

    I've worked at the same place a long time.. But new people are often praised for bringing in new ideas, so much for loyalty :(
    yep, sounds familiar, I stuck in the same job for too long back a couple of years ago. In the end I swapped over, because I was fed up with it, new colleagues got all the praise for being so great, while before that I did the exact same thing and it was not good enough (there really was no difference in the suggestion and the way the work was done).

    Once I swapped jobs, I started earning 500 Euro more per month for less hours...

    Time to move on if you ask me.
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    and am i the only one that noticed the old reliable vic with old in caps????
  • Andypandy
    Andypandy Registered Posts: 526 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Time to start with a few new job applications A Vic - show 'em your worth girl!
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    But to continue i will say i might be disgrumpled at the moment however i am sad to go i loved the challenge the job gave me over the years.

    But for people looking for work in practise dont be discouraged by what ive said it is a good starting point working in small pratise. But totally agree with whats been said, and do think if i am to grow in a company i have to look for a bigger firm that gives oppertunity to rise.

    So if any PWC or KPMG head hunters lurking on here hire me pleaseeee lol
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Andypandy wrote: »
    Time to start with a few new job applications A Vic - show 'em your worth girl!

    Sure will :)
  • Andypandy
    Andypandy Registered Posts: 526 Epic contributor 🐘
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    KPMG are recruiting now for October - the folks I met today were lovely, give them a call. x
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Interesting will have a look thanks
  • jilt
    jilt Registered Posts: 2,903 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    A-Vic wrote: »
    Interesting will have a look thanks

    Oi! Thought you were coming to work with me :lol:

    Seriously though, there's a really god job out there with your name on.
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    jilt wrote: »
    Oi! Thought you were coming to work with me

    Seriously though, there's a really god job out there with your name on.

    Cheers Jill - and keep that desk clean and polished who knows one day you will get me that lunch :) lol
  • jilt
    jilt Registered Posts: 2,903 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    A-Vic wrote: »
    Cheers Jill - and keep that desk clean and polished who knows one day you will get me that lunch :) lol

    Speaking of keeping it clean I forgot to tell you, a client came in the other week with her young son and he was smitten with Hetty, thought I was gonna lose her!
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    jilt wrote: »
    Speaking of keeping it clean I forgot to tell you, a client came in the other week with her young son and he was smitten with Hetty, thought I was gonna lose her!

    Did you get her working? Hows that other new client going? An tell him from me if he takes hetty i will hunt him down lol
  • jilt
    jilt Registered Posts: 2,903 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    A-Vic wrote: »
    Did you get her working? Hows that other new client going? An tell him from me if he takes hetty i will hunt him down lol

    Oh yeah she works, poor girl was on and off like a red traffic light!

    Which new client we talking about?
  • sdv
    sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
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    A-Vic wrote: »
    and am i the only one that noticed the old reliable vic with old in caps????

    I am sorry if I have given a wrong impression. By putting old in CAPS, it wasn't meant to refer to your age. You are at the RIGHT AGE to be employed by any accountants firm.

    Mature
    Full of life experience
    Dedicated
    Responsible
    Sensible
    Stable
    Should be experienced in dealing difficult matters with tact
    Late nights... yes! with responsibility


    and I could go on......

    No when I said OLD, I meant that you will always be there reliably!
  • jilt
    jilt Registered Posts: 2,903 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    sdv wrote: »
    No when I said OLD, I meant that you will always be there reliably!

    Go on keep digging :lol:
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    jilt wrote: »
    Go on keep digging

    Down Jill stop picking on him he is being helpful lol .

    Thanks sdv :) sorry was only teasing no offence taken at all
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