AAT BUT NO JOB IN Accountancy
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And lord knows how many spelling mistakes there was in that lot0
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University education has certainly been devalued over the years and it is far to easy to get into university now.
I'm not saying all universities and courses are poor because there are some very good universities and courses available.
I was eligible for university in 2000 but chose not to attend. Some of my peers got university places with D and E grades at A-level. I just think that is so wrong.
In hindsight I'm happier to have taken the AAT route and feel my qualification is respected in the accountancy job market and feel sure my studies at ACCA wil be far more respected by future employers than a degree.
Unfortunately many still wish to perpetuate the myth that not attending university will in some way hamper your future success in the job market. However, my only regret is not starting AAT at 18 or 19 years old.0 -
Today i feel it is a lot better, pass rates have improved, expectations have improved, and disagree or not but first hand knowleadge has shown me how much harder GCSE's and A-Levels are but how many more kids are applying to university is testiment to the improvements made over the last 23 years.
The problem with pass rates increasing is the exams are getting easier relative to the average person sitting the test.
The qualification is then devalued as an indicator of the more inteligent segment of society.
Its ok for the universities ticking all the boxes and reporting better performance, but not as appealing to employers.0 -
Today i feel it is a lot better, pass rates have improved, expectations have improved, and disagree or not but first hand knowleadge has shown me how much harder GCSE's and A-Levels are but how many more kids are applying to university is testiment to the improvements made over the last 23 years.
Expectations have improved to the point where we now have an entire generation of narcissistic graduates who feel they're entitled to more than they're realistically worth. Subscribe to that and it's clear that standards are not improving but actually declining and potentially endangering our future way of life. Some of these thirty-somethings are forming UK economy changing policies and they're not doing a good job.
Why? The sad outflow of manufacturing abroad where manufacturers don't have to pay high wages for over-qualified, under-experienced employees in my opinion has partly gone hand in hand with the rise of universities. They also don't have to contend with endless legislation regarding trendy health and safety theories and "radical" (aka overly polite) employee laws that prohibit employers rather than helping them. Why make something in the UK for ten pounds with one pound profit when you can import it almost as good from China for one pound with ten pounds profit?
It's a vicious cycle. We want higher wages so we can buy more crap we arguably don't actually need and the only way for manufacturers to make those products affordably cheaper but still profitable for them is to consider foreign imports/UK wage cuts. So much has gone abroad that the employment pool is now empty for newly qualified graduates looking to earn £30k just because they've got a degree.
Personally, I think we're f*cked but hey, I'm a pessimist!0 -
The difference i see is university is now a lot more avaliable to all unlike years past that it dependend on your brackground and the size of your famlies wallet (and sad to say yes it still happens today with certain courses i.e. law) and at the end of the day shouldnt this be the case?
I would like to say at my college the NVQ qualifaction was only avaliable to the full timers and with that route on job training was avaliable. But is that the job of the AAT NO! Like any other accountancy based examining boards.
They do offer CPD and before MAAT is gained you have to show a certain level of knowleadge (thank goodness) in either practise or industry or if you dont have this but later on decide or manage to gain th skills required you can apply. Also even if you decide you dont want to apply am sure and i know i would choose a candidate who shows the level of commitment that you show when gaining this qualifaction.0 -
Think I've gone way off topic but WTF!0
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ouch Robert glass half full
funny thing is we are human it is part of us and instilled in us as children and as a nation to do better be better and yes today you do need GCSE's to shelf stack in tesco's but its nice to know at least they can read the lables.
and come on we were them annoying teenagers at one stage o good greif flash of robert as a teen lol sorry.
You will never be able to devalue education to me being the person i am and was and what it has taken to get where i am today and people i have seen never reach their true potential without it.0 -
Anyway back on topic as suggested
The AAT as far as i have seen is widely reconised in my area although i do have one or two issues of our branch been lacking in events ect every agency and job application (financial)has required and inquired whether or not i have AAT qualifactions.0 -
I dont believe its easier now than in the 80's/early 90's. I left school in 89, went to college but didnt want to go university (I could have got a grant, which you didnt have to pay back then, so I dont think lack of money stopped people), alot of my friends did. They went to uni despite having "not fantastic" a-level grades and came out with less than mediocre degrees, couldnt get jobs and either ended up doing similar jobs to me or went on to do pgce and get jobs as teachers!!!! At that time if you didnt get the degree you wanted you just opted for sociology and swapped to the one you got declined from after a couple of weeks!0
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Anyway back on topic as suggested
The AAT as far as i have seen is widely reconised in my area although i do have one or two issues of our branch been lacking in events ect every agency and job application (financial)has required and inquired whether or not i have AAT qualifactions.
I agree that AAT is widely recognised in practice, its the SME/private sector who dont seem to have a clue what it is. Thats why I think the AAT should target their marketing at this sector to enable better regonition. We are told the AAT isnt just for Practice.0 -
too many colleges changed it name to uni that why .I don't think that a good idea because If you go to uni and have degree and come out with a big debt but don't have job to go for .Like AAT happy to get money from students even though they know that too many people doing it. Just have a look at some colleges they run every aat courses and Sat as well .0
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I agree that AAT is widely recognised in practice, its the SME/private sector who dont seem to have a clue what it is. Thats why I think the AAT should target their marketing at this sector to enable better regonition. We are told the AAT isnt just for Practice.
Actually I disagree with this. Yes, small industry companies may not never heard about the AAT, just the job that they offer I think it's more suitable for an AAT member.
In practice you deal with different companies with different needs, therefore the knowledge of the person who deals with their accounts has to be wide, but the AAT subjects don't cover everything that ACCA, CIMA, ACA teach.
I worked in industry, now in practice and I can see this situation!0 -
Actually I disagree with this. Yes, small industry companies may not never heard about the AAT, just the job that they offer I think it's more suitable for an AAT member.
In practice you deal with different companies with different needs, therefore the knowledge of the person who deals with their accounts has to be wide, but the AAT subjects are lower than those with ACCA, CIMA, ACA, etc....
I worked in industry, now in practice and I can see this situation!
Ive heard this a few times and it was reasons given why jobs i applied for in industry turned me down they wanted someone with more detailed knowleadge0 -
Ive heard this a few times and it was reasons given why jobs i applied for in industry turned me down they wanted someone with more detailed knowleadge
you mean, you applied to job in practice and they turned you down?
I think it's easier to get into industry than practice for an AAT person0 -
really!??! But have you ever worked in industry before?
For me, since I worked in both, I have been offered more positions in industry than pratice, I choosed practice because I want to learn more, but omg is much harder than working for just one company!0 -
AAT will be recognised more in practice as that's it's core application but it's not unknown in industry either and usually depends on the own knowledge of the heads of finance. Qualified professionals will certainly be aware of it, talented amateurs may not.
I was thinking this morning about the shift from NVQ based to Diploma based to whatever's coming next and it's arguable that the AAT themselves are dumbing down their own qualification due to the current job market (or lack of it). Under the old NVQ route, on-the-job experience was almost a mandatory requirement of passing and as such, a surefire symbol of quality. The removal of experience means that there are now people passing their studies without bridging the gap between learned and applied knowledge. And that's where we could have a problem.
Yes, the qualification needs to be kept contemporary and alive but not at the sacrifice of it's own trusted integrity.0 -
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I think the AAT qualification is a strong proving ground as to whether a person has the aptitude to cope in a practical environment.
Every student is subject to the same requirements, so a pass in an exam or skills test proves competency in a specific area.
Work experience is very important and as I've said previously it is very important the AAT does more to support students in making the transition from the exam room to the workplace.0 -
I think the AAT qualification is a strong proving ground as to whether a person has the aptitude to cope in a practical environment.
Every student is subject to the same requirements, so a pass in an exam or skills test proves competency in a specific area.
Actually with the current qual you got the NVQ route that expects work experience besides it and you got the Diploma route which understands not everyone has the work experience and therefore slightly differs in study material/ expectations and so on.
Merging these two different study ways to one where you don't need the work experience at all, seems odd to me. Granted you learn a lot from books, but a lot is clearer when you use it in practice and I still think you learn a lot from actually using your skills, rather than just reading the books...
Skilltests and exams both only test a subject for a limited amount of time and in a limited way. Depending on the subject this can be a lot or it can be just a small bit of all topics. I don't think it's fair to now expect people with work experience and without work experience to know the same thing, do the same thing, learn the same thing and agree with Blobby that this might mean the qualification is actually dumbing down. However, without seeing the actual requirements of the new qualification, I can't judge this and I haven't really looked into it yet.Work experience is very important and as I've said previously it is very important the AAT does more to support students in making the transition from the exam room to the workplace.
AAT has no obligation whatsoever to students to support them in finding a job. AAT offers a qualification, which gives you a skillset you can apply in your role or a job and yes, although I think they might need to do some PR or marketing to value the qualification (which was suggested earlier in the thread), but seriously you cannot expect the AAT to help you to a job or help you find a job.
However earlier in this thread, you clearly disagreed on this point already and I doubt a lot has changed since then...0 -
Every student is subject to the same requirements, so a pass in an exam or skills test proves competency in a specific area.
I think it's certainly a good foundation but to imply it proves overall competency is like saying passing a driving test in a simulator is as good as passing it on a public road.0 -
I have stated an opinion Rinske and nothing more. It is my own personal subjective evaluation of what AAT offers as a body.
I'm not expecting AAT as a body to find a job for myself or any other student in accountancy. I just feel the AAT could invest a little more time and money in improving the networking opportunties between student and employer.
This could simply be achieved through career open days to be held regionally or a better online job database which connects students with employers or voluntary organisations who might require the services of an AAT student.
Please don't forget AAT supports CPD and provides support to members in practice. These are all ancilliary services which are there to support students after completion of AAT.
I believe deeply in the need to help and support AAT students past and present rather than adopting a lazy laissez-faire attitude.
I appreciate there are AAT qualified people who already have jobs and experience and don't have to worry about this problem but there are a lot who need a helping hand and at the end of the day why should we restrict giving help to these people just because others have had to struggle to find suitable experience in the past?0 -
I said it provides a proving ground blobby, nothing more.
Nothing in this life is certain but if you prove your aptitude for accounts work at AAT level then it provides an indicator of how you will probably perform in a practical environment.
Not long ago I was asked to perform a sales and purchase ledger control account reconciliation at work for the first time. I was able to perform it perfectly because I largely used the knowledge acquired in my studies to complete it.
Without my AAT training I would not have known where to start.0 -
i have certainly found this thread interesting and it has opened my eyes to things i didn't understand when enrolling for AAT. I find exams hard and I find having to teach things to myself just as hard. with that in mind when i progress onto cima i will do an evening course. however, when i enrolled with AAT i picked diploma route as in my naievity i thought nvq was just for people who's work was putting them through the qualification. i am working in an accounts role and have been for three years but i wanted my studying to be seperate so if i wanted to change jobs i could without worrying about paying any course fees back.
I chose accounts because i liked the accounts part of GCSE business studies so then went on to do a level accounts. like i say i struggle with exams so i didn't do overly well. I did look into uni but it didn't seem right for me (which was then folowed by not doing well enough anyway) Picking to do aat whilst working gave me the independance. i have looked at job sites and people do ask for aat. i am so glad i done it.0 -
It's the best thing I ever did, & I'm kind of glad that I took 20 years out after my A levels with child rearing to discover where my passion lies. At 18 I thought it was with pure maths, but couldn't stand the thought of teaching. Now that I know that I love helping others & saving small companies I'm in my element at last.0
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Not long ago I was asked to perform a sales and purchase ledger control account reconciliation at work for the first time. I was able to perform it perfectly because I largely used the knowledge acquired in my studies to complete it.
Without my AAT training I would not have known where to start.
I don't disagree with that as neither would I. AAT trained candidates are certainly better than those with no training at all and even though I've only been in accounts for six years now, I've occasionally come across certain people who have been doing it for twenty years with many of those years either spent doing things to an out of date standard or wrong completely!
Passing a skills test doesn't necessarily prove competency in a real life situation but it will mean you'll be approaching it correctly and to a modern standard.0 -
AAT just train you to past exam in the real life I think would be very difference from it .I never work in accountancy but I could imagine most stuffs nowadays is is automatic work out buy computer. input invoice and process a payment (pass AAT just can work as accountant assistant anyway may be payroll if we lucky to see how much all bosses get pay )I can't see people out there these days do double entry on paper .0
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exam panic wrote: »AAT just train you to past exam in the real life I think would be very difference from it .I never work in accountancy but I could imagine most stuffs nowadays is is automatic work out buy computer. input invoice and process a payment (pass AAT just can work as accountant assistant anyway may be payroll if we lucky to see how much all bosses get pay )I can't see people out there these days do double entry on paper .
Actually we do sometimes - all my accounts are computerised but only today I wrote out a series of journals by hand. We sold a fixed asset (big yellow American schoolbus) and I wanted to ensure all my calculations were correct for the disposal (VAT margin scheme, accumulated depreciation etc).
Knowing how to do manual journals is vital as too much reliance on computers without knowing the practical theory will lead to problems when something out of the ordinary comes up.0
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