Acca/att

CPenney

Hi all, I'm just looking for a bit of general advice !!
I am currently studying ACCA and am finding it all a bit of an uphill battle! All of the rules and regs around self employment limitations; having to complete all units within 5 years if you want certificate in audit etc are starting to make me wonder if I'm doing the right thing?
I KNOW for sure that specialising in tax is the route for me - without a shadow of a doubt - it's what I understand and love! ACCA seems to be more of a general accountancy qualification until you get to the 'P' papers where you chose which route to take. The ATT is starting to look more and more appealing to me - or is it worth me soldiering on for that 'Chartered' status?

Monsoon

It depends what you want to do career wise.

If you want to be employed, you will likely earn a higher salary as ACCA, though ATT is highly respected (but have no idea how it compares in terms of salary expectations).

If you want to run your own business, I would go MAAT ATT.

I knew from the word go that I wanted to work for myself and ACCA would be a hindrance not a help, thus I've done AAT and am studying ATT.

CPenney

Thanks Monsoon - I definately want to work for myself - has been the objective from day one - and as you rightly said - I am finding acca more of a hinderance than help at the moment Some serious thinking & decision making required I think.........x

Monsoon

CPenney wrote: »

Thanks Monsoon - I definately want to work for myself - has been the objective from day one - and as you rightly said - I am finding acca more of a hinderance than help at the moment. Some serious thinking & decision making required I think.........x

Good luck with whatever you decide. If you go ATT there are a bunch of us on here who've just started studying it, so plenty of support here, I know there's lots of ACCA students here too

Rachel

I really want to do the ATT aswell, it is just I don't thin at the moment I can afford it in cost or time. I keep going on to BPP and looking at the books.

RAS

I agree with Monsoon. In your circumstances, ACCA could be more of a hinderance than a help. Why don`t you try doing ATT one exam at a time (pretty sure ATT allow you to sit just the one at a time). Shouldn`t take up too much time doing the one exam and if you just do it home study, wouldn`t cost a fortune either. Good luck with it.

ema192

Hi,

I qualified last june and am MAAT, I started ATT in november i am doing the paper 2 business tax and accounting prinicples as it is the biggest in may and you only have to do four of the papers to become qualified and can then go onto chartered if you so wish. I am doing one paper at a time because it is expensive and i have taken the taught courses through BPP they have been really helpuful so far. I find tutor imput a must for my studies but everyone is different.

I hope this helps some what,

Emma

noodles

would you not have done business tax at AAT as I was hoping to be exempt of this paper. I am doing vat paper 5 in may and paper 1 in next sitting leaving ethics last. Sat here listening to vat lectures on the internet , feeling sleepy now!

JodieR

nscuffell wrote: »

would you not have done business tax at AAT as I was hoping to be exempt of this paper.

Wishful thinking there I'm afraid! The ATT paper is much more in-depth than what's covered at AAT.

noodles

now i am confused - Registered ATT students can use this form to apply for a credit in ATT Paper 2: Business Taxation and Accounting Principles. Applicants must supply documentary evidence that they are full members of the Association of Accounting Technicians (AAT) and have passed the AAT Unit 18: Preparing Business Taxation Computations paper. All ATT students who meet these criteria will be eligible to apply for this credit regardless of what modules of the ATT qualification they have yet to achieve. Students who have previously attempted Paper 2 and been unsuccessful and those for whom Paper 2 is the only outstanding module are also eligible to apply. Applications should normally be made before applying to sit Certificate papers in a given exam session, but we recognise that this may not always be possible.

Monsoon

If you took business tax at AAT you are exempt from the ATT BTAP paper. I didn't find this out til after I took the exam!!

JodieR

So sorry! Things must have changed a lot since I did my exams! I feel really old now

noodles

Thats okay Jodie, I had a mild panic attack which lead to a large glass of wine but now back to only 3 exams to take so smiling again!

Monsoon

JodieR wrote: »

So sorry! Things must have changed a lot since I did my exams! I feel really old now

You were still half right, the ATT paper is still far more in depth, I'm not sure i agree with the exemption as there are things on the syllabus that aren't covered in AAT BT. Also the form of the exam is harder; in AAT i finished with half to a third of the time to spare. With ATT I was writing furiously right up to the bell. :ohmy:

CPenney

I really like the sound of ATT - someone mentioned to me that you have to complete it in 2 years? Is that right? Also, if you did want to go on to chartered afterwards, what route would you go down? Would it still be ACCA but claiming additional exepmtions?

Monsoon

Not sure there are any exemptions but read recently that ATT is harder than acca tax modules, so might be worth asking.

You don't have to complete in 2 years but if you take longer you have to renew your certificate of competence in old modules by proving cpd.

CPenney

Ok.....so - I've been doing a lot of looking into ATT this weekend - seriously considering having to make the change from ACCA - has anyone here done ATT then gone on to any form of Chartered qualification? From ATT website looks as though the way to go would be CTA but not sure if that's the best route for me?! All I want is to setup my own practice working for SME's - earn enough money for a decent living (isn't that what we all want... house in the country....BMW....;) ), basically, your general high street accountant (not that I'm saying they all live in the country & drive BMW's!!). Thought ACCA was going to do that for me but even if I overcome the hurdle of not doing any tax work whilst studying how would I EVER get relevant professional experience as I really don't want to work for someone else! Also - do the other chartering bodies (CTA for example) place any restrictions on self employed work? Looked through website but couldn't find anything & I've given myself a headache going around in circles!x

Monsoon

CPenney wrote: »

.. house in the country....BMW....), basically, your general high street accountant

OMG you're stalking me!!! I actually live in the country, drive a 3 Series Compact (though it's my boyfriend's, not mine) and have a high street office

In my experience and opinion, MAAT ATT coupled with experience and CPD is more than enough to run your own business.

95% of clients don't care what qualification you have anyway.

I don't think CTA places any restrictions but if you only want to work for SMEs then ATT is likely enough. Hell, AAT is enough as long as you've got the experience and do extra study to fill the gaps.

If your goal is to work for yourself and run your own practice, then I would say getting experience is far more important than getting chartered.

CPenney

Haha! Monsoon How funy is that! Though I was thinking more the 1 series - just to start off! Everything you have said is sort of what I'm thinking myself - I just hate the thought that I'm 'giving up' on something - I can be a little stubborn at times! I sat my Technician Dec papers 5 1/2 months pregnant (having hot flushes because they sat me next to the radiator!) and the June papers when my little one was 10 weeks old! I seem to like to give myself a hard time! Maybe I should listen to sense (and you and my inner self) for a change!

Monsoon

Yes, you do like to push yourself!!

That reminds me of a lady in my Technician class who was pregnant. I think she sat one exam 10 days after giving birth.

I know what you mean about giving something up, it really does seem a shame to give up ACCA after getting part way through it. However, you have to look at your long term goals and if being stubborn and finishing what you have started is going to set you back, not forward, you may have to make that choice.

ACCA practising certificates are hard to get, as I understand it. All I can say is make sure you go to ACCA and get it from the horses mouth exactly what you have to do to get a PC with them. Then weigh up if its a help or a hindrance.

Good luck.

GinnyBee

What about work experience for ATT? The website says you need two years tax experience but does not go into detail, do they tell you more once registered?

If you were an MIP how would you get the experience signed off?

Sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions it's just very hard to find out this bit from the ATT website.

Thanks

CPenney

That's a good point! Well I'm 99% decided - think I'm going to ring att mon with a barrage of questions

Monsoon

I'm pretty sure that the requirements for getting your experience signed off are the same as for your professional referee who you need to be allowed in as a student member.i I think it just needs to be a qualified accountant; my nominee was a MAAT.

andrewtdk

Remember to become a member you need 2 people to recommend you not just 1 like when you register as a student.

On the form to apply for membership it asks for 2 people who are qualified accountants or current or previous employers in a relevant ocupation etc. They do have to sign that the "perticulars on the form are true" so i guess they would need some knowledge of your tax experience. Im sure the ATT will be able to clarify things for you though, the good thing with ATT is they seem to be easy to get hold of so you shouldnt be waiting on the phone for ages like a lot of companies

Monsoon

Ah thanks Andrew, I didn't know that.

CPenney

Sorry guys but I'm going to stir this whole thread up again - I WAS 99% decided that I couldn't continue with ACCA, phoned them to make extra extra sure that I was doing the right thing - spoke to a different guy (for about 20 mins) who told me that I could provide 'consultancy' to smaller businesses (he used the example of childminders, carpenter etc) in the way of 'tax advice' and 'management accounts' in order for them to complete their Self Assesment return - which I could 'help' them to do but could not do it for them or sign to say that I verified figures were correct. He even said that 'that's what AAT has qualified me to do so why shouldn't I be able to use it?' ARGHHHHH!! To be totally honest I dont know how they expect students not to be in contravention of any 'bye-laws' when the information is so vague and it all depends on who answers the phone to you! He gave me some advice as to where to research on their website which means another night infront of the computer trying to decide my own interpretation of what is written in black and white! And I hope these forums stay 'on record' so if I stay with ACCA and am ever accused of breaking any rules I can present them as my defense - to be fair so many people seem to have such different takes on the subject.

Rachel

It seems like the person you spoke to today seems to of worked out a "loop hole". If I was you I would try and get something in black and white as I didn't think consultancy was allowed either.

paulstafford

I agree with Rachel - the rule book is pretty explicit on this.

If you haven't already, it is worth looking at the type of post qualification experience ACCA expect you to achieve before they will hand out the Practising certificate. It is detailed in the 'Practising Certificate Training Record' (PCTR) form. I'd give you a link but the site is down.

I'm filling out these forms now and i've got 6+ years post qual experience to draw on to meet all their criteria. I'm not sure I would have obtained the required experience much sooner than this.

PeteLC

Hi all first post on here so take it easy on me.

I was reading through the ACCA rule book the other evening after looking on here but it just states that a relevant practising certificate is required.

Am I wrong in thinking that we receive a practising certificate from the AAT through being an MIP therefore not actually breaking any rules.

"Subject to regulation 3(1)(b), no member shall carry on public practice unless he holds a practising certificate which authorises the carrying on of the activity in question"

Monsoon

I would be pretty sure they mean an ACCA PC. This has been discussed at length and even full AAT MiPs are not allowed to do more than bookkeeping if an ACCA student or full memeber without an ACCA PC.

That's interesting though as that clause does seem open to interpretation. I would want ACCA's clarification in writing before I acted on it though, if it was me!

PeteLC

I will try and contact the ACCA and get some clarification but as mentioned earlier in this thread I think it will come down to who I speak to there.

Where does the AAT stand on all this has anyone spoken to them about it?