Ltd Co: accounts and CT600 different dates?

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Monsoon
Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
A Ltd Co has been DIY'ing their own accounts.

They've been filing accounts at CoHo with the ARD set as standard at CoHo.

They have been filing CT600s for 12 months with totally different year ends!

I think they've now extended their ARD to bring this in line but I may need to sort this out historically.

I'm having a mad moment - can they do that? Is that allowed? I guess it's just a case of drawing up 2 sets of accounts?

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  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    A Ltd Co has been DIY'ing their own accounts.

    They've been filing accounts at CoHo with the ARD set as standard at CoHo.

    They have been filing CT600s for 12 months with totally different year ends!

    I think they've now extended their ARD to bring this in line but I may need to sort this out historically.

    I'm having a mad moment - can they do that? Is that allowed? I guess it's just a case of drawing up 2 sets of accounts?

    Ignoring the historical stuff for now (let's assume it was all materially true and fair).... then yes, I can't see why they can't extend thier ARD with CoHo (so long as it does not exceed 18months) and then draw up two sets of accounts for CT600 - one for the small period between the last submitted CT600 and the date 12 months before the new ARD ends and then another CT600 for the last 12 months of the new ARD.

    As you know, just to refresh my own memory, CT600's cannot exceed 12 months but can be shorted and accounts with companies house cannot exceed 18 months but can be shorted. Right?
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    stefanboro wrote: »
    Ignoring the historical stuff for now (let's assume it was all materially true and fair).... then yes, I can't see why they can't extend thier ARD with CoHo (so long as it does not exceed 18months) and then draw up two sets of accounts for CT600 - one for the small period between the last submitted CT600 and the date 12 months before the new ARD ends and then another CT600 for the last 12 months of the new ARD.

    As you know, just to refresh my own memory, CT600's cannot exceed 12 months but can be shorted and accounts with companies house cannot exceed 18 months but can be shorted. Right?
    Yes that's all right.

    Sorry, I didn't phrase my question very well.

    Can a company continue to submit accounts to 30th June at CoHo, but CT600s to 31st December on an ongoing basis? i.e. have year ends that are not aligned for accounts and tax?
  • KaySarah
    KaySarah Registered Posts: 215 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    Yes that's all right.

    Sorry, I didn't phrase my question very well.

    Can a company continue to submit accounts to 30th June at CoHo, but CT600s to 31st December on an ongoing basis? i.e. have year ends that are not aligned for accounts and tax?

    Hi Monsoon,
    The answer is Yes.

    On the reverse of the CT603 it tells you about Accounting Periods for the CT600
    " Accounting period is a period for which profits & losses have to be calculated for CT purposes. It will usually, but not always coincide with the period of 12 months for which the Company draws up accounts ...

    BTW - I have obtained the details of a female professional photographer who is willing to do our "shoot" & who "will travel" :001_smile:
  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    Yes that's all right.

    Sorry, I didn't phrase my question very well.

    Can a company continue to submit accounts to 30th June at CoHo, but CT600s to 31st December on an ongoing basis? i.e. have year ends that are not aligned for accounts and tax?

    Ah right - well my understanding is that this is not a problem at all.

    Are you asking simply because this has been done historically? I assume it's not the intention going forward?
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    Can a company continue to submit accounts to 30th June at CoHo, but CT600s to 31st December on an ongoing basis? i.e. have year ends that are not aligned for accounts and tax?

    No, of course not.

    The accounting period determines the CT600 period. You cannot have them being different unless you have a long accounting period or another activating event during the period (e.g. cessation or commencement of trade). Aside from a few quirky '7 day either side' rules. Certainly not June for one and December for another.
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    No, of course not.

    The accounting period determines the CT600 period. You cannot have them being different unless you have a long accounting period or another activating event during the period (e.g. cessation or commencement of trade). Aside from a few quirky '7 day either side' rules. Certainly not June for one and December for another.
    Thanks Dean

    Even if they are drawing up 2 sets of accounts, one to one date and one to the other, i.e. the CT600 is accompanied by 12 months of accounts to 31 dec?

    Just trying to get all my ducks in a row before I decide how to proceed with them
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    The CT600 has to follow the filed statutory accounts. Any other accounts are just management accounts. The end of a financial accounting period signals the end of a corporation tax accounting period. But I know you know all this already.

    What accounting periods are they drawing up to?

    If HMRC get wind that their CT600s don't match the filed accounts they will update at their end and reject all the previously submitted CT600s. I had this happen to a new client I picked up recently and they got hit with late submission penalties for previous years (luckily only 2). Their year end was only 11 days out so I tried to do a cheeky extension to make it match but HMRC spotted it.
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    The CT600 has to follow the filed statutory accounts. Any other accounts are just management accounts. The end of a financial accounting period signals the end of a corporation tax accounting period. But I know you know all this already.

    What accounting periods are they drawing up to?

    If HMRC get wind that their CT600s don't match the filed accounts they will update at their end and reject all the previously submitted CT600s. I had this happen to a new client I picked up recently and they got hit with late submission penalties for previous years (luckily only 2). Their year end was only 11 days out so I tried to do a cheeky extension to make it match but HMRC spotted it.

    Thanks Dean. It totally threw me when I saw what they'd done and confuzzled my brain. Couldn't work out how to find out if that was possible or not.

    I think it's acutally Sep and Dec or Aug and Dec. Not sure how one goes about fixing it - too early on a Monday morning!
  • Dean
    Dean Registered Posts: 646 Epic contributor 🐘
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    You wish you did Corporate Tax now instead of VAT don't you? :D
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    No :lol:
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    HMRC CT office says:

    Extend accounting period to align them going forwards.

    No problem with prior periods as long as they get it right going forwards.

    Yes, I have a note of her name.
  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    HMRC CT office says:

    Extend accounting period to align them going forwards.

    No problem with prior periods as long as they get it right going forwards.

    Yes, I have a note of her name.

    Good - that's exactly the same response I got on a similar matter to this ergo my response above.
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