Quick question - CIS Monthly Returns

JamesB

Morning,

a friend of mine (who incidentally is completely useless with paperwork etc) started submitting paper monthly CIS returns but never took copies and cannot remember what he entered on any of them, and has no workings.

I asked him if he would have used the bank statements to get the info but he said no!

He has asked me to help him do the yearly P35 and to ensure he has done everything right.

I have gone through all the bank statements so now know how much he has paid to each subbie in the year, but only have copies of the monthly returns for 5th Feb / 5th Mar / 5th Apr so can't reconcile.

He rang up HMRC yesterday to ask them to tell him over the phone what he has submitted on each monthly return but they said they are not allowed to give this information, he will have to write a letter to request them.

My questions are:

1) is this true about not being able to get this info over the phone? seems daft to me and can't see a logical reason why they wouldn't give this info?

2) I am no CIS/Payroll expert so can someone explain how the P35 works and whether this is something that my mate should have received through the post to submit by now (he hasn't got anything). Will it come through automatically once the 5th Apr return has been submitted?

He is now registered online for CIS so will the P35 be available to file online?

Am I right in saying the P35 is simply you stating how much tax you have deducted from subbies for a year less how much tax you have passed onto HMRC = balance due to hmrc/owed to you.

Do you include the CIS tax suffered from the company on this return as well?


Thanks so much in advance for any replies.........I wish people would just be organised in life! it's not that hard is it??!!

J

T.C.

Can you confirm whether there is payroll and CIS? If only CIS then these are done monthly only.

JamesB

Hi TC,

sorry yeah CIS only.

The company are a contractor and sub-contractor.

Have no-one on the payroll.

Are you saying no P35 needs to be done then?

T.C.

CIS deductions from the contractor are paid every month. A CIS return is completed online for each month after the 5th, and the payment made by the 19th. No P35 necessary. Does that help?

groundy

I would advise he seeks the assistance of an accountant who is experiences in these matters. You state company but no payroll, what about the director?
No P35 would be sent in the post, if there is a PAYE scheme your friend must complete online, detailing PAYE deductions, CIS deductions, CIS suffered and amounts paid. Also if this is a Ltd company and there is a CIS refund due this will need to be claimed through a P35.
HMRC will give very little (if any) info over the phone, you need to write and request copies of the monthly returns submitted to ensure details on the P35 are accurate.

Dont mean to be dismissive with the comment regards consulting someone with experience but it is important these things are done right

JamesB

Thanks Groundy, I didn't think you were being dismissive!

-The directors are now set up for PAYE for the new tax year.

-What happens if I find out that he has omitted some payments from the previously submitted monthly returns once the copies come through from HMRC.

Can I simply include these in the yearly P35?

eg total CIS deducted from subbies for year per submitted monthly returns = £5k
actually deducted (calculated by me looking at what was paid via bank) = £10k

Can I put £10k as the figure on the P35 or are HMRC expecting this to be £5k seeing as that is what has been submitted?

hope that makes sense.

Thanks again guys, :thumbup1:
J

T.C.

How can the monthly returns be different from what was paid??? This sounds a bit worrying!

JamesB

I know, hence why I am now on board to ensure it all is 'tidied up' at the year end.

He is a typical tradesman, great at what he does but has no clue about paper work/figures etc.

He never used the bank statements to calculate what he paid (like most normal people would), he used time sheets and all other mad methods.

The main question outstanding is whether the tax deducted figure you add on to the P35 has to be the same as what you have entered on the monthly CIS returns.

If not it isn't a problem as I can add the correct figure to the P35.

J

groundy

You need to write to HMRC listing the the amendments to each of the monthly returns. There will be no penalty for making amendments. If the P35 figure does not match the monthly returns it will be queries plus it may hold up the subcontractors making a claim for a tax refund.

T.C.

You need to check if the monthly returns are up-to-date first, then check against the payment statements given to the subbies. I agree with groundy that you need to amend figures asap.

JodieR

I've not dealt with paper CIS returns for a long time, but I wonder if you set him up online you MAY be able to see details of what's been submitted? or have you tried this already?

stevo5678

Sounds like he will be very lucky if he is not fined heavily for this mess...

I have come across many CIS workers who struggle with this.

Definitely need to write off to HMRC and find out what figures they have first. They may ask you for your figures first (I'll show you mine if you show me yours!) so may as well attach this on the first letter.

groundy

stevo5678 wrote: »

Sounds like he will be very lucky if he is not fined heavily for this mess...

I have come across many CIS workers who struggle with this.

Definitely need to write off to HMRC and find out what figures they have first. They may ask you for your figures first (I'll show you mine if you show me yours!) so may as well attach this on the first letter.

There is no fine for amending a CIS return