MINI FEES SURVEY 2014

stevo5678stevo5678 Well-KnownCheltenham Registered Posts: 326
Hi all, I would love Monsoon to do her famous and very detailed fees survey for 2014 (last updated 2011 I believe). However I thought I would fire away a few questions to help gauge fees for services. It's purely for my own interest but I'm sure some others around here would find it a useful exercise.

Please state average fee for any of the following:

(YOU CAN ANSWER AS LITTLE OR AS MANY AS YOU WANT)

1) A meerkat tax return (Simples) - EG HR tax payer who needs to do a return or someone with shares etc
2) A tax return for someone who rents out a second property (and how much extra fees for additional properties).
3) A very small self-employed business - Very easy, EG A subbie with 12 months of 'slips' with some receipts etc or mobile hairdresser who keeps a spreadsheet...
4) A small sole trader non VAT registered and keep some sort of books EG a spreadsheet
5) Same as above but zero bookkeeping and tones of receipts all in a carrier bag!
6) A simple Ltd Co EG a contractor, freelancer, consultant etc but they don't keep their own books (just electronic copies of the bank statements and a spreadsheet say for expenses)
7) As above (6) but they keep their books on Xero and the bank balances :)
7b) Would you charge extra for a monthly directors payroll?
8) A small set up Ltd Co Eg 1 or 2 owners but large T/O say £750k and books are maintained to a good standard.

NOW SOME ROLE PLAY (It's not a test!)

9) SCENARIO 1 - Man arranges a meeting and says he's a web app developer sole trader and keeps books on Xero. T/O c£50k - Estimated fee?
10) SCENARIO 2 - Women arranges a meeting and has two years of accounts to do for her consultancy-esque businesses. Keeps no records, has tons of travel expenses plus bank statements (paper format) and sales invoices. How much do you charge

BONUS QUESTION - How much attention do you honestly pay to the fees charged by a previous accountant a) if the prospective client left on price and b) on service level?

Thank you for anyone interested in taking the time to answer ANY OF THE QUESTIONS.

Steve

Comments

  • burgburg Experienced Mentor GloucesterModerator, FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,440
    I thought I would give some answers as no one has as yet (all prices are plus VAT and where possible we try and insist on monthly fees so have indicated these and the annual charge if they chose the annual method)

    1) A meerkat tax return (Simples) - EG HR tax payer who needs to do a return or someone with shares etc
    £100
    2) A tax return for someone who rents out a second property (and how much extra fees for additional properties).
    £150 then £25 for each property
    3) A very small self-employed business - Very easy, EG A subbie with 12 months of 'slips' with some receipts etc or mobile hairdresser who keeps a spreadsheet...
    £250
    4) A small sole trader non VAT registered and keep some sort of books EG a spreadsheet
    £20 per month (£250)
    5) Same as above but zero bookkeeping and tones of receipts all in a carrier bag!
    Probably wouldn't take it on now. Would advice them to sort records out. If I did fee would be around £40 per month (£500)
    6) A simple Ltd Co EG a contractor, freelancer, consultant etc but they don't keep their own books (just electronic copies of the bank statements and a spreadsheet say for expenses)
    £45 per month (£550) if not VAT Reg. If on FRS then £50 per month (£620)
    7) As above (6) but they keep their books on Xero and the bank balances smile.png
    As 6. but I use Clearbooks and throw it in for free so it works out as £40 per month (£490) non VAT Reg and £45 per month (£550) FRS
    7b) Would you charge extra for a monthly directors payroll?
    No 2 x directors included as are personal tax return if basic.
    8) A small set up Ltd Co Eg 1 or 2 owners but large T/O say £750k and books are maintained to a good standard.
    Depends as I find these level of businesses vary in what they want in terms of VAT Returns, meetings, payroll etc. Accounts would start around £125 per month (£1600) and go up from there depending on other services.

    NOW SOME ROLE PLAY (It's not a test!)

    9) SCENARIO 1 - Man arranges a meeting and says he's a web app developer sole trader and keeps books on Xero. T/O c£50k - Estimated fee?
    £20 per month (£250)
    10) SCENARIO 2 - Women arranges a meeting and has two years of accounts to do for her consultancy-esque businesses. Keeps no records, has tons of travel expenses plus bank statements (paper format) and sales invoices. How much do you charge
    Another that I would be skeptical about taking on as she is behind and in a mess which usually means more headache than profit. She would need to analyse her expenses and get everything together and then it would be £250 up front for year one and £250 on completion of year 2 and then sort a monthly fee of around £20 (all assuming this is a sole trader) If Ltd then £550, £550, and £45

    BONUS QUESTION - How much attention do you honestly pay to the fees charged by a previous accountant a) if the prospective client left on price and b) on service level?

    I don't use other accountants charges to work out my fee. My fee is my fee whether that is higher or lower. Although at the higher end I have a bit of room for movement (but only a bit). We display prices for Sole Traders, Partnerships and Ltd Co's up to £250k (with tidy records) and for CIS Subcontractors, Basic Tax Returns and Property Landlords so these are all fixed with the only adjustments being based on services chosen. Above the £250k level it is harder to quote for all businesses so it is on a per client basis. I've quoted higher and lower than other accountants before but overall we know our recovery rates and I'm confident with our prices.

    Hope all of that helps you and others.
    Regards,

    Burg
  • stevo5678stevo5678 Well-Known Cheltenham Registered Posts: 326
    Thank you so much Burg, I was waiting for someone to kick it off! I will post mine this weekend to compare notes. Thanks again
  • JawzJawz New Member West MidlandsRegistered Posts: 53
    Thank you to Ian for a fantastic piece of information on FEES. Also thank you to Steve for taking the plunge to asked such a relevant question. Your comments will certainly help me (and I'm sure many others) from now on to the future. #Feesmatters

    Ali

  • stevo5678stevo5678 Well-Known Cheltenham Registered Posts: 326
    Thanks Burg again, and no worries Jawz, it's always interesting to talk number hence why we are all in this profession! My answers are in CAPS. I am not VAT registered.
    stevo5678 wrote: »
    Hi all, I would love Monsoon to do her famous and very detailed fees survey for 2014 (last updated 2011 I believe). However I thought I would fire away a few questions to help gauge fees for services. It's purely for my own interest but I'm sure some others around here would find it a useful exercise.

    Please state average fee for any of the following:

    (YOU CAN ANSWER AS LITTLE OR AS MANY AS YOU WANT)

    1) A meerkat tax return (Simples) - EG HR tax payer who needs to do a return or someone with shares etc
    £150-200

    2) A tax return for someone who rents out a second property (and how much extra fees for additional properties).
    £200+ 25-50
    3) A very small self-employed business - Very easy, EG A subbie with 12 months of 'slips' with some receipts etc or mobile hairdresser who keeps a spreadsheet...
    180-200
    4) A small sole trader non VAT registered and keep some sort of books EG a spreadsheet
    200-250
    5) Same as above but zero bookkeeping and tones of receipts all in a carrier bag!
    300 ISH MAYBE
    6) A simple Ltd Co EG a contractor, freelancer, consultant etc but they don't keep their own books (just electronic copies of the bank statements and a spreadsheet say for expenses)
    BETWEEN £40-90 A MONTH DEPENDING ON SERVICES
    7) As above (6) but they keep their books on Xero and the bank balances :)
    PRETTY MUCH THE SAME BUT THEY MAY GET MORE UP TO DATE INFO WHERE I DIP INTO THEIR SOFTWARE
    7b) Would you charge extra for a monthly directors payroll?
    NO
    8) A small set up Ltd Co Eg 1 or 2 owners but large T/O say £750k and books are maintained to a good standard.
    I'D SAY BETWEEN £100-200 A MONTH BUT REALLY DEPENDS ON SERVICES AND WHAT ADVICE AND SUPPORT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR

    NOW SOME ROLE PLAY (It's not a test!)

    9) SCENARIO 1 - Man arranges a meeting and says he's a web app developer sole trader and keeps books on Xero. T/O c£50k - Estimated fee?
    C£25 A MONTH
    10) SCENARIO 2 - Women arranges a meeting and has two years of accounts to do for her consultancy-esque businesses. Keeps no records, has tons of travel expenses plus bank statements (paper format) and sales invoices. How much do you charge
    PROBABLY BE LOOKING AT A MIN OF £300 PER YEAR

    BONUS QUESTION - How much attention do you honestly pay to the fees charged by a previous accountant a) if the prospective client left on price and b) on service level?
    THIS IS A FACTOR FOR ME BUT I TEND TO STICK WITHIN MY SET RANGE

    Thank you for anyone interested in taking the time to answer ANY OF THE QUESTIONS.

    Steve

    HOPEFULLY A COUPLE OF OTHERS WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE PLUNGE?
  • burgburg Experienced Mentor GloucesterModerator, FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,440
    If it would be of use to any fellow or prospective MIP's I'm happy to conduct a new survey. I would conduct the survey via PM or email and then results would be collated and put within Excel with results being anonymous (being identifiable to you only via a code). Hopefully this would encourage more responses.

    We could do with at least 5 to make it worthwhile. Doesn't matter if you are not 100% on your charging as the results will allow you to see how you compare.

    If you are interested then please send me a pm.

    Ian
    Regards,

    Burg
    StuartW
  • burgburg Experienced Mentor GloucesterModerator, FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,440
    I've set up a new thread to explain more and register your interest so see here - forums.aat.org.uk/discussion/440842/mip-fees-survey-how-much-should-i-charge#latest
    Regards,

    Burg
  • stevo5678stevo5678 Well-Known Cheltenham Registered Posts: 326
    Thanks - Just PM'd mine
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