accountant or not

System
System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
edited June 9 in AAT member discussion
There's been some interest recently in the moves in Ireland to restrict the use of the term accountant to members of certain accountancy bodies only. Does the AAT have a position on this as certain organisations (no names mentioned) seem keen to see the same restrictive practice introduced here. (In order to protect the public of course not their members fee income.)

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    There has been a lot of talk over the last few months about the various Chartered Institutes restricting the term accountant to only those who are Chartered/Certified/CIMA/CIPFA etc qualified accountants. The restriction is proposed to be the same as in the law profession i.e. only qualified Solicitors can refer to themselves as a Solicitor, which in turn denotes a professionally qualified individual.

    As far as AAT is concerned they have been quiet on the issue. Notably, once AAT qualified you are classed as an Accounting Technician so I wouldn't have thought that status would change as it is a professional qualification within its own right.

    The main reason the various institutes are wanting the term accountant to be restricted is to protect the profession from those unqualified, but yet, still offer a full accountancy service, which I think is not necessarily a bad thing.

    Kind regards
    Steve

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Hi. As a self employed AAT the problem I have always found with the term Accounting Technician is two fold.

    1. Despite the sterling efforts of the AAT it is still looked down upon by others in the accountancy profession. My most recent experience of this discrimination was when I replied to a flyer I received from a certain merger and acquisitions firm advertising a practice for sale near me. When I responded the agent refused to even shortlist me as (apparently) I am unqualified. So I was denied the chance to even meet with the seller. My AAT qualification and over 20 years self employed experience were totally ignored.

    2. To have different terminology creates confusion in the minds of the buying public (i.e. my potential clients). It's hard enough to get new business without having to try to explain the subtle distinction between an accountant and an accounting technician. Subtle that is unless you want to be able to do audit work which I would suspect few if any self employed AAT's do.

    I need to be able to call myself an accountant which is what I am and have been for many years. My qualification may be Accounting Technician but my job is as an accountant.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I agree entirely with your position. The unfortunate position accountants find themselves in is that over the years certain well publicised scandals have tarnished the reputation of us all. As a result the various institutes want the term "accountant" regulated. Whether or not the AAT will alter their "accounting technician" status remains to be seen, though personally I doubt it.

    I have ACCA as well as AAT and have recently been made FMAAT - I therefore see it from both points of view. The AAT has, unfortunately, always been referred to as the "junior" accounting qualification - however the syllabus structure (i.e. number of exams, optional units etc) and the mandatory rules relating to CPD are the same as for ACCA.

    The AAT are constantly looking at ways to raise the profile of their qualification, always with success. I would just sit and wait to see what happens because I don't think any changes will happen overnight. Even when (and if) they do, I'm sure the AAT will want to protect the professional stance that they have built up over the years.

    Regards
    Steve
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I would be surprised if these proposals ever got anywhere in the UK.

    The amount of legislature and regulation required to enact and precide over a protected term would have to be surpassed by the demonstrable and achievable benefits to the public of doing so.

    I think it is hard to argue a case for protecting the term 'accountant'.

    The only viable argument I have heard is that it would be in the public interest to protect businesses from unscrupulous persons who claim to be accountants yet do not have the ability to do the job.

    I cannot see how protecting the term 'accountant' would do anything to remedy this situation.

    There are just as many unscrupulous ACAs, ACCAs and AATs as there are unqualifieds in practice I'm sure. Protecting the term does nothing to protect their clients.

    And those with no scruples would continue to use the term anyway. I have come across accountants in the past who have claimed to be ACCA when they were not. At least they have the option of joining the ICPA now which can, although not always, be used to confuse the general public (not that I have anything against the ICPA as a trade organisation).

    From my point of view, I am an AAT member and I am an accountant. That's what I do.

    The ICAEW already has a protected term. i.e. "Chartered Accountant". It is up to them to create value in the term "Chartered" and I think it is their failure to do so which has lead them to pursue help from the government to protect the term for them.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Well said Dean -

    Claudia
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Hi

    Interesting to note that the front page of this new website says "Find an Accountant" for a section about AAT trained staff...

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Interesting yes..

    ..until you click on the link and it then says:

    Find a self-employed, AAT-qualified accounting technician

    Even the AAT itself has an identity problem. It would be nice to hear an official response by the AAT to this debate.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not
    deanshepherd wrote:
    From my point of view, I am an AAT member and I am an accountant. That's what I do.

    The ICAEW already has a protected term. i.e. "Chartered Accountant". It is up to them to create value in the term "Chartered" and I think it is their failure to do so which has lead them to pursue help from the government to protect the term for them.

    I spend all day doing accounting, and have spent the morning in the second (of four) audits with one of 3 teams of auditors, our accounts have a turnover of tens of millions per year (current assets nearly £10M) and I am the sole person who works on them full-time, and produces the period end reports adn Year End statements. I am an accountant.

    It's a bit like the term "medic" - a hospital consultant/surgeon and a nurse are both medics. But the doctor is called Doctor and the surgeon is called "mister" :) (equates to Chartered Accountant), the nurse is like the Accounting Technician. But they're all medics :)
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Michael Izza ICAEW CEO designate has already made it quite clear where he stands on this issue and he isn't even in office yet. (See the accounting web website for what his comments). Whether Government agrees with him remains to be seen but I believe we need to make our stand now not wait until others have taken the initiative. In short lets get proactive not reactive!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I think that people are getting concerned about the wrong thing :shock:

    In any industry/profession you are going to get good guys and bad guys whatever their title. Just because someone is an Accountant instead on an accountant that doesn't necessarily make them any better at the job.

    It would make far more sense to regulate that everyone involved in accounting has adequate PI insurance - the bad uns would be weeded out by not being able to get insurance.

    IMHO :wink:

    Claudia
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Yes. This guy is interesting.

    "I regularly hear from small practitioners about how members of the public go into offices thinking they are talking to a qualified accountant but don't get a good service. When their accounts end up in a mess it is our members that have to sort them out. Government must deal with it and I hope that the current Irish consultation will spur ministers into action."

    When he says "..When their accounts end up in a mess it is our members that have to sort them out.." one wonders whose members made the mess in the first place!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I'm not sure about that quote - I think the guy may be tarnishing all unqualifieds with the same brush which I think may cause outcry (and rightly so). It is only the minority (in my opinion) that are the scallywags of the profession.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I don't have a problem with the objective, just the assertion that all ICAEW members are competent and all non-ICAEW members are incompetent.

    I firmly believe they are pursuing protection of the term 'accountant' for their own financial gain and not nobly for the benefit of the general public.

    They are kidding themselves if they think professionalism is down to qualifications.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Hi Dean,

    I haven't seen the exact quote but from the quote you have transcribed above it does seem that he is saying that all ICAEW members seem to sort out problematic non-qualifieds. Seems like Mr Izza is talking through his hat. Just to bounce back, I have recently sorted out a client who's previous years were prepared by an ICAEW member (per their notepaper) and the accounts were absolutely dreadful in fact they were prepared on Excel and didn't even balance. The result was a prior year adjustment of over £500k!

    Just out of interest Dean, where did you read this article.

    Regards
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    Link 1

    Link 2
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:accountant or not

    I recently became a Fellow Member of the AAT and have worked within Chartered Accountancy practice since 1991. I am a manager within a branch office of a top 30 firm. I have a small portfolio of 15 personal clients and so I am also a Member In Practice. I attend at least 30 hours of CPD courses per year. In terms of my experience and the actual work I do, I very much class myself as an accountant even though my qualification is via the AAT. To suggest that I am not worthy of the title "Accountant" would seem an insult to the work I do and CPD that I undertake. I am pretty sure that my clients see me as an "Accountant".

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