salary expectation

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Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I wasn't saying that anyone works any less or more harder than anyone else. I was just speaking for myself.

    I apologise if came across like that but i honestly didnt mean it offend anyone!

    Sorry!!! :cry:

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I'm glad the whole age discrimination thing is coming into effect now.

    There are several of us trainees throughout the firm, and I am the youngest, we're at exactly the same level, doing exactly the same work (I have extra duties on top) and they get paid more than me because they're 3-5 years older than me!

    And now christmas is on the way and I have no money :(

    Bah humbug
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    No No wasn't having a go, just having a general rant. Gem just said what I meant, that even though you're doing the same job at the same level, because you're that bit younger you get paid less. It is discrimination really isn't it!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Hi

    Don't think some will like this. I have got Foundationand am studing for Intermediate now and I get ร‚ยฃ13k for 25 hours per week. In Midlands are. Do do a lot of work though!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Hi

    I am currently earning 12.5k and I am doing techinican at the moment. It is mainly because I work in local government, which I find interesting.

    The people who are doing CIPFA, ACCA, CIMA etc are on ranging from 15k to 22k and most 'accountant' earn 30k.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I'd guess sometimes the reason that younger people may get less is not because they are younger, but because they won't have been working as long as people older than them and therefore won't have as much experience.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I think you've partially hit the nail on the head there phunky. What is certain is that there are no hard and fast rules for wages depite various rulings trying to force employers to pay level rates, many of them unfairly...

    To the people who seem to constantly complain about their low wages - and to be blunt, there are a few of you on here - consider this; If you were an employer, would you pay an 18 year old who's been doing a job for two weeks the same salary as a 30 year old who's been doing that very same job for ten years? And if you needed critical advice, would you seek it from the 18 year old or from the experienced person? Experience and ability are paramount in the workplace and are usually the by products of age...

    If you are an 18 year old studying AAT intermediate level don't expect the same pay as a highly experienced thirty, forty or fifty year old who's been doing it for eons. Welcome to reality. While you may have the same job title, you almost certainly won't be doing the same job...

    I'm surprised the government hasn't yet introduced legislation to penalise those companies who pay workers in the north less than they pay those in the south... after all, you could arguably class that as a form of discrimination, couldn't you?

    Robert
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Here come the economics, he he! :-)

    Wages up north are less because it's cheaper to live there...... well, meant to be anyway! I'm in south west which is quite expensive
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation
    phunkyphantom22 wrote:
    Here come the economics, he he! :-)

    Wages up north are less because it's cheaper to live there...... well, meant to be anyway! I'm in south west which is quite expensive

    I live in the south west also I wouldn't say its expensive what I would say is that employers have
    had it easy in the south west for some time when it comes to paying wages,It is only expensive because people have come from the cities and purchased all the housing stock and driven the prices up for the locals. However what I would say is that 16 year olds and upwards expect to much money at the start of there working lives they have to be patient.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Depends how far south west you are talking - I'm in Wiltshire, I guess we're more 'south' than we are 'south west' now.

    Yes some younger people can have that attitude and expect too much too soon, but they soon get a shock when it comes to reality! All you can say to people in this situation is keep up the hard work, get your experience and you will soon reap the rewards!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation
    phunkyphantom22 wrote:
    Depends how far south west you are talking - I'm in Wiltshire, I guess we're more 'south' than we are 'south west' now.

    Yes some younger people can have that attitude and expect too much too soon, but they soon get a shock when it comes to reality! All you can say to people in this situation is keep up the hard work, get your experience and you will soon reap the rewards!
    Im talking Devon now thats south west,I agree if you get the experience then you get the rewards at the end of it all,cant run before you can walk.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Yeah a good 2-3 hour drive from me!

    I'm on the M4 corridor, so expect cost of living and salary to be higher here.

    Exactly - accountancy isn't easy and people shouldn't get in to it just because it pays well when you qualify. It's a long old road to get there and the reason is pays so well is because a lot of blood, sweat and tears are involved!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Hi All,

    Just been reading through your messages and would like to agree it's hard work getting more money out of staying with the same firm for too long.
    I've been with my current employer for 14.5 yrs, (7 Yrs in the Stores and 7.5 Yrs in accounts - after studying the AAT) and I am only earning just under 20K a year, all be it my job is only Sales and Purchase Ledger made bigger by it's title, Accounts Administrator.
    My employer is paying for my Technician course and they are well aware that I will not be staying with them for much longer, as soon as I am qualified I'm off for a better job, we need to remember loyalty counts for nothing in the workplace, look after number one!
    Good luck to all who are looking for that dream job!
    Ian.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    My problem is that I have been with the company 6-12 months longer than some of the other trainees and they're getting paid more just because they're older. And I could be getting about 4k more somewhere else!

    And salaries are actually quite poor down here in the sw compared to nw.

    Gem
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Hi Gem,
    I thought the new age discimination laws work both ways for the old and the young. I'm not fully aware of you employment details, age, expierience, job role, but if you are doing either the same job or similar I would raise the question why these people are getting paid more. The age you are is no longer relevant in the workplace, as far as I know it's down to your job and your ability to do that job.
    The only problem with the new age discrimination law though is the minimum wage bands, there still in place, so now the tables have turned the old can get the same jobs as the young and enthusiastic, but, the young are still being descriminated against when it comes to salaries.
    If you do decide to question your salary and take it up with your employer, I wish you all the best as it's like pulling teeth where I work.
    Ian.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I'm scared!

    I'm going to see what my pay review is in 6 months and if its terrible then i'll take it up with them then.



  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I've got mine next month, but I've been with this company too long and I know what to expect.
    Good luck with yours and keep your chin up!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I disagree with that blobby h, i am doing the same jobs as other people on my course if not more duties, they have similar experience in this field just because they are 25 years older then me doesnt mean they should get paid over double of what i am on.

    I appreciate they have more working experience, but in the same accounting field we have similar experiences, infact don't younger people learn quicker then older people, this maybe a personal opinion but in my mind its true, the "mature" students take longer then us "kids" in the class. (it do not mean to sound rude just giving my personal opinion after all this is a discussion forum)
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Ouch!

    Well, as a 'more mature' member of this forum I would like to say that (in my experience), maturity brings a range of skills to a job.

    Calmness, the ability to articulate and communicate well are all skills that can't be learnt. Are you sure that everyone you are comparing with has the same level of expertise as you? Similar skills - but perhaps not the same.

    One should never generalise, of course. But there's more to a job than just picking it up. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

    We may take longer to absorb new things - but that's because our brains are already brimming with stuff that can't be downloaded on to an MP3 player. But I must admit it is handy to have someone in the office capable of taking the back off a mobile for me - my arthritic fingers just aren't nimble enough (LOL).

    Yes, this is a discussion forum. Let's talk about pensions.

    :wink:

    Helen


  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Have to say that I think Blobbyh is spot on. It doesn't matter how fast you learn stuff in class, there is no substitite for experience and therefore older staff quite rightly earn more money.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Disregarding the very poorly advised younger people learn faster than older people comment, I'll try to explain it another way.

    You cannot know for certain that you are on the same level as older people on your course since this is largely just an assumption by yourself, based on possibly a few brief conversations you've had with them, with an agenda in your mind. You may have similar current skills but they'll undoubtedly have many others that you yourself don't yet have.

    Say you start a new job on ร‚ยฃ10,000 per annum at the age of 20 and you get a flat annual pay rise of ร‚ยฃ500 per year. When you reach 30 you'll be on ร‚ยฃ15,000 and have ten years of experience. Then suppose another 20 year old comes along to work alongside you. Now although you're doing the same job, should they be paid the same ร‚ยฃ15,000 that you are on? Does your ten years experience count for nothing? Of course it doesn't, so allowing for some effect of inflation, they'd probably start on ร‚ยฃ11-12k per year. The difference is the experience, technical expertise and loyalty to the company that can only come with being in the same job for more than a short while.

    Young people can gripe all they want but it won't change the way employers will nearly always pay extra for experience when it is required.

    Bear in mind that MP3 players, PC's and iPods are mainly technology products and inventions of the thirties and over generations not the teens to twenties. Their own day will come - but only when they have their own experiences and ideas to draw upon - the whole point I am trying to make...

    Robert
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation
    blobbyh wrote:
    Bear in mind that MP3 players, PC's and iPods are mainly technology products and inventions of the thirties and over generations not the teens to twenties!

    Quite so!

    Where's your picture gone?

    Helen
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I think you mis read my comment! I appreciate people with more experience should earn more money, but what i am trying to say is the the same field; accounting i have similar experience as in job wise, i have the same responsibilities as many others in my class. I personally think that regardless of age, if you are at the same level with the same experience e.g. no experience in accounting then you shouldnt be on half of what other people are on it is generally unfair, but again thats just my personal opinion.

    If you have 10 years experience in accounting and are studying intermediate then i can appreciate why you are on more money then others, but if you have just started your job at foundation like me ( 16 months experience) in a new job, first in accounting and studying intermediate regardless of age i do think the salary gap shouldnt be over double, even if most of you "mature students" are twice my age!!!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Hi, I find this thread quite interesting - as it's all about money money money!! (LOL)
    I am 22 years old and started at a law firm as an accounts assistant, processing invoices and credits solely. I started here on ร‚ยฃ10.5k in December 03 in Manchester when I was 18 years old.
    Shortly after I started, my counterpart left and I was the only one who could do that job, and, coming to financial year end, I was quite an important member of the team as bills needed processing!
    Because of me being the only one who could do it, I was given a 'Pre-Rise' Bonus, probably to sweeten me up so I stayed with the firm at least until the busy period was over.
    I decided to stay at the firm (I originally wanted an IT role as I qualified Double A-levels Advanced Computing) but after a while I began to like the accounts.
    There was a LOT of work and extra hours put into the work and believe me, IT DOESN'T GO UNNOTICED no matter how much you think it does. Someone will always know how hard you are working, you just have to bide your time and have a bit of consistency in your work and the rewards will come in time.
    I recently left (December this year (22nd)) for reasons I wouldn't rather go into - on another thread somewhere aout someone getting promotion before me but I won't bore you - I have now gone to another Law Firm not too far away, I have experience ONLY in processing invoices, Credits, Client Money Trfrs, Off to Off, Cli to Off, Off to Nom (all the trfrs), time trfrs, VAT, overseas VAT, Client Engagements, Software Development (Billing Software Design) and a few other duties, but nothing about what I am learning on AAT Foundation - it's all new to me.
    I applied for another position and got it, I went to the interview and basically walked them through a working day of mine, software used, results yeilded.
    Two hours after that, I was offered the job, which was advertised for ร‚ยฃ19.5k, for ร‚ยฃ20.5k - which is a ร‚ยฃ4k rise from my current/previous role.
    I was toldthe following statement in an emergency meeting held by my manager and Financial Director ...
    "I don't believe you have been offered that much money to move, the work you do doesn't deserve that kind of salary"....
    So, proof....
    The company you work hard for for several years will only value you so much and when the chance comes round to move and give your experience to someone else, they are more likely to offer you more for that experience.

    WOW, sorry for rambling.. and if some doesn't make sense, my missus is trying to stop my son from whinging!!! poor bugger's got wind!

    Over and Out
    Jamie
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    When you employ someone older, you employ someone who has a wealth of experience - some of which may be relevant to the role, some of which may not.

    When i started working here 14 months ago, I had no accounts knowledge at all, aside from the very basics learned from the first few weeks of my AAT foundation course. However, because I was 25 and had a lot of other skills which could be utilised by the company which I'd acquired elsewhere before coming here they offered me a slightly more comprehensive role - but started me at the bottom of the ladder to learn everything from the ground up.

    I get paid about ร‚ยฃ3000 per year more than some other staff, one of whom is 5 years my junior, but has been here 6 months longer than I have. There are also 3 other staff on significantly less money than me, all of whom joined 6 months after I did. Although our workloads were similar at first, I now do much more complex work than they do so the pay gap is justified.

    However, some employers just dont pay as much as others... the bigger the business the more they can afford to pay you. Industry is where the money is (80k plus benefits anyone?), unless you have the guts to set up your own practice.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Interestingly, I've found myself in the opposite position to Wisewood. I came into accounts in a Trainee Accounts Assistant position at 22, with no experience of accounts at all. I put up with the low salary and banal work because the agreement was that I would be given both more advanced work and better pay gradually over the course of the three years day-release I would spend studying the AAT.
    This has not happened, and I began to look elsewhere. I have found that my relative age and lack of experience leave me at a disadvantage compared to the newcomer who can be shaped as the employer desires. Further, employers cannot understand why "someone of your intelligence is working in such a junior role".
    I thought this was the kind of profession where we had to start at the bottom and work our way up. But I find because of my age (relative to experience) and (alleged) intelligence*, I am unable to progress.

    *EDIT: I should add that I do not consider myself more than averagely intelligent- certainly my mediocre A-Levels suggest this- and surely the ability to learn and recall quickly shouldn't be a hindrance?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    I think job-hunting involves more luck than anything else, it's something i've always believed.

    I was asked at college by my tutor (who it turns out knows my bosses wife) if anyone was after a job in accounts as this place was looking for someone. I put my hand up and had an interview a week later, but during that week applied for, and was interviewed for another position i'd seen advertised on ร‚ยฃ12,000 per year.

    After my interview here, but before i heard back, i got a second interview at the other place, and was told I was one of only 2 people to be called back for a follow-up. When i got to the car after that interview i'd had a missed call from this place who offered me the job when i called them back.

    I came in for another meeting with them, to discuss the terms of engagement, salary, and exactly what my job role would be - because as said previously, they saw qualities in me more useful to them than sticking me in as a junior vat processor or something like that.

    When discussing pay, i said i'd just been told I was in the final 2 for a position elsewhere, and that the pay was ร‚ยฃ12,000 there, and they agreed to match it with a pay & job title review after 6 months. Wish i'd exhagerated now and said the pay at the other job was more - but no matter really.

    The best thing to do if you're not happy is speak to your employer and be honest and open with them, tell them you think you should be earning more money and see what they say - prepare yourself though, make sure you know what jobs you do, and what you dont - what you're good at and what you're not. When you negotiate a pay review you need as much ammo as you can have to make sure you get what you want.

    My next pay review is december 2007, and when that comes around i'll be expecting quite a big pay increase (again). My job is much more involved than it was originally, added to which i have introduced a bespoke intranet system that i conceived, developed and implemented myself - saving hours in admin time and allowing us to offer greater levels of customer service. (see, thats the sort of stuff you need to say to get a pay rise haha).
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation
    Baggybooks wrote:
    Calmness, the ability to articulate and communicate well are all skills that can't be learnt.

    I disagree
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation

    Also, as a side note;

    If you interview someone who is older, and they seem right for the job, it may be necessary to offer them more money, because they're older, they're more likely to have kids, mortgage etc etc to pay and thus need to earn more money. Its better to pay someone more and get them if they're right for the job.

    Also, employing a young woman means the probability down the road of maternity pay, and finding cover for up to 12 months. Employ a more mature woman and that possibility is reduced, or removed, saving hassle and money.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:salary expectation
    Paul22 wrote:
    Baggybooks wrote:
    Calmness, the ability to articulate and communicate well are all skills that can't be learnt.

    I disagree

    Actually, I don't agree with it either! What I was trying to get across was that these things are enhanced with experience.

    Yes, of course they may be learnt - but not overnight.

    :wink:

    Helen

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