ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

System
System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
edited June 18 in AAT student discussion
The question on BEP and MOS was unfair as we hadn't been taught how do deal with a neggative figure. This wasn't in our text books! I was thrown by the question and hardly answered any of it. If I was ready to answer a question like this,WITHOUT BEING TAUGHT I would be studying at a higher level.
The remainder of the paper was fair and was what we had been taught.
I am gutted now because I worked very hard and could fail just because of this question. It must be worth about 10 or 12 marks so if the sections are 50 marks each (only guessing), I have probably failed!

It would be a good idea for all students who had difficulty with this and feel that they would fail on this question alone to post their individual replies to:
examfeedback@aat.org.uk

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 UNFAIR EXAM!

    I will admit that this question threw me a bit at first. I thought I must have done it wrong to start with - how else would I get a negative Margin of Safety? - but then I read the next question again and thought it too much of a coincidence that I would get such nicely rounded figures and then be asked to comment of the relevance of all three levels of production.

    It didn't take much working out that they wouldn't be asking specifically for each production level individually if there wasn't something like - at least - a zero MOS.

    I hardly think that this question was unfair as part of accounting is to use a bit of common sense and look at the bigger picture.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 UNFAIR EXAM!

    Agreed. I've just spend some time explaining on another thread the method used to calculate the MOS percentages for the numbers involved on the exam.

    If you use the right formula, you will always end up with the right answer.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 UNFAIR EXAM!

    Ok, point taken, I shall be more cautious next time.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    When i spotted this question i started questioning myself! It threw me offguard for a while i think the 3 MOS percents were like -21% 0% and 25%?

    Does that sounds right? then i just added that sales need to increase by x percent to break even, for the middle i stated costs were covered but no profit was being made and the last that sales can decrease by 25% before the break even point and point where you begin to make a loss.

    Got to agree with others, although we have not learnt doing -percents at the end of the day its stillt he same principle.

    Internal Rate of Return was the bad bit for me. The BPP material i had did not explain this in detail, in fact states that you do not need to know the full detail yet in the exam we were asked for a full detailed explanation.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    There was no question for an explaination of the IRR on my exam paper. There was one on one of the previous exam papers though, if i recall correctly.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Thanks for that. I have spoken to my tutor today. I am going revise this whole chapter again (BEP/MOS) as I obviously don't understand it fully. At least I have learnt something new.

    I agree with what you have said about the IRR. I just wrote about my understanding of it. I revised it fully as it seems to come up in most of the exams and the Examiner has noted on each his reports that students fail to understand its meaning.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I will learn from my mistakes. Should my BPP textbook state "this will not be asked in the exam" or "you will not be asked to explain this in detail" i shall then investigate it fully online! As funny as this sounds it would be nice to have up to date revsion material based on what AAT will be assesing!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    According to the guidance notes on the AAT exam support section of the website, this is what it says about the IRR in the exam.
    Tasks will not be set which require the computation of a projectÒ€ℒs internal rate of return (IRR) but students should be aware of its meaning.

    The only time the IRR came up on the exam was in teh report at the end where it told you the IRR was 12% and the cost was 15% ... I didnt even bother explaining what the IRR actually is, its a report to a senior member of staff, the question didnt ask for an explaination, so assume senior staff know what it is already. I just answered each of the points it asked for.

    Payback is within acceptable perameters, but the other points all show that the project would be a bad idea. I dont remember all the other points i made to show this though. I've slept a few times since then
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I'm also a BPP student. I think they just skim over what they feel is going to come up in the exam. I have read on this site that Osborne books are good. Does anyone else have suggestions on this?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    The Osbourne books have been good to me so far, but having said that, I don't do much self-study and rely on what i learn at work, and in class for the most-part.

    The Osbourne book does give an explaination of what the IRR is, a few paragraphs, but it also states that you will not be required to calculate an IRR during the exam, only to have a knowledge of what it is, and what it is used for.

    This reminds me, i must get round to contacting BPP and telling them to stop spamming me through the post with their materials. Constantly getting mail from them, and i've never even shown an interest in using them as my training provider - as soon as i decided to start the AAT i signed up with my local college. Grrr
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment
    wisewood wrote:
    I didnt even bother explaining what the IRR actually is, its a report to a senior member of staff, the question didnt ask for an explaination, so assume senior staff know what it is already.

    My tutor at FTC told me to think of an idiot(usually management) that you have to deal with on a regular basis and how you have to explain things to them at great length in words of one syllable. Then write your answer to the question.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    A fair enough point, and good advice.

    I still don't think the question asked for an explaination, or a calculation of the IRR though.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Yes, that's correct, we weren't asked for an explanation of IRR.

    My class was also told to write what you know as this will still earn you credit. You won't get full marks but even if it's just one mark it all helps. It's better to write what you know rather than leaving the question blank as this will cost you even more marks.

    Anyway, back to the point of this topic, I still think this question was fair.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I think that ECR exam was a bit UNFAIR for people who are no very good in theory questions and explanations.I understand that it is a part of accountant's job to write memos, reports and stuff, but the theory questions were unproportional in 2 sections.
    Section 1 didn't contain any questions which require explanations and section 2 contains 3 explanations within only 5 questions!
    I'm not very good in writing reports and memos and puting my thoughts on paper as english isn't my first languaige but i'm good at calculations and working out bit. And now seeing questions in past papers I realise that I might get 100% in 1st section and very poor result on section 2 because of these 3 explanations. Which means I won't pass as you need to pass both sections.
    Before answers were published on website I couldn't remember and was hoping that those theory questions were devided between sections equally and now I see that they are not at all! and I'm worried about not passing now even though I consider myself as quite competent in this unit.

    Is there anyone else who thinks the same as me??
    Or is it just me? :cry:
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Just taken another look at the exam as i was a little confused as to what you were talking about. I have only spotted 4 occasions you had to explain something, 3 of these were just short answers on what the differences would be at certain output levels. The only real written answer was the Memo at the end and which you always get.

    Must of the questions just required you to work out amounts and do some sums. Because of this i actually believe it was quite fair. I am pretty poor at writing and explaining myself and i was very happy with what came up in the ECR exam apart from one part.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Now the exam questions were out i thought id investigate the IRR question. I must reverse what i said earlier, it did not ask for a full explanation just a yes or a no, of course it should have been a yes! I had gotten the impression in the exam that a full explanation was required but it was not as most of you said.

    Still would have been nice to know what it is!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I think the written part was fair too. You have to be able to communicate clearly in the workplace and this is what the examiner is looking for.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Do any of you know how this will be marked? Section 2 consists of five parts. If you score very low (not competent) in 2.2 but overall score around 75% is it possible to pass?

    I know you have to be competent in both sections but I'm not worried about Section 1.

    How many marks do you think 2.2 is?

  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Its a good question but so far i have not heard of anyone who knows exactly how it is marked. I heard a rumour each part you get marked on between 1-50 marks, 50 being top for the section. I am though pretty sure if your overall mark is 75% then you would pass, havent heard the concept in exams of being competant in both sections, if you have a mark of 75% then even if yu get all of section 1 correct = 50% you have still gotten enough in section 2 to be competent?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Just to add, i looked at the section and i have noted a lot of people getting confused hear. It caught me offguard to start with but just so you know the output of 1000 units would not cover the fixed costs in fact led to a -20 MOS, confused me, i had to check it over and over thinking why have they done this!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    As I understand it, it is entirely possible to pass one section of the exam but not the other. I have seen this at Intermediate level- one of my college mates passed the first part of FRA but not the second. He later went on to pass the whole thing in June. I believe you have to do both sections in the same sitting though (though not necessarily all exams)
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment
    Karlb wrote:
    Just taken another look at the exam as i was a little confused as to what you were talking about. Most of the questions just required you to work out amounts and do some sums. .
    I was talking and I worry about questions 2.1b where you need to give 3 factors, 2.2c which was a bit confusing(but now I think I done it right) and of course last memo(still don't know whats the answer for IRR).
    Possibly you are right and it's just me looking for excuses for my bad answers(but still there was zero explanations an 1st part and 3 in 2nd :roll: )
    I know you have to be competent in both sections but I'm not worried about Section 1.

    How many marks do you think 2.2 is?
    I would like to know that too as me too confident about part 1 and not sure about 2.
    Part 2 has few questions which split on a,b,c etc so they might treat each part as different question and give separate marks for them. For example for 2.2 (its not a fact but I think so) if you calculated MOS wrong in part b but properly explained the answers you come up with in part c, you would still get some marks for part c.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Fair paper

    I will add some comments as it was not 10/10 from my point of view.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Very true Anastasia. The question with 3 factors caught me right offguard, i checked book and still see no explanations. I guess they were just asking for what we know i could only come up with two things that looked right, firstly increase in variable costs and secondly fixed costs per unit would decrease as production increases. I spoke about demand as my 3rd.

    If you calculated the MOS incorrect but explained it in further questions right you will still get the marks for the second part.

    IRR was a dodgy question, over the course of its life on the IRR scale the cost would revert to 0 so the project should have been accepted. I think it was something like 12% + 13% then on a striaght line basis over the course of its life (4 years?) the balance would return to 0.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    Karlb
    Ref task 2.5 ECR paper Dec 06

    I think you are wrong in saying that using the IRR appraisal method the project should have been accepted. I think I am right in saying that only projects with a IRR greater than the cost of capital should be excepted, therefore as the company cost of capital was 15% and the IRR was only 12% the project should have been rejected. This is my first time on this forum so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Heaven :)
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I was thinking the same as you and my answer on exam was " to reject", but I still don't know what the right answer really is.So I very hope I guessed correctly.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    I hope im wrong because i said reject it in the exam. When i got home i had a quick read up and thought differently. So hope you are right ;) :P
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    HI
    YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I AM ALSO. I HAVE SAME PROBLEM WITH ENGLISH. ENGLISH IS MY SECOND LANGUAGE.
    SECTION 1 IS NO DOUBT. BUT SECTION 2 VERY DIFFICULT TO ME. I CANOT EXPLAIN THE TEROYE QUESTIONS.I DID NOT EXPECT THE TERIOE QUESTIONS IN THE EXAM.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,534 πŸ€– Admin πŸ€–
    Re:ECR Unit 6 FAIR or UNFAIR ? please comment

    No need to shout :P :)

Categories

Privacy Policy