The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

I work with 90 - 95% women.... the only bias is the employment ratio - however, I don't see many guys wanting to be secretaries...

In the previous role at my other firm I still didn't notice any gender bias. Just went on experience and in some cases how far you went with the boss the night before...

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

Sorry Helen, but I do genuinely believe that is a serious statement, yes sent to raise a bit of humour but at the same time said with utmost belief.
Not necessarily by a sexual nature, but even being a joey for the boss, please sir yes sir 3 bags full sir, i'll carry your rubbish sir, another brew sir, paper clip sir - you get the drift.
I don't think there's much gender difference nowadays - yes, there is a difference between the top players (top 100 male earnings and top 100 female earnings) by 12% or something is it? Don't forget though, the women that head the businesses haven't been doing so for as long as the guys and there's bound to be a gap of some proportion due to experience (which we have covered in another thread somewhere).
Where as the top 100 men have managed a business for 20 years each, the women have just been recruited as part of the equality scheme and have such been managing businesses for say 15 years - 5 years less experience.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

One of the most discriminated against people now in our country?

A white, heterosexual able bodied educated male.

And although that may get me into trouble, THAT is based on very bitter experience......

Robert

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

I think I am paid a similar amount to a male in my position but where I find I fall down is that a career break involves losing your way on the career ladder in a way that I hadn't invisaged.

However the flip side is that I have been able to completely change my career to accounting - easy because I have gone from earning nothing to something - much more difficult for a man to do!

Annette

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

There are some male students on here that are changing careers mid-life - what have they encountered?

I have whinged about this elsewhere, but I have found it very difficult to move into accounting. As a 23-year old male with no accounts experience, I had hoped to be able to get into junior positions and work my way up. But no-one will take me because I am "overqualified" or even "too intelligent".

Sorry Helen, but I do genuinely believe that is a serious statement, yes sent to raise a bit of humour but at the same time said with utmost belief.
Not necessarily by a sexual nature, but even being a joey for the boss, please sir yes sir 3 bags full sir, i'll carry your rubbish sir, another brew sir, paper clip sir - you get the drift.

Agreed. I see it all the time- pretty people get better treatment. People who suck up to management get better treatment. If you are an attractive member of your boss' preferred gender, and suck up to him/her, you will be rewarded. Sorry if that sounds bitter and cynical, but it's how I perceive it. Maybe the gap in pay is lessening, but men and women still get treated differently.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

blobbyh wrote:

One of the most discriminated against people now in our country?

A white, heterosexual able bodied educated male.

And although that may get me into trouble, THAT is based on very bitter experience......

Robert

I agree

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

My point is that it's not usually employers who show unfair bias to one sector or another, but rather governments and/or governments agencies pandering to minority groups and force feeding this legislation onto private companies.

I applied for a job three years ago at the Sussex revenue, but didn't even make it past the first selection process because I wasn't disabled. Now where's the equality in that? When I was going through a bad patch a few years ago, I unexpectedly found myself homeless and having to sleep on friends and relatives floors. I received no state support whatsoever despite having paid taxes and NI into the welfare system for over fifteen years.

As someone else pointed out on here, recruiting someone from a certain ethnic background into the police force doesn't really serve or protect the people. It's well intentioned but ill informed policies like this that should be the real focus issues for people in finding employment today.

Regards,

Robert

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

A large part of the problem is also that biologically women are at a disadvantage - we are the brat hatching machines :roll:

Of necessity, if you are pregnant, you have to take some time off, and I think that this impacts on your promotion chances - will she have another baby, will she need to take time off to look after the kids during holidays, illness etc etc - and it is assumed that this is what women will do rather than men.

Claudia

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

Absolutely agree with you there Claudia. What I am finding though, is that some of these men are married to/living with women who are more independent and THEY are finding themselves having to get more involved with the children. I have noticed a couple of the managers have totally changed their attitudes since they have had children.....

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

I'm jumping into this thread quite late but having read people's opinions I have a few of my own to add, sorry if I recover old ground.

1. There is a general notion that as only one contributor so far can report experience of a gender pay gap that the problem doesn't exist. There have been only 10 contributors to this thread thus far most of which are, presumably, in the accounting profession; although we do of course all have experience in other areas.

Taking a very simple mathematical approach, that means 10% of us have experienced it (20% if you include me) so hardly insignificant.

2. As suggested, I believe the gender pay gap exists not in people being paid disparaging amounts for the same job but in that female staff members are less likely to achieve the promotions that male staff members do. I have worked for three different firms in my 10 ten years in practice and only one partner was female.

I have not experienced any gender pay gap between male and female members of staff at the same level, but I certainly believe that many females, particularly in the professions, hit a glass ceiling on their career progression.

This, I believe, is where the gender pay gap resides.

3. A number of contributors have expressed resentment over the use of 'positive discrimination' in the workplace. I am all for it. I believe we should redress the balance. Perhaps as a white heterosexual able bodied educated male I am paying for the sins of my fore-fathers - well so be it!

Whatever discrimination we have to deal with now pales in comparison to the discrimination that women and minority groups have faced in the past. We can't just sweep it under the carpet and say well that was in the past, we're alright now.

To suggest that it does not help to encourage more ethnic minorities into an historically racist institution such as the police force is short-sighted. Racism exists through ignorance of other peoples cultures and beliefs. The longer we segregate ourselves in society, the worse the problem will get.

To sum up, I believe there is a gender pay gap, I believe it exists at the latter end of career progression and that if employers are unable to redress the situation themselves (which most are not) then it needs the government to step in and legislate.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

CJC wrote:

And the notion that "white heterosexual able bodied educated male " are discriminated against is simply risible. Just take a look at the make-up of the boards of FTSE listed companies for starters.

I believe Marc Grainger's original post was directed at AAT students and members. Not sure how many of those are on the boards of FTSE listed companies.

Robert and Paul's comments were based on experience, not what they have read in the FT. I think that is what Marc was after - first-hand experience.

If the make-up of all companies was based on the larger corporate models, we might all be working in a different world.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

I was simply agreeing with a comment Blob made that I saw the 'humourous' side of. I am neither naive or egotistical enough to think that I can express a realistic opinion on such an issue, when my limited experience makes my opinion clearly un-informed.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

If people offer no opinion - or offer it too late, we can only draw conclusions from those that have. Just like not voting in an election, it's easy to complain after the fact, when you finally decide to have your say once the 'results' are known but you don't like what you hear.

I have a wealth of experience in both retail and manufacturing, from working on the first rung of large organisations to being on the top rung of a small one. My comments are purely based on that experience, not some flippant FTSE quotation or what you read in The Guardian.

In all that time, having crossed career paths with hundreds of different people, I have never seen first hand - or even heard of - this mystical gender pay gap. Possibly a gender gap yes, which is where Dean was heading, but that's an entirely different issue and not what this post originally asked. I've also been discriminated against in many different ways such as the Revenue incident and the state help I practically begged for following my divorce but was denied.

Bit pissed that you referred to me as egotistical, Chris.

Robert

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

I havn't experienced racism first-hand in any organisation that I have worked in. I havn't experienced prejudice on the basis of sexual orientation in any organisation I have worked in.

Does that mean those problems do not exist?!

No.

The gender pay gap does exist. It is just more prevalent in industries that perhaps we are not involved in.

Suggesting it only affects 'those rich city folk' is just uninformed.

Re:The gender pay gap - does it really exist?

deanshepherd wrote:

I havn't experienced racism first-hand in any organisation that I have worked in. I havn't experienced prejudice on the basis of sexual orientation in any organisation I have worked in.

Does that mean those problems do not exist?!

I've never seen a UFO either but I'm not stating that they don't exist. However, we all know that hysterical and over-reactive behaviour - not to mention ulterior motives - can exaggerate problems into something more than they should have been.

I don't think anyone is saying these problems don't exist at some levels Dean, just not on the scales we are led to believe and the levels at which successive governments base their anti-discrimination legislation on.

However, I believe we can take into account the comments made on here, nearly all of which have said they've never seen these things while there are none to counter claim. It may be a small sample but a sample it still is and I think it's fair for us to base assumptions on this; none of us are uneducated, unevidenced oafs making random comments.

Robert