Card Fraud

System
System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
edited June 8 in Student general
Hi guys,

Last week I became one of the latest victims of the spiralling card fraud that seems to be one of the latest money making scams by fraudsters.

They had cloned my card and used it last Tuesday in Canada to withdraw cash. The cash withdrawals occurred about 7 times in one day so it was quite clear that more than one copy of my card had been done. They had done cash withdrawals, not purchased goods, so it is clear they have witnessed me entering my PIN number somewhere.

Luckily my bankers have noted that on the Tuesday I myself drew £10 in Manchester so it was clearly a fraud and they will be refunding the money in due course.

I would urge you all to be very very careful where you fill up your car - try to use a supermarket petrol station. Do not let a retailer take your card away from you to take to a hand-held PDQ machine and try to avoid using supermarket cash machines. My bank advised to try (where practical) to use a cash machine situated inside a bank, or, alternatively, use a cash machine on the outside of a bank as invariably these will have CCTV. The reason I cite petrol stations is that where I live we have a large number of privately owned petrol stations. I have found out over the last few days that (one in particular) has been raided a couple of weeks ago for card fraud. This particular petrol station I used quite a lot. Maybe a coincidence, but a very suspicious coincidence.

I was lucky that my bank brought it to my attention as quickly as they did - only because I made a cash withdrawal in the UK at the same time cash was being withdrawn in Canada. The bank also said that customers subject to card fraud have to prove to the bank that it is down to fraud - something which someone else may prove difficult, especially if something happens like this in the UK.

Kind regards
Steve
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Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud


    That is awful.

    I avoid external cash machines and usually use the bank or post office to withdraw cash.

    Including Steve, that makes 7 people I know that have been victims.

    Going slightly off-topic, over the past month I have experienced 3 occasions where a cheque issued has cleared for an incorrect amount. All were different suppliers and different banks.

    All this hi-tech stuff doesn't add up, does it?

    Helen
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    I think ever since they introduced this Chip and Pin to combat fraud it's gone worse.

    Technological advances are one thing, but these fraudsters know how to get behind the system, and no matter what the financial institutions do about it the fraudsters will always be one step ahead of them.

    I have watched programmes on TV about this, read reports in the papers about it heard about it on the local radio, but I never thought it would happen to me.

    I was lucky because I managed to find out about it when I did and transferred the balance over to an account which does not have cards so they were basically goosed if they wanted any more money.

    I just hope that when they bought a copy of my card they paid more for it than they actually got back. Problem is, I will never find out and the people will never get caught.

    Ste
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud


    A couple of years ago on a Friday before a Bank Holiday I received a call from our bank requesting I authorise a draft to a company in Japan.

    I knew nothing about it, and the two other signatories had left the country (!).

    The bank faxed me a copy of the instruction and it did indeed look like a legitimate signature. The company receiving the funds sounded similar to a company we might buy plant from.

    Long story cut short, we had ordered something from a company and someone had stolen our details. Apparently it's common to do it on a Friday because by the following Tuesday, the money has already moved on.

    The form used had to have been obtained from our bank at some point - any branch has them. But it was an impressive piece of fraud.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    It's just getting worse. I mean, the AAT have posted a thing on the members homepage regarding emails from so called HMRC asking for your bank details because you're due a rebate. What next?

    Ten years ago you didn't hear of any of this. Nowadays you have people taking out credit cards in your name (this happened to my boss) you have companies like Baggybooks being asked for transfers abroad and people who at the other end of the world can draw out your money.

    Like I say I was lucky because I nipped it in the bud in time but some people might not be so lucky so I've posted the thread to try and make people be a bit more vigilant and aware because if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    This happened to my brother - he earns an honest wage, has bills to pay, nephews to keep happy and a social life to keep on track. Unfortunately for him, someone managed to take £600 from his account in the space of 10 minutes - 5 either side of midnight.

    Obviously, not earning a massive wage, this screwed up the budget he had of bills and social life and necessities etc.

    The actions of one stupid person, coupled with greed makes others feel like crap - it just rips the last bit of patience we have in the government from us.

    Unfortunately for someone we know, they were the ones who stupidly went behind our backs and did this to my brother - needless to say, Blobby's threat of broken bones weren't just a threat...

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Going on from the above thread, this is what concerns me more. I have a brother who has an 11 month old baby and his wife only works part-time and he doesn't earn a fantastic wage but they earn enough to get by relatively ok. If this happened to them it would cripple them (as it would any young family these days).

    It annoys me that these bast**** can do this to people and get away with it. If I got hold of those who stole money out of my bank account I'd do more than break their bones, I break their bloody knecks! They wouldn't do it again.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    when i lived in england a few years ago i went to the cash machine to get money out ony to be told that my account was overdrawn. i phoned the bank and they said a direct debit had come out for over £600. once i had said that this is not mine as as that time i did not possess a mobile phone, they froze the payment and refunded me straightaway - but that was scary as someone had forged my signature to set up a direct debit on my account.

    i live in germany where they have had chip and pin for years, they are now phasing it out and going back to signatures and you have to show ID when making a card purchase - as we work for the forces we all have ID anyway so it is not a problem.

    i always withdraw cash from inside the bank, and i only use the cash machines where i bank so i know on my statements that it is me withdrawing the money.

    regards

    tracy

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Having read this thoroughly and agreeing with the current state of the world and lack of government and financial responsibility, I admit the thing I found the most shocking was that Steve (peugeot) only withdrew £10 from the bank. I thought he was loaded!!! No wonder he would instantly know it was a fraud if someone drew out a twenty!

    Robert
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud


    I didn't want to mention that either. Can you actually just have £10?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Oh Robert you should have been on the stage!! :lol:

    I only drew £10 out of the machine because I'd forgot to take a tenner out of my stash of millions hid underneath the mattress in the morning!

    I wish!

    Truth is the £10 was to pay to be ripped off in a city centre car park.



    Ste
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    My neigbours got fleeced by someone cloning their card at our local petrol station. The management were chucked out but it still seems to be operating???
    If I want cash now, I go to the supermarket, buy a pint of milk or something and get cash back.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Hmmm - petrol stations again! Only this morning I heard of another case of card fraud from a petrol station and would you believe it - the same one I used to use.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    And here's another one....

    Sometime last year, my bank rang me and, after the usual introductions, asked me if I was looking forward to going to Italy and how was my new computer. My debit card details had been used to buy IT equipment and flight tickets. Fortunately, this bank were running a programme that looked for 'exceptions' in customer activity and as I tend not to use that particular card for internet purchases, it was flagged up within 12 hours. I still had to complete a form etc to show that it wasn't me but I was very impressed that my bank had spotted it before I did. I do check my account regularly but the transactions would have been processed by the time I saw them therefore the bank being proactive saved me a lot of hassle.

    Sharon
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Your bank can get the fraudulent funds back into your account steve (unless they're a rubbish bank). I say that external cash machines should be ditched, and all card signatures etc should be done in UV ink. All building society savings accounts with books have uv signatures in them to prevent fraud. And I must say I think four numbers is easier to remember than a signature.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Hi Gem,

    The stolen money came back today (thankfully). I have read an article today in our local paper which my father had about the petrol station I am citing in this thread. They have been raided because about 10 other customers had money stolen by card cloning when they used their card at this filling station. The police said "investigations are currently ongoing". One woman had over £1,000 pinched! According to the report, money was being drawn out in Jamaica, Pakistan and Australia - mine was in Canada.

    I have contacted the police and they told me to speak to my bank. My bank have said they are going to use the information I have provided to try and prosecute, so hopefully they will shut it down soon.

    I say ditch chip and pin and go back to signatures.

    Kind regards
    Steve
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Aye Aye! I have never trusted this chip and pin - it was brought in to stop fraud, so far it hasn't worked so we may as well just revert to the signature!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud


    What I don't understand is that they sold us the idea of 'Chip and Pin' as being successful in other countries - and yet here we read of a country finding it a disaster and reverting back to good old paper and pen.

    Someone was telling us porkies!

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Exactly Helen. Apparently, it's Germany that's going back a step in time technology wise.

    I suspect chip and pin will be a bit like the millennium dome and fall flat on its face leaving loads of people out of pocket!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    So Chip and Pin was going to prevent fraud - yeah right. I have to know the PIN number for our company credit cards for when I've had to buy stuff in-store e.g. computer equipment etc even though my name isn't on them and nor have I ever been asked to provide ID.

    I, for one, would be far more wary about having to try to forge a signature and then having to sign for something. I wouldn't even attempt to try but it is a question of how much balls you have. While signatures might once have been queried, no-one ever queries the input of a PIN number as long as it's accepted.

    Chip and PIN is far less of a deterrant and more open to fraud than signing in person ever was. Ridiculous.

    Robert
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    The only thing with signing is that I remember several occasions where I used my card and it was given back to me without them even checking the signature.

    I think the idea of signatures plus ID is a great idea, although would this encourage the government to implement their ID card plan?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    When I worked in a bank we needed ID for transactions over a certain amount and we would have to ask security questions (can't ask postcode or dob anymore) and very often we would find people who couldn't answer the questions. Driving licences are quite easy to forge now, therefore I think security questions should be implemented everywhere.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    in some of the smaller shops in germany, chemists etc you can still pay by chip and pin. but the larger supermarkets ask for signature plus id. all germand have to carry id by law to so it has never been an issue. even when we go into holland we have to carry our passports as our id cards have to have a 2nd proof.

    in my opinion - for what it is worth - id cards should be issued free to everyone. it works in germany and holland.

    regards

    tracy
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    I'm not sure that signatures will help particularly - years ago my husband wrote and signed a cheque on my SOLE cheque account and used his SOLE cheque account card to guarantee it - and it wasn't spotted by either the rather large building firm or the bank!!!

    Chip and pin is useless - my kids all know my number...

    Cash and ink quills if you ask me :shock:

    Claudia
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    I have been the victim of card fraud three times now. The first time was when we bought tickets over the phone, the second was when my card was cloned, er shortly after filling up with petrol at a garage which has since been raided and finally by a agng who had fitted a false front to an ATM machine at a local Tesco express. The Bank advised me to avoid ATMs and ask for Cashback when making a purchase. The first time it happened, the bank were very difficult to deal with, sending me off to the cop shop to get a crime number etc. The police were very annoyed at the bank and said that this was probably a ploy to get me to abondon my attempt at getting my money back. Apparantly the police view it as the bank has lost their money, albeit using my details, as the cash was in their possession when taken.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    3 times. That fills me with dread now.

    Once is bad enough! I'm sure the banks should be able to get together and do more to sort this problem out.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud
    claudialowe wrote:
    Cash n Quills
    I'd bank there!

    Maybe the banks don't want to get together because they know they need to invest more in to fraud prevention.

    If we all avoided using the outlets that are targets, that might be a start.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    The bank of england makes all the decisions.

    A Marie, I'm shocked that your bank didn't try to help you more! What happened to customer service? :shock: If bank people wouldnt be so sales-orientated (which me and the other girls weren't!), they might realise they're customers need other things.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Yes, like good looking bank girls to look at and chat up whilst drawing money out of the bank, acting like there's millions in the account when infact the girls can see your balance and can see you are actually in the red :-(
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Interesting thread. I am militant about card fraud and the whole thing totally gets my back up.

    I was really pleased when Chip n Pin was introduced, and I thought it would make a big difference in the card fraud stats. It has, apparently, but the wrong way.

    I don't think signatures are a good thing either, though and never did. It is way too easy to fake a signature and look confident about it, if you are that way inclined.

    'Funny' story: I used to work in a photographic shop, with a bunch of idiots. We had had a LOT of issues with homemade cards, which frankly you could spot a mile off. I was out on my lunch break (I was manager at the time) and when I came back one of my staff told me he had just sold a £1500 camcorder, so I gave him a big pat on the back. He then went on to tell me more about the sale - apparently the sale took THRRE credit cards - as the first two didn't work. SO I said as a joke - "I assume all three had the same name on them?"

    So I checked our copies of the receipts and no - they had three differet names. I could have killed the sales assistant - who had three chances at stopping the criminal from spending some one elses mony on our stock, but he was too wrapped up in the fact that he had just made £1500.

    There are too many idiot sales assistants out there like that, who can't be bothered to even look at the signatures and cards for that to be a good way of eliminating/reducing card fraud.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Card Fraud

    Nothing can replace the vigilance of till/shop staff but maybe they should be paid more and encouraged to do a better job than just receive barely over the minimum wage and little gratitude?

    As I said earlier, signatures alone aren't the sole solution but I have often happily paid for stuff using my bosses company credit cards and correctly input the PIN numbers (with their prior knowledge of course) whereas I would never dare try to forge their signatures on a counter sale!

    Robert

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