How do I get employed if agencies are clearly not helping !?
Gentle Jesus
Well-KnownRegistered Posts: 241
O.K.
It is getting to the point where I feel like people like me and and alot of people on this forums is getting turned down for job positions and recruitment agencies because they have no work experience.
The thing that annoys me the most is that when a person that has no prior knowledge, by this I mean no accounting qualification and work experience in accounting, but has worked in admin or some kind of office environment he/she then applies for an offered position and is accepted for an interview or gets accepted by the recruitment agency ""because"" this person has ""office/admin"" work experience.
A person like me ,and I'm sure there are a lot more out there, that has taken the hours with late night studying, the energy and the effort to complete the full AAT qualification for what ? Only disappointment when we phone up an agency asking if they will sign you up in the hopes of getting employed in a subject that you have worked your ass of to pass.
O.K so we phone up a recruitment agency. This is what we hear, or at least what I did.
Recruitment consultant (well suppose to be) : Hello ........... agency how may I help?
Me: Hello, I'm looking for a vacancy in accounting, would I be able to book a time to come in and sign up ?
Recruitment consultant: yes sure, can you tell me how many years work experience you have ?
Me: I have just finished my accounting qualification and I am looking for my first job in accounting so I'm afraid I don't have any as of yet.
Recruitment consultant: Do you have any experience in admin or any office jobs?
Me: No.
Recruitment consultant: Well I'm so sorry for us to be able to find you job vacancies you would need at least 6 months of work experience in an office environment if you are specificity looking for vacancies in accounting.
Me: O.K. No worries. Bye.
Recruitment consultant: Bye!
My conversation with several agencies have be similar to the one above.
Well a few minutes later office boy next door phones up:
Recruitment consultant: Hello ........... agency how may I help?
Office Boy: Hi, I'm looking for some office vacancies, would I be able to some in and sign up ?
Recruitment consultant: yes sure, we have a few accounting vacancies available, can you tell me how many years of office experience you have ?
Office Boy: yes, I have been in an office position for 2 years (note: just as an example)
Recruitment consultant: O.K. would you be able to make it next Tuesday at 2pm ?
Office Boy: Yes certainly.
Recruitment consultant: That great! We look forward to seeing you on Tuesday. Bye.
Office Boy: Bye.
There is virtually no possible way for me to find employment at this time except sending CV's and application directly to companies and these don't seem to be replying.
I'am not here to slack of any agencies or make any arguments with anybody or offend any one that is employed in admin, etc. I' am here to make a point that recruitment agencies "MAY" not be the best choice for someone that is new to the scene of accounting and "SOME" recruitment agencies are sometimes clue less in what they are doing and follow some idiotic rules that they are given as part of process of signing someone up. I am finding it extremely frustrating and I'am just letting some gas out on here as some of you will be in the same boat as me and will understand what I am talking about.
If I have offended any one in this post I apologise.
Gentle Jesus
It is getting to the point where I feel like people like me and and alot of people on this forums is getting turned down for job positions and recruitment agencies because they have no work experience.
The thing that annoys me the most is that when a person that has no prior knowledge, by this I mean no accounting qualification and work experience in accounting, but has worked in admin or some kind of office environment he/she then applies for an offered position and is accepted for an interview or gets accepted by the recruitment agency ""because"" this person has ""office/admin"" work experience.
A person like me ,and I'm sure there are a lot more out there, that has taken the hours with late night studying, the energy and the effort to complete the full AAT qualification for what ? Only disappointment when we phone up an agency asking if they will sign you up in the hopes of getting employed in a subject that you have worked your ass of to pass.
O.K so we phone up a recruitment agency. This is what we hear, or at least what I did.
Recruitment consultant (well suppose to be) : Hello ........... agency how may I help?
Me: Hello, I'm looking for a vacancy in accounting, would I be able to book a time to come in and sign up ?
Recruitment consultant: yes sure, can you tell me how many years work experience you have ?
Me: I have just finished my accounting qualification and I am looking for my first job in accounting so I'm afraid I don't have any as of yet.
Recruitment consultant: Do you have any experience in admin or any office jobs?
Me: No.
Recruitment consultant: Well I'm so sorry for us to be able to find you job vacancies you would need at least 6 months of work experience in an office environment if you are specificity looking for vacancies in accounting.
Me: O.K. No worries. Bye.
Recruitment consultant: Bye!
My conversation with several agencies have be similar to the one above.
Well a few minutes later office boy next door phones up:
Recruitment consultant: Hello ........... agency how may I help?
Office Boy: Hi, I'm looking for some office vacancies, would I be able to some in and sign up ?
Recruitment consultant: yes sure, we have a few accounting vacancies available, can you tell me how many years of office experience you have ?
Office Boy: yes, I have been in an office position for 2 years (note: just as an example)
Recruitment consultant: O.K. would you be able to make it next Tuesday at 2pm ?
Office Boy: Yes certainly.
Recruitment consultant: That great! We look forward to seeing you on Tuesday. Bye.
Office Boy: Bye.
There is virtually no possible way for me to find employment at this time except sending CV's and application directly to companies and these don't seem to be replying.
I'am not here to slack of any agencies or make any arguments with anybody or offend any one that is employed in admin, etc. I' am here to make a point that recruitment agencies "MAY" not be the best choice for someone that is new to the scene of accounting and "SOME" recruitment agencies are sometimes clue less in what they are doing and follow some idiotic rules that they are given as part of process of signing someone up. I am finding it extremely frustrating and I'am just letting some gas out on here as some of you will be in the same boat as me and will understand what I am talking about.
If I have offended any one in this post I apologise.
Gentle Jesus
0
Comments
We are on the same boat. We need help!
http://forums.aat.org.uk/showthread.php?t=25283&page=2
Bear in mind we are also stuck in the worst recession in decades and times are hard for everyone, both the employed and the unemployed so just stick at it, stay positive and keep on increasing your skills/value.
First of all thanks for the reply I really appreciate it from someone that has worked in recruitment.
I have not had much time to read this post as it is in one clump and my eyes are really tired at this moment (I don't blame you for this but next time use paragraphs, not intending to offend you by that lol. ). I will take my time tomorrow to read through it and get back to you soon. Thanks
Kind Regards
Gentle Jesus
Yeah, that'll learn them. What can a SALESPERSON possibly know about what will or won't sell in their market?
I've had my share of dodgy agency experiences, but I'm not sure what you're getting at by emphasising they're 'just' sales people, as if that makes them inferior. I especially don't see the point in telling them you have more qualifications than them, unless your qualifications would enable you to do their job better than they can. (even then, you probably shouldn't point this out)
Enlighten us: what kind of effort did you put in to succesfully get a new job in a week. That's certainly impressive, and in no way implies that it's down to sheer laziness that some of us don't have great jobs.
Of course I do realise that confidence is a substitute for qualifications, experience and even luck and useful contacts.
Right... I have a bit of time right now to answer all of you post. Again, thanks for posting !
Lets start from the top..
Firstly when you say I have used microsoft word etc you are correct but I have not had a chance to use these software packages in real practice as I have only recently finish studying, I have only just turned 20 by the way and have spend all my years up to now busy with school college etc..
You say studying in front on a computer, ordering online etc is admin work, do you expect me to say ""o yea ! I have purchased online that's my admin work !!"" There is simply no way out of it, they specificity ask for actual "office" work experience (if I haven't already made it clear in my opening post) and if you do not have it you are pretty much done for.
LMAO!! at recruitment consultants are sales people !!! These people are who we rely on the majority of the time to find us employment, for what we eat,drink and wear, for our future and what every else we do, LMAO, if they are really sales people then that has really put me of them. Could you please expand on this and shed a bit more light on this area?
Firstly the jobs I have has are very informal I have worked in a restaurant and a take away. And before you tell me a till is part of admin I will say that when I get asked for office work experience they do not mean "I have done work with computers" they actually mean work experience in an actual office, in my CV !
In the last part of your post you say that you put the effort in to looking for a job. This is pretty impolite as you are just saying we are lazy and we are not doing all the we can to find employment when you clearly don't know us in person. If you took one week, fine, I congratulate you for that, well done. But you are in no position to say we are not putting 100% effort in to looking for employment !
I think that every one who are in the same situation as me are trying their hardest they can to get in to employment in accounting. Some with restless night spent reviewing their CV's some with restless night because they just simply cant find a job and is stressing.
The problem right now is that every other job is in decline but accounting is not so everyone is going for any old position they can find but the biggest problem here is the work experience factor, I'm talking about actual work experience!
I need to rush off right now. I have a bit more to say but I think I will leave it at that !
Kind Regards
Gentle Jesus
I am afraid that you are pretty much screwed until this recession passes over. Employers are squeezing by the balls at the moment with great pleasure, as they know they can get the best staff for the lowest remuneration. It is not a good time graduates or AAT students / qualified without any or little work experience as their contribution is considered to be below the requirements needed to bail entities out of their current struggle.
not only them...but also for AAT fully qualified with 2 years accounting experience...
Employers probably prefer to hire ACCA/CIMA/ICAEW for their bookkeeping positions!!
I have formed good relationships with 3 local consultants. One has sadly moved abroad. I have gone back to these when looking again and even followed them to another company.
I made the move, at 21 from a pharmaceutical based role with little accounts experience (a small amount of voluntary sage based bookkeeping) to an all round role at a practice and then to another practice before onto starting my own practice.
It can be done! Really do go through typical interview based questions and sort out some good answers. Be confident in your abilities and sell yourself. I had many unsuccessful interviews and job offers which I turned down, but the right role came along.
We are in a recession and competition is higher but don't start underselling yourself. I know I keep saying this but would you employ a person who was not confident in their abilities?
Simple things such as being able to work alongside other students, being able to plan your study time effectively, managing your unit 10 project. The list can be endless and be made to look very positive if you can be creative enough.
I also found looking for specific roles advertised by agencies was a lot more successful as I can sell myself in respect of the specific role and the qualities they were looking for. Don't forget job specifications are often detailing the ideal and most employers will respect that candidates may require some training.
Hopefully you will take my advice as constructive and make some headway in your continued search.
Best of luck with your continued search.
Burg
They only look at their interest (charging high % on highly paid candidates) and it's time consuming for the person who is looking for jobs.
I 100% agree with this ! I am happy that some of you people on here understand me and is/have been in a situation like me and know how frustrating it is.
"Thank you for applying for the position. We have carefully considered your application and regret to advise that your application has been unsuccessful on this occasion".
I would appreciate if they will let me know the exact reason! wondering which criteria they are using when selecting the candidates... Sometimes I think they don't even read the CVs carefully!!
I'm totally on your side Gentle Jesus and wish you lots of good luck, keep on eye in websites where employers advertise (Reed, Gumtree, papers, their own website!)
There are lots of volunteer bureaus looking for help for organisations and individuals who can't afford to pay money, but need help.
This brings you into contact with organisations/people who may have other positions that DO pay. Or it may bring about a recommendation for you.
You could also offer to volunteer within the bureau itself, giving you some experience of admin and organisation within the bureau.
I know it doesn't seem the ideal solution, but I am proud that I have 18 years voluntary work on my CV (10 years as a Special/3 years Treasurer playgroup/5 years Treasurer at School PTA); I think it shows something about me that I'm prepared to put myself out to help others, I'm long term reliable and will go the extra mile.
You might be amazed at who you meet and where it could lead you - nothing to lose by trying!
Don't give up on yourself - and the recession is coming to an end now anyway, so your 'new job' is just around the corner I'm sure.
Good luck
Anniem x
PS I'm not a volunteer at anything now as I decided to devote some time to myself to study - like krazysueboo I didn't have the most inspiring childhood and was told by my mother that I was positively 'stupid', however she was in Mensa and was comparing me to my two sisters who were 'gifted' - so against them I may have looked stupid, but actually I'm not so daft as I've always thought. I started studying at the grand old age of 39 and have passed all my exams first time around so far (fingers currently crossed for DFS!)
Despite being AAT qualified and MAAT at that, I've been unemployed for 6 months now but I do not agree with they don't "care". They care if you want them to. Its up to you to contact them, to update your own CV, to write decent covering letters, to write application forms adjusted to the vacancy you apply for. If you get a permanent job through an agency then consider yourself lucky.
I'll expand on this for you GJ as I work for a recruitment agency and I suggest you can now stop laughing your ass off as the "recruitment consultants are sales people" quote is actually fairly accurate unlike most of your (and other) assumptions of how recruitment agencies operate.
From hereon, I'll use 'you' in the general term rather than to any one individual.
Often there may be several agencies competing with the client for just one job and it depends on the negotiating skills of the consultants to persuade the client to use them and not the others. Once secured, they then have to match the correct candidate to the position, often after scanning hundreds of CV's and interviewing dozens of candidates.
Clients often want suitably experienced staff: it is not the fault of the agency if you lack this suitable experience nor is it our responsibility to provide you with this and it's certainly not within our requisite to lie on your behalf just so we can place you.
Ref the comment what do consultants know about accounting, the answer will often be "more than you do". Many of them will be trained to at least AAT level and some maybe as high as chartered status but they've chosen to work alongside the accounting business rather than directly in it. Successful, high level consultants can earn six figure salaries, however they don't have to explain their CV to you, just you to them. As an example, we've just employed a London Deloittes trained ACA tax accountant to work as a tax consultant in our Dubai office who's probably now using our £40k salary as pocket money, having already earned her fortune..
As for the agencies are useless brush stroke, I assume this is simply because you have so far been unsuccessful? Have you tried replying to newspaper adverts and are they also useless because you weren't employed? How about sending CV's ad hoc to companies? Does that make you useless because you heard nothing back? Where does the blaming of others end?
Just like any business or organisation recruitment agencies have their virtues and faults.
My advice to anybody with no practical accounting experience would be to contact recruitment agencies with a view to gaining temporary work. Try to build experience in either a full accountancy role or at least in a role that incorporates some accountancy work.
Also consider the prospect of volunteering. You can usually find basic accountancy work with hours to suit with your local volunteers centre.
The simple truth is without practical experience nobody is going to take you too seriously. It doesn't matter if it is an employer or recruitment agent.
I've found wonderful experiences from the voluntary sector and many organisations have bent over backwards to get me onboard to help them. The experience I now have on my CV means many recruitment agencies and employers are keen to interview me.
Its all a game and you have got to learn the rules and start playing the game to your advantage. Incessant whinging about not getting interviews etc will not help you.
Its a hard competitive world and its never fair. The quicker you accept this the better.
Fantastic post - hear hear!!!
Probably a good idea. Do you have any hints or suggestions on the best way of approaching volunteer organisations? Or indeed finding them. Is it like making a speculatice applicationb to a company?
Speaking of speculative applications to companies. Finding accounting firms is easily achieved with a phone book and/or www.yell.com (you just look under Accountants) but identifying general commercial/industrial organisations who might have suitable accounting departments is more difficult. Unless I go back to the Yellow Pages and make speculative applications to all the Abrasive Materials manufacturers and retailers, then all the Access Control service firms etc. (accountants would be the next entry in my Yellow Pages) There must be a way of filtering out the meaningful ones.
This is not the point, when I say "agencies are useless" it's because of personal experience with them.
I have been chased from the last 3 months by 5/6 of them, insisting to register my details because they have lots of jobs suitable for me. I registered and heard nothing. When I asked them why, they said:
"I have used all the information that you passed on to me, I have updated your profile and am actively looking for work for you, unfortunately I have not had any roles at your level come in to our office but I will continue to bare you in mind for any future roles".
Why they didn't leave me alone in the first place if they then ignore me?
There is an advert from agency with skills and experience matching my profile, I applied, wait days and days, finally I received a reply with the typical copy&paste phrase "Thank you for your application for the position. Unfortunately in this instance your application has not been successful" blah blah blah. No reason given.
There is an advert from direct employer, I applied, received an answer the next day, interview after 2 days, employer contact me after 3 days to communicate that I have been unsuccessful.
Of course I don't call him/her useless for not give me job, but at least I went for an interview within 1 week and I know why I have not been successful. Agency just make you wait ages for having a interview with them (if you are lucky) and then an interview with the employer, this could take at least one month...
For the reason explained above don't consider them useful with my job hunting.
Thanks for this great tip Mark!
This may sound silly, but since I moved to the UK, I've considered picking up some voluntary work again, but I had not much clue as to how to start on this.
As Mark suggested in his post I would have a look at the local volunteers centre. Maybe do a search to find the local one. The one here has all jobs online and sorted by skills.
I have read all previous posts and would like to bring a bit of balance to the postings.
I set up my own business some years ago as I too could not get work through agencies. Now I never get work via agencies and I work a 7 day week!
Agencies have their place and as you have found there are too many people chasing too few jobs therefore it is obvious that agencies will try to filter out those whom they know will not be acceptable to their clients – it would be rather a waste of time (yours, theirs and the accounting firms) if the agency put your name forward when they know that the firm has a specific person in mind.
Getting a job is the same whether you are a fresh student or have been in accounting for years…you have to approach the task as a project and you have to do it yourself – don’t rely on agencies to do the work for you. If I might be so bold to say… I don’t think you are approaching this from the right angle. Voluntary work is fine but the problem with that is that you will get used to doing that work and months can easily go by when what you really need is to get paid work.
Suggestion..
1. Make a list of your strengths and weaknesses – are there any ‘gaps’? Do you know ’Sage’ for example? If not – is there any course nearby you could take to get yourself up to speed? Visit your local college. List what employers want to see – they want to see commitment (You’ve proved that by taking the AAT); think about what you have learned from college and any skills you have from activities that you have taken part in. For example, you might have:
• created your own website or blog
• taken part in a Duke of Edinburgh scheme
• been on a committee
All of these examples use skills that employers look for, as well as general ones such as initiative. Think: why should an employer employ you – what have you got – what is your USP?
2. How far afield from your home are you looking? Be prepared to travel. I have worked at places that are more than 2 hours drive away! I have friends who live in Southampton who commute to London.
3. Attend meetings where you know you are most likely to meet fellow accountants – e.g the local Association of Taxation Technicians/ CIOT events (I know you don’t want to specialise yet but the people that attend these events are accountants)… Network!!
4. Get your name on LinkIn and other social networking sites. Place your contact details on Accountingweb (the usual ‘warnings’ of not giving too much away goes with this).
5. Look at the Yellow Pages etc for accounting firms and find out the name of the recruiting/ Head partner. Ring that person up (or write and follow it up with a phone call)and say that you are looking for some experience – ask whether you could attend their offices to see if you can do anything to help them. Do they know of any of their clients for whom you could do their VAT returns under the control of the accounting firm for example. Don’t ask whether they have any job going (they’ll say ‘No’) – ask what you can do to help them
6. Go to your Job Centre - they are not there just to get you Unemployment benefit. Contact BusinessLink – do they know anyone amongst their contacts that need someone to write up their books.
7. Make a list of goals per week– e.g phone 2 accounting firms a day; attend one accounting-group
You are the only person who can get you a job – prove it!! Don’t give up and Good Luck!
Really? I'd love to get some voluntary accountancy work, but thought it was almost impossible to find!