Query Regarding Opening Trial Balance Provided by C.A.
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PAMDILL
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I have been having an 'animated discussion' with a bookkeeping client's C.A. regarding a problem with the opening trial balance.
I am an ICB registered MIP as I cannot get a continuity of practice to get my AAT MIP, I checked with their helpline and they agree with me, however the CA still says he is right and I am wrong so I thought I would check with you regular forum users.
See explanation below:-
On receiving opening trial balance I had no schedules to break down bank balance, creditors, debtors etc. I finally received creditor list after 1 month and that tied in except 2 items which were not listed. Debtor schedule followed a couple of months later and that tied in.
I only received bank schedule a couple of weeks ago after nearly 6 months, I had therefore recreated the bank balance from opening statements, uncleared cheques/bacs and deposits. I was left with nearly £35K which I put into suspense account.
2 of the uncleared payouts were for 2 creditors which had been outstanding at the year end but not included in creditor list on opening trial balance. The uncleared deposit was for takings banked after close of banking hours on the last day of the year.
When I finally received the bank schedule the difference between the bank balance per the opening trial balance and the figure I had arrived at using the statements etc was the amount from the Debtor's schedule which the C.A. had brought into the bank as uncleared deposit - £35K
Now my understanding is that having this figure in both the debtor control account and in the bank balance is double stating - as soon as you enter the figure into the bank (or in the old ledger days - the cashbook) you remove the balance from the debtor control (debit cashbook, credit sales ledger).
However the C.A. insists he is correct and I have to move the figure out of suspense and over to the bank ledger which then throws the bank well out.
Am I correct in my understanding or is there some accounting rule I have forgotten. I have never had this problem before in a long time of bookkeeping.:confused1::confused1:
I am an ICB registered MIP as I cannot get a continuity of practice to get my AAT MIP, I checked with their helpline and they agree with me, however the CA still says he is right and I am wrong so I thought I would check with you regular forum users.
See explanation below:-
On receiving opening trial balance I had no schedules to break down bank balance, creditors, debtors etc. I finally received creditor list after 1 month and that tied in except 2 items which were not listed. Debtor schedule followed a couple of months later and that tied in.
I only received bank schedule a couple of weeks ago after nearly 6 months, I had therefore recreated the bank balance from opening statements, uncleared cheques/bacs and deposits. I was left with nearly £35K which I put into suspense account.
2 of the uncleared payouts were for 2 creditors which had been outstanding at the year end but not included in creditor list on opening trial balance. The uncleared deposit was for takings banked after close of banking hours on the last day of the year.
When I finally received the bank schedule the difference between the bank balance per the opening trial balance and the figure I had arrived at using the statements etc was the amount from the Debtor's schedule which the C.A. had brought into the bank as uncleared deposit - £35K
Now my understanding is that having this figure in both the debtor control account and in the bank balance is double stating - as soon as you enter the figure into the bank (or in the old ledger days - the cashbook) you remove the balance from the debtor control (debit cashbook, credit sales ledger).
However the C.A. insists he is correct and I have to move the figure out of suspense and over to the bank ledger which then throws the bank well out.
Am I correct in my understanding or is there some accounting rule I have forgotten. I have never had this problem before in a long time of bookkeeping.:confused1::confused1:
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Comments
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In theory, when you post his TB, instead of posting his bank figure to the bank, you post it to suspense, which will clear the opening balance you put in there.
If your bank reconciles, then you shouldn't be touching the bank with his figures, but another control account to make it balance.0 -
Monsoon,
Sorry I did not say I had done that bit, opening balances from bank statement, supplier statements etc. then cleared the balances to suspense, entered T.B. figures etc.
It is just that the £35K is stuck in suspense and he insists my opening bank balance should include the £35K for debtors as an uncleared deposit and also in debtor control.0 -
I would invoke bookkeeper's prerogative and leave it in suspense and keep your bank reconciled and let him sort it at year end!
Opening balances are my nemesis but even I know that you don't throw a figure into a reconciled control account to make it unbalanced. I would always leave it 'dangling' somewhere until it can be fixed.
Could the answer be in this bit:
"2 of the uncleared payouts were for 2 creditors which had been outstanding at the year end but not included in creditor list on opening trial balance. The uncleared deposit was for takings banked after close of banking hours on the last day of the year."
i.e. maybe the figure on suspense should actually affect the creditors in the BS?
Sorry, not my strong point.0 -
The 2 uncleared payments for creditors totalled just over £300 and the uncleared transfer for takings was only roughly £1,100.
It is maddening as the C.A. is telling my client that I obviously don't have a clue as to what I am doing, never mind the fact that anytime I ask him for any information his standard answer is ' I don't know why you need that?' i.e. how much of the monthly gross salaries was SMP as he does not send me the P32 and I can't get the cheques issued to pay HMRC to balance with the salary breakdown he emails.
I am close to telling the client what to do with her books - especially after reading your article in the last magazine.0 -
That sounds really frustrating!
I hope someone else can look at this and come up with some other suggestions. Making you look stupid to your client is downright unprofessional.
Does he send the P32 to the client?!0 -
That sounds really frustrating!
I hope someone else can look at this and come up with some other suggestions. Making you look stupid to your client is downright unprofessional.
Does he send the P32 to the client?!
thanks for your help, sorry for the delay. No he does not send the P32 to the client just a note of the toal due.0
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