Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

System
System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
edited June 9 in AAT member discussion
Mandatory Continuing Professional Development for Full Members who are not self-employed is being proposed.

Will such a seismic policy shift be put to the members in the form of a vote or referendum? Or will it be "imposed" without a democractic reference? I work in a Government department, so obviously I have a hugely structured finance training and skills assesment scheme in place and won't have any trouble proving it; others might. This does seem worryingly like a familiar Government "consultation" where the answer has already been decided and the 'questionnaire' doesn't include an allowance for those affected to decide a mandate for change.

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Whilst this may be a controversial topic - I am all in favour of CPD as it is vital that Accountants are uptodate with developments within the profession.

    I am a member of ACCA which have adopted mandatory CPD for all its members from 1 January 2005 and all the other bodies have either adopted mandatory CPD or will be adopting it so it seems to make sense that AAT follow suit.

    I am not sure how AAT will adopt the process. ACCA have stated that if you are a member of another IFAC body then you can fulfil the objectives of that body's CPD - I hope you don't have to do one set of CPD for AAT whilst doing another set for ACCA.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Haven't you received the explanatory leaflet and questionnaire through the post?

    If not, I should get onto the AAT, though there is some stuff on the home page.

    It's not really a question of why CPD is being made mandatory, but whether the consultation with members will lead to a vote or just imposition. I don't think there's anything too controversial in such a huge policy shift being put to members to decide. After all it is our AAT, we pay for it!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    As for it being put to the vote, this is an association made of its members. If the council just 'bring in' compulsory CPD (or any other such major policy) it will make a mockery of subsribing to be a member. If they dont put it to a formal vote, i'm sure there are plenty of members who will 'vote with their feet'. Also, the vote should be an acessible one - some institutions only allow members to vote while attending a meeting (i.e. AGM) which is unfair on those who are unable to attend.

    Going back to the point raised rgarding the posibilty of having to do one set of CPD for AAT and another set for any other body that an AAT member may belong to, the AAT have said in the questionare literature that they will probably recognises CPD undertaken in relation to another IFAC body.

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

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  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    I received my CPD review in the mail and was just amazed by the questionaire.I really hope there will be a vote,as it seems to me that a lot has been overlooked.I have been a member for 12 years and I am apalled that the Association would consider imposing Mandatory CPD on Members,and want to take disciplinary action,and even expelling Members who do not comply.

    They have not considered Members like myself who are presently Students of ACCA,who CANNOT AFFORD to pay for CPD (not to mention having the time as well),pay for AAT Membership,pay for ACCA subscriptions,tuition,books and exam fees,board and lodge and groceries and did I mention on a part time salary?I cannot work full time as a student in the UK.

    They have not considered Members like myself who are from other countries(I am from Trinidad) where the exchange rate for Sterling (Trinidad)is selling at $12 to ร‚ยฃ1 and sterling is higher valued in other overseas countries.I could only have afforded one course a year in Trinidad for CPD as the cost of living is high and salaries are not.

    They have not considered Members who may have taken a career break to raise a family,who may be unemployed etc.Yet a reduced AAT Subscription is available for such circumstances.

    I hope the Association has the good sense to let CPD remain recommended for Members like myself.I will have to do CPD with ACCA when I qualify and gain Membership anyway.By then I will be working full time.

    I have always paid my AAT Subscription for the last 16 years,12 of that as a Member.Never mind the exchange rate and the sacrifices to scrape the money,never mind I was unemployed in Trinidad for 4 years despite being an AAT Member,never mind an abusive husband(now ex)and the cost of a divorce,never mind when I did get a job in Trinidad,it took me 6 years to save to come to the UK to do my ACCA Finals.

    All along I looked at my AAT Membership certificate and said to myself(in my darkest moments) that I worked hard for it and it was worth it.I may be one of those feet forced to walk if Mandatory CPD is forced on me.Mabye ACCA will admit me to Membership of their CAT program.

    Asha
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    I thought if you were studying for futher accountancy qualifications such as ACCA this counted towards your CPD?

    Like you I cannot afford to keep attending CPD courses both in time and money.

    Regards
    Michelle
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Going back to my post - I have received the questionnaire and thankfully the AAT will accept CPD through the ACCA. I don't think my employer would be too happy paying for two lots!!

    There seems to be a strong feeling about the whole CPD thing. I can understand the reasoning behind such a scheme as the AAT need to ensure members are competent in the advice they give and the work they do. However, I can also agree with the post above in terms of cost. Luckily, my employer meets the cost of my courses but I do know that they can be quite expensive.

    The ACCA demand 40 hours of CPD per year for its members - 21 of these have to be verifiable i.e. by virtue of course notes - the rest of the hours can be just reading professional journals and articles. If mandatory CPD comes in for AAT perhaps for those who cannot meet the cost of attending such courses then surely there have to be other alternatives to completing CPD.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    Going back to counting ACCA and other IFAC/CCAB CPD, you can actually count the study you do towards ACCA, CIMA etc qualification as your AAT CPD.

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    The leaflet sent out seems to indicate that ALL CPD will be verifiable, and the AAT can/will ask to see evidence on request. There is no indication that reading, etc, "informal" CPD can be counted, in fact the tone of the thing and the requirement to record all stages of the CPD cycle suggest it will not without written EVIDENCE of the learning.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Oh well if that's the case then so be it but my employer will only pay for 21 hours of CPD to meet the ACCA's requirements if the AAT want more then I reckon there will be a lot of cancelled memberships - mine being one of them!

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    The AAT currently require mandatory (MIPs, Fellows) CPD to be 'evidenced' and this can include reading/research, so there is no reason why they cant included such activities in the proposed scheme. When they mean evidence, they dont just mean course completion certificates or notes, they mean evidence that you have planned and evaluated your CPD.

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    Thanks Neil for the clarification on counting my ACCA study towards my CPD. I thought this was the case and was getting rather worried as too how much more I had got to shell out on top of costs for ACCA.

    I can understand the reasons behind mandatory CPD and appreciate the need to keep up to date but I do think AAT need to address the issue of cost as many of the courses are not cheap.

    Regards
    Michelle
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    I thought that one of the things they were saying is that you can't just go on a course and count it as cpd. How many courses do you do Steve? How do you fill your CPD requirement? I have managed mine with my ACCA studies and branch meetings but thought I could manage the mandatory stuff without having to pay for lots of courses!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi Annette,

    I have to do 7 courses a year (each 3 hours long) to fulfil the ACCA's 21 verifiable units per year. I then record them on my personal CPD screen via the net on the ACCA website. I also have a file which I keep all course notes. The courses just basically consist of going to a venue and listening to a speaker go through various changes/updates in accountancy. Sometimes they can be incredibly boring (especially the pension ones!)

    The courses I do are generally accounts/audit updates (ie. international standards updates, new FRS's etc etc) tax, VAT and pensions stuff. The ACCA insist that you tailor your CPD to your career i.e. I work in practice so my CPD must cover all practice stuff. It would be pointless of me doing, say, a budgeting course. It's fair enough AAT saying "attending a course cannot just be CPD" but what do they possibly expect? My employer will not allow me to go on any additonal courses or make any other CPD commitments, just because the AAT insist on it because I am constantly out on audits or have other client commitments as well as a life like everybody else

    I have noted that it does say in the draft proposals that they will allow members who are members of other CCAB bodies, to follow that body's CPD scheme. I think therefore, the AAT might have contradicted themselves somewhat.

    I hope they can iron out all the misunderstandings before a final decision is made that suits all the members.

    Hope you are well.

    Steve
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    If it is in effect a change of conditions of membership then it would be sensible to put it to the vote in my opinion.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    I think it will be a vote because it is the members and students (though CPD doesn't affect students) that make up the AAT. You are correct that it is a change in membership conditions and it would seem feasible to have a vote. However, I'm also a member of ACCA and they just brought it in - they didn't even consult us! But then again, ACCA appears to be a law unto themselves.

    Regards
    Steve
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    If the AAT dont have a vote, they may instead only introduce compulsory CPD for members admitted after a certain time. This appears to be the case for fellows admitted after a certain date.

    As for ACCA introducing it, they have to as part of the IFAC regulations.

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Anyway, let's face it regardless of what we think - they're going to bring it in anyway, - it's a good thing in one respect but what's the point in debating it.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?

    Hi

    I had a brief look at the CPD library. What a joke!

    The majority of the 'Hot Topics' are out of date, and are mostly only a one page leaflet anyway!

    True, some of the documents are capable of capable of proving more than 30 seconds of CPD but if you look at the overall content of the section, calling it a library is just lip service.

    How can the AAT justify a CPD review when it isn't capable of providing easily accessible, up to date and relevant materials? Supposidly this is where some of the membership fees go, but it seems the AAT is paying more for the review than it is prepared to pay for its 'library'.

    Incidently, the CPD review form is longer than some of the articles in the 'library'!

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 ๐Ÿค– Admin ๐Ÿค–
    Re:Mandatory CPD - wil lthere be a vote?
    peugeot wrote:
    Anyway, let's face it regardless of what we think - they're going to bring it in anyway, - it's a good thing in one respect but what's the point in debating it.

    That's totally incorrect. They are having a consultation exercise and we all got a questionnaire. Why would they waste glossy coloured printing on a fake consultation? Don't be so negative!

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