Plagiarism

System
System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
edited June 9 in AAT member discussion
Has anyone noticed that some of the forums on here are slowly becoming plagiarism centres?

As members, if the qualification is made a mockery of (which started when it was merged with the NVQ system in my opinion) then it means the work I did long ago is worth less.

That aint fair.
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Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Yes, I agree.

    There seems to be a few posts (especially concerning the MAS project) where students can simply copy eachother's.

    That was unheard of in the day's I completed AAT and I think it amounts to nothing more than cheating which should be a disciplinary matter. If you dare cheat in the ACCA exams (not sure about the other boards) you are hung, drawn and quartered whilst having rotten fruit thrown at you and you get your claim to fame by having your name splattered all over the ACCA journals. there definitely needs to be a shake up of this because like you say, the qualification is worthless if you can simply "copy" another student.

    Regards
    Ste
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Yes I think it stems mainly around the MIS project, and the completion of the portfolio.

    Normally I wouldn't mention it, but i've got alot on and it bugged me lol.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Perhaps it might be worth mentioning to Julian about this because it pisses me off as well.

    It took me months to do my project yet students can log onto somebody's elses site and just simply copy it out.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Must admit, it bugs me too. There seems to be an awful lot of copying going on.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    I too am annoyed. :x

    It took me 1 year to complete my project and I only had guidance from my tutor at college. I am all for people asking for help but copying, that is beyond a joke especially when there are so many students like myself who spend alot of time doing the work unaided.

    I thought AAT were particularly strict and anyone suspected of cheating had to retake modules.

    Regards
    Michelle
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    I notice that since I commented in the thread at the top of the foundation forum (42 posts at mo) it is now dead and no-one is posting on there anymore. Feeling a bit guily spoiling there fun but they obviously have something to feel guilty or worried about!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi

    Ive seen several posts on the lines of "can anyone give me examples of 'such and such' and what this would mean to 'so and so'".

    I cant help thinking that these are on the lines of additional questions to cover gaps in 'the' project or other skills tests and people are using the forums to farm an answer.

    Going off on a tagent, what was the structure of the qualification like when it was exam based, i.e. prior NVQs? Waht were the papers?

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Obtaining membership of the AAT by copying another student/member's portfolio/project is done by virtue of cheating - I have therefore e-mailed Julian to request that AAT stops this practice.

    If they don't I will cancel my membership to AAT on the grounds that you can simply cheat your way to membership. Hopefully they will agree to stop students posting threads to request "copies" of another student's/member's work.

    Kind regards
    Steve
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Does this mean that all the Devolved Assessments have now stopped and membership is gained from portfolio and central Assessments?

    Admittedly we did have breaks during the Devolved Assessments if they ran over a certain amount of time. Also after they had been assessed if we only had one or two questions wrong we were given them back to make corrections, but while we were in the room we sat in proper exam conditions not swapping answers as they appear to be doing now on the Foundation Forum. The tutors also used the devolved assessments to make sure we were ready to sit the central assessments. Someone from my course was stopped from sitting the exams because they could see he wasnt ready.

    A couple of years ago there was this same problem on the forums where someone had offered their MAS project and there were hundreds of posts of people asking for it to be sent. At that time the AAT had put a stop to it and were putting warnings on the Forums. I guess there could be a possiblity if they keep having the same problem they could remove the forums altogether and we'd all end up losing out.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi Sue,

    Yes, I did AAT in 1998-2001 at College. During that time, any devolved assessments and (in particular) the project were internally verified. Like you, our tutors would not allow us to sit a devolved if, in their opinion, they did not feel we were ready for it. With regards to the project it had to be verified by the tutor who would then "refer" it back to the student, together with various comments, if it did not reach the required standard. We have an AAT student at our offices and it astounds me that they are able to sit their devolved assessments IN OUR OFFICE!!!!!! What the hell is going on? They study with the FTC and I think that is absolutely absurd! I worked bloody hard to get the AAT qualification and object to these students nowadays who can simply sit their exams, copy a project and then do their devolved's at their place of work. Fair enough, the FTC say in their letter that it has to be monitored by a Supervisor - but in a Chartered Accountants office who has the bloody time to sit their while an AAT Trainee does a 3 hour devolved? Come on - let's get realistic!

    Nowadays, it just seems you can ask your mate on the forums to send you copies of their project to basically copy. It is senseless! What is the point in having this qualification if you don't have to work for it? It makes a mockery of the AAT. In my email to Julian I have referred to the fact that AAT would discipline anyone who copies another student in an exam situation, so why not discipline those who copy the MAS project/portfolio? Rules should be a uniform policy - not "tailored". ACCA don't stand for it so why should AAT? You get disciplined if you cheat in any of the ACCA exams so why not AAT? Come on AAT - let's have a review of the procedures.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Aye unfortunately it looks like the AAT is going the same way as other British Qualifications.

    This article sums it up:

    http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1717173.html?menu=

    Im at uni and most people swopped accounting to business studies, one guy even went to American studies! They really struggle, because in the past all the answers have been (as the article says) "SPOON FED". They can't cope with learning a difficult subject in their own time.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Frightening! It astounds me that people get away with it! What is going on these days I mean a few year's ago it was common sense that if you studied for a qualification, whatever level, you did it on your own merits.

    Unfortunately, as you say, AAT is becoming an "ebay" for portfolio's and projects and it wouldn't surprise me at all if in a couple of years you could do your exams at home! Very worrying. What also gets me is that those studying abroad have access to the exam papers BEFORE their UK counterparts. There are a couple of posts each sitting from the AAT asking students NOT to discuss the papers until after the sitting. ACCA sit their exams concurrently so that those sitting at 10:00 am in the UK, sit at the same time as those in Australia. Bizarre that the AAT don't do the same thing.

  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi Peugeot

    Looks like I'm a couple of years behind you because I started the AAT in 2000.

    Like you all our Devolved Assessments and our MAS projects were internally verified as well as being marked by our own Tutor.

    I can see how they may be finding it difficult to find somewhere to sit the exams, that's one of the reasons I've delayed starting ACCA, another is I just cant get into the subject of Managing people! But if the exams are being sat unsupervised all they need is access to this Forum.

    What was the point of us putting in hours of studying when it's going to reach the stage anyone could get the qualification.

    It seems as though it's when you follow the rules you end up losing out.

    Just to change the subject slightly I'm also having another problem where I'm following the AAT rules for Members in Practice, whereas others in my local area aren't. So it seems as though anyone can get away with it!




  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Oh well, we will just have to see how it all pans out in the future. It does seem a bit unfair that some people can get away with when others don't either through choice or simply because they don't access the forums.

    Kind regards
    Steve

    p.s. I know how you feel about the Managing People paper - god it was boring!!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    A very simple question
    Why are hard working students so willing to "give" their MAS projects to lazy students?

    With regard to Devolved Assessment I never really understood why it had to be under exam conditions. I'm not saying the NVQ method is better than old style exams, but the NVQ devolved assessments are supposed to give students the opporunity to demonstrate competence in specific areas if they are not in a position to prove competence through their normal working day. eg a sales ledger clerk would not have the opportunity to prove competence in bank reconciliation, but they would be able to show they can allocate cash correctly and chase overdue payments. Therefore they would not need to sit a DA for credit control but they would for bank reconciliaiton. Exam conditions just don't seem necessary in order to carry out work place tasks or fictional wcenarios.
    AAT seems to have adopted the NVQ idea by writing reams of criteria, but has not really entered into the spirit of the proof of competence concept. Or is it just easier for the tutors to make all the students sit a standard exam?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi

    I hope those who are obtaining qualifications through questionable means realise they are cheating themselves. Personally I prefer to obtain my qualification through hard work and determination. Which is what I have done and finally succeeded.

    I agree the managing people paper is boring and this is the second time I have studied it as I did it as part of my degree - it hasn't got any better.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Unfortunately since the nature of AAT is NVQ rather than purely examination based under strict examination conditions the validity of the qualification is going to be under question.

    I to studied AAT at college and the devolved (on the whole) were a joke. By this I mean that it was obviously when a gang of students left the devolved for a supposed break you don’t really have to be Einstein to work out what was going on! How many devolved could/would have been passed under the “normal” strict exam conditions…not many is my guess, and to make matters worst those students studying AAT on a part-time bases had to complete their devolved in two sittings…talk about taking the Michael…

    Why are we so insistent on moving with the times – go back to the traditional exam conditions for all elements devolved as well as centrals – sod the project and devise an exam to replace it

    ….it’ll be less administrative if AAT were to sell lottery tickets for a £1 all those potential students who match the numbers get the qualification….
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    I totally agree with thunderbirdsarego
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Yes, I must agree the idea of having a break in the middle of a devolved does seem a bit odd.


    @*******!!!!!!

    I hate made up subjects and also find it really boring. I thought maybe it was because I am studying at home on my own as I am enjoying 2.1 Info tech which i am doing in the local Uni. However i have come to the conclusion that it is just boring.

    Regards,
    sarah
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Roll on June when I can get 2.1 out the way - I hope none of the other modules are as boring
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Here Here. It feels more like an endurance test doesn`t it. Maybe all the mind numbingly boring modules are at the start to weed out the ones who arn`t serious.

    I am looking forward to the law module as I enjoyed A level Law aand am looking forward to some number modules.

    Sarah
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi Sarah

    I am with you all the way. :D
    I am looking forward to receiving my law and tax modules (I am doing home study). I too studied law as part of my degree, the only thing I found a struggle was to remember dates and names. I could remember case details but the latter well lets just say the brain worked overtime.
    My point being is there a lot to remember, any advice gratefully received.

    Regards
    Michelle
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    How do home study students take their devolved assessments?
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism


    Not sure with regard to AAT - I studied at college, but for ACCA I have to go to an approved centre for to take my exams. I assume it would be the same for AAT.
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi,
    I am not sure but think that AAT devolved assess. may be taken in the work place provided they are supervised.

    Sarah
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Does anyone know what the AAT's process for detecting and preventing plagiarism is?

    Thought not...
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    I think what worries me is the amount of posts asking for clues on what's coming up in the devolveds. AAT seem to have only a few devolveds which do the rounds and people can get clues on what to revise just by asking on the forums.

    As regards the project I once had someone offering to buy my project to submit it as their own - talk about cheek!!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    Hi

    I dont have a problem with devolved assessments in principle, especially as the more 'core' subjects have an exam anyway. But recently (past 12-18 months) the integrity of devlolveds seems to have become lees rigid. There are more discussions on content etc.

    As for the fact that the AAT only have a limited number of devolveds, I find it a bit of a joke. On one hand the AAT say any assessment should be 'classified' (for want of a better word) yet they allow skill simulations to be used over and over. Students are bound to talk about the content regardless of if they plan on giving fellow students a 'helping hand' or not. Also, since devolveds/skills tests are supposed to be 'closed book', why are students allowed to do them in more than one sitting?

    Neil
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism
    bluewednesday wrote:
    As regards the project I once had someone offering to buy my project to submit it as their own - talk about cheek!!

    Not just cheek - fraudulent, not allowed by Association rules, and leaving themselves open to blackmail, potentially.

    You should have reported them at once!
  • System
    System Posts: 100,537 🤖 Admin 🤖
    Re:Plagiarism

    I did!

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