How does NVQ 4 compare to a degree course
mark057
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I've been evaluating my options given i've nearly completed the entire AAT course and have been considering ACCA, CIMA and degree courses.
I'm just interested to know how the AAT NVQ 4 qualification compares to a degree course.
Is there a huge gap between the difficulty level or could the level 4 qualification be considered on a par with year 1 of a degree course.
I know you can get 160 UCAS points for level 3 but nothing is mentioned about level 4.
Mark
I'm just interested to know how the AAT NVQ 4 qualification compares to a degree course.
Is there a huge gap between the difficulty level or could the level 4 qualification be considered on a par with year 1 of a degree course.
I know you can get 160 UCAS points for level 3 but nothing is mentioned about level 4.
Mark
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Mark
I've quoted one line
My own experience as a lecturer would make me say "which degree?"I'm just interested to know how the AAT NVQ 4 qualification compares to a degree course.
Sadly, I think that UK universities are not consistent. I am expecting a lot of adverse publicity to come out in May concerning university degrees.
It won't be long before employers will have a similar approach to their interpretation of GCSE passes. GCSEs at D or E pass, but many employers will not accept them.
I think some universities issue degrees that have integrity, but that there are universities now where a degree award does not mean the graduate can do anything like as much.
My view would be to look at ACCA or CIMA for a professional qualification which is examined centrally and has real currency.Sandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
ACCA is probably the most appealing but the cost to study with Kaplan or BPP is just mind blowing.
It's a real step on from the AAT course costs.0 -
Both AAT graduates and university undergraduates start the CCAB qualifications at the same level but in reality, an undergraduate degree in finance is far more difficult than the AAT qualification. The AAT qualification takes about 3 years part time while an undergraduate degree takes 3 years full time.
If you wish to progress on to a CCAB qualification then there is no need to take an undergraduate degree as you will still be in the same position 3 years later.
I have heard a rumour that you can do the final year of an undergraduate degree after completing the AAT qualification and also come out with a BA / BSc qualification from university. I am unsure as to whether this is true or not?
The only advantage of taking an undergraduate degree after the AAT is to open the door to graduate schemes with large companies. If you are unable to find an employer to fund a CCAB qualification or you are unable to fund it yourself, then an undergraduate degree may be the answer as you are able to get student loans from Student Finance England to cover your tuition fees and some of your living costs. Bear in mind though that you will have to pay these back after the 3 years of university.0 -
Both AAT graduates and university undergraduates start the CCAB qualifications at the same level...
There are degrees that will exempt students from all but the final stage/s of ACCA/CIMA, but then there are others that afford less exemptions than AAT, or afford the same number but against different papers. Very much depends on the individual degree.
Neil0 -
My Business Studies Degree gives me more exemptions for ACCA and CIMA than the AAT NVQ4 even though the degree (I did HRM and IT related modules) has only 1 unit of financial accounting..
Having said that, I think I learned how accounting works far better doing the AAT and also - and I know this from speaking to Accounting Degree holders - I know what the nature of a debit and credit is and I know how to use them properly.
For those out there still thinking about which route to take, think of this:
Leave school at 16 with no A Levels and take 3yrs AAT (2 years full time at a local college then 1 year part time (if the colege doesn't offer Technician full time) and working in the sector getting hands on experience) followed by 2 yrs ACCA
Total time spent to qualify: 5 years finish at 21/22 yrs of age.
OR
Leave school at 18/19 with A Levels, 3/4 years at University accumulating horrendous debt, then another 2 years doing ACCA
Total time spent to qualify: 2yrs Alevels + 3 yrs Uni + 2 yrs ACCA = 7 years qualifying by 23/24
I'll leave you to work out which is best.1 -
I stand corrected. Just checked out the CIMA website and a BSc graduate can gain exemption from a maximum of 3 managerial papers, depending on the discipline taken at undergraduate level.
It still makes no sense though to actually do a BSc after AAT then go and do CIMA as CIMA can be completed in the three years taken at university. :confused1:0 -
I stand corrected. Just checked out the CIMA website and a BSc graduate can gain exemption from a maximum of 3 managerial papers, depending on the discipline taken at undergraduate level.
It still makes no sense though to actually do a BSc after AAT then go and do CIMA as CIMA can be completed in the three years taken at university. :confused1:
But a degree can open up doors that AAT might not, i.e. graduate training routes. Also, graduate training routes dont always require a relevant degree - meaning someone who went to uni who decides after three years that they dont want to go into accounts could use their degree on another path.0 -
Perhaps so, but 6 years seems a bit of a waste for somebody who doesn't want to do accounts anyway. :001_unsure:0
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welshwizard wrote: »
Total time spent to qualify: 2yrs Alevels + 3 yrs Uni + 2 yrs ACCA = 7 years qualifying by 23/24
I'll leave you to work out which is best.
I did 3 a-levels in 9 months?0 -
Erm yes he said 2 years as it is the 6th form standard for full A levels.
There's far more to the grad vs AAT argument than timescales anyway.0 -
Perhaps so, but 6 years seems a bit of a waste for somebody who doesn't want to do accounts anyway. :001_unsure:
But that's sort of my point. Doing A levels followed by a degree gives someone leaving school a certain amount of flexibility. As mentioned a degree in accounts can be more "open ended" than the AAT qual.0 -
Absolutely. Get yourself a good degree in a hard science from a top 10 uni and take your pick of lucrative careers.0
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The AAT at 16 route is especially suited to people like me who knew at a very early point during secondary school that they wanted to be an accountant.
Would you concur?0 -
What type? 'Accountant' is so vague it's virtually meaningless. Really should be some legal protection to the title I feel. But that's another argument.
Anyway, my take on it:
If you want to be self employed or make partner in a small practice AAT is the way to go.
If you have senior aspirations at big four, FTSE 100 or even investment banking (loads of big four ACAs in front office) then get yourself a prestigious degree and get on a big four graduate scheme.
I do acknowledge an AATer can achieve all of the above (bar front office) I'm generalising.0 -
I'll also add this comment into the mix:
Is accountancy an academic subject?
Is accountancy about doing the accounting or theorising about it?
In my view (and that of a very knowledgeable group of colleague - lecturers, chartered accountants others), accountancy is a vocational occupation and, if the mutterings elsewhere on t'internet etc actually come to fruition in time, there will be no more NVQ based AAT qualifications being started by September 2010. One more subject area that requires mastery consigned to the land of Academia once more.
How many Chartered Accountants are there in the UK who qualified AAT before progressing?
Double entry, debits and credits are the keystone of accountancy. This is why they form such a major part of the NVQ2 (and 3) level qualification. If you don't understand what they all are, how can you understand what a balance sheet really means? The AAT qualification gives you that knowledge and understanding and, moreover, the ability to do something with all that information. So many AAT Graduates study for the qualification whilst actually doing the work in the real worl. They understand what is happening, what will happen if you Debit A £10000 and Credit B.
Degrees are good for some types of learners - and I a not criticising them for this - but, and I emphasise this, many more people prefer to learn by doing rather than by looking.
I'll leave you with this thought:
Heard on NHK TV News Channel:
Tachio Hasegawa President of TANAKA ENGINEERING INC. (Japan)
“..seeing is once is better than hearing a 100 times. Doing once is better than seeing a 100 times.”
This echos what an ancient Chiense proverb says:
“I hear – I forget, I see – I remember, I do – I understand”
At the end of the day, the understanding is what it's all about.0 -
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My point was doing them in 9 months makes you an exception.
Most people do A levels from 16-18 so that's why he used it in his example, which for some reason you questioned.0 -
My point was doing them in 9 months makes you an exception.
Most people do A levels from 16-18 so that's why he used it in his example, which for some reason you questioned.
ok sorry i miss-understood (i thought he was saying the A-Level i took wern't as much value) - but the point i was trying to make was i was ready to move on to univercity and was offered a place to do law but because of finance was unable thankfully, as now i am doing the AAT course and hopefully move on to be a Chartered Accountant in a few years time. There are a lot of very smart people out there who will never be able to get the oppertunity to go on to college but through other avenues i.e AAT will be able to0 -
I agree. I wish the big firms agreed and graduate schemes were simply "schemes." But oh well.0
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Just spoke to my local university today. I was enquiring about a BSc (Hons) degree in Accounting with Financial Management. The AAT qualification will only grant exemption from the first of three years. The reason being (as I was told) is that the AAT qualification focuses purely on accounting whereas an undergraduate degree covers both accounting and the business principles around it. Fair enough I suppose.
I am now thinking of going to university for the next two years and doing the BSc (Hons) degree. At the end of it, CIMA grant exemptions from three of the six managerial papers. I might also do CIMA while at university and complete the other three papers that you don’t get exemptions for.
After the two years that should leave me with a degree and the managerial section of CIMA complete leaving only the three strategic level papers and TOPCIMA. That should hopefully be completed within a year.
CIMA and a BSc (Hons) degree doesn’t sound that bad inside of three years. :thumbup:0 -
Just spoke to my local university today. I was enquiring about a BSc (Hons) degree in Accounting with Financial Management. The AAT qualification will only grant exemption from the first of three years. The reason being (as I was told) is that the AAT qualification focuses purely on accounting whereas an undergraduate degree covers both accounting and the business principles around it. Fair enough I suppose.
I am now thinking of going to university for the next two years and doing the BSc (Hons) degree. At the end of it, CIMA grant exemptions from three of the six managerial papers. I might also do CIMA while at university and complete the other three papers that you don’t get exemptions for.
After the two years that should leave me with a degree and the managerial section of CIMA complete leaving only the three strategic level papers and TOPCIMA. That should hopefully be completed within a year.
CIMA and a BSc (Hons) degree doesn’t sound that bad inside of three years. :thumbup:
Apologies if Im covering "already discussed" areas, but Im too lazy today to read through the rest of this thread :001_tt2:
What is your reasoning for sitting AAT - Degree - CIMA. I cannot see how this will benefit you in the your future career in accounts, as opposed to missing out the degree. As a CIMA student, the business principles are covered extensively throughout the syllabus, and it concerns me that you will just be covering more of the same material twice!0 -
Just spoke to my local university today. I was enquiring about a BSc (Hons) degree in Accounting with Financial Management. The AAT qualification will only grant exemption from the first of three years. The reason being (as I was told) is that the AAT qualification focuses purely on accounting whereas an undergraduate degree covers both accounting and the business principles around it. Fair enough I suppose.
I am now thinking of going to university for the next two years and doing the BSc (Hons) degree. At the end of it, CIMA grant exemptions from three of the six managerial papers. I might also do CIMA while at university and complete the other three papers that you don’t get exemptions for.
After the two years that should leave me with a degree and the managerial section of CIMA complete leaving only the three strategic level papers and TOPCIMA. That should hopefully be completed within a year.
CIMA and a BSc (Hons) degree doesn’t sound that bad inside of three years. :thumbup:
You're taking a lot on if you think you can do a degree + CIMA together. As Paul states I don't see the point in doing both. I honestly think gaining further experience whilst studying CIMA would be the better avenue to go down. You need relevant work experience to complete CIMA anyway which I'm unsure you would gain inside a year after a degree.
Of course if you want to get the Uni lifestyle then it's a different story, some things are more important than just study!0 -
I’m at the end of AAT now and am taking the degree to broaden my knowledge and open up new doors such as graduate training schemes. With only needing to take three CIMA exams in two years, it shouldn’t be too difficult doing both.0
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Graduate Training Schemes - these should be called 'schemes for those who graduate under the age of 26 with a 1st class honours degree'. That is the reality if you want to get in with one of the Big Four Accountancy firms. Over 26, AAT, 2.1 with honours, forget it.
Honestly, if you can't tick those boxes at the moment, forget about a graduate scheme and also so many companies have suspended their graduate recruitment becuase of the recession.
Use your time wisely - finish AAT and go straight to CIMA or ACCA.0 -
Graduate training schemes for what? If your looking for an accountancy career, the graduate training scheme you are thinking of will involve sponsorship for CIMA or ACCA. If your not looking to decide yet on what sort of graduate scheme, I dont see the point in doing CIMA. Not wanting to sound rude, but it sounds like you need to do a bit more research into the accountancy progression routes than you maybe have already.
Regards
Paul0 -
Graduate training schemes for what? If your looking for an accountancy career, the graduate training scheme you are thinking of will involve sponsorship for CIMA or ACCA. If your not looking to decide yet on what sort of graduate scheme, I dont see the point in doing CIMA. Not wanting to sound rude, but it sounds like you need to do a bit more research into the accountancy progression routes than you maybe have already.
Regards
Paul
I definitely want to progress through managerial accounting so CIMA is the CCAB I will choose, no question. However, I do wish to broaden my knowledge and I believe that an undergraduate degree will help. A university degree will also open up doors to senior management if I wish to take an MBA for instance at a later stage.0 -
Again you can do an MBA if you have done CIMA. I work for a University and am starting CIMA next year but they also offer MBA after that.
And I agree with the graudate scheme, the scheme is basically being sponsored/mentored/tought to do CIMA/ACCA/ACA etc. along with gaining the work experience at the company.0 -
All I can say is good luck, but I think you may be going a long way round, for no advantage. However you may prove us wrong.
Regards0 -
I'll be honest with you all. I can't afford to fund CIMA. I get student loans for a BSc which will pay for my education.0
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I'll be honest with you all. I can't afford to fund CIMA. I get student loans for a BSc which will pay for my education.
I dont know anybody who can pay for CIMA off their own back, two exams per sitting is 4k a year, without taking into consideration days off needed to attend exams and study courses (I do mine Saturdays, but exams and revision courses are in the week usually, or include at least one week day) They are designed to be paid for with sponsorship. You have to have at least the amount of time it takes to sit all the exams in experience, so it is taken for granted, that you will work for a business that sponsors your study.
Regards0
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