Trying to help yourself before asking

Gem7321
Gem7321 MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,438
I don't know if it's just me, and I don't mean to point the finger at anyone in particular, but it seems that questions are being asked on the student forum before the poster has even tried to find the answer/gain some understanding themselves, whether it be from study books or just searching on the net.

I'm a firm believer that you won't learn anything if someone just tells you the answer, you need to be able to get to the answer in your own way.
«1

Comments

  • Richard
    Richard Registered Posts: 373
    Totally agree with you Gem, I've also noticed people asking for the complete answers to assignments/exams set by tutors because they don't know how to answer the questions being asked.

    I will gladly help people on here if they are struggling with an answer, and have made some attempt to get it right. But I don't agree with giving someone the copy of an answer sheet for them to copy and submit as their own work as this will only create a false impression of how you are doing.

    I work with someone who is studying AAT at college, and is getting help from the tutors with everything she is given to do. As a result, she is achieving good marks in her classwork, however, she is dreading the exam results in a few weeks time as she didn't know how to answer the majority of the questions on the paper.
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488
    I think this is aimed at me and the questions I've been asking about IAP.
    Isn't getting help the whole idea of the forum?
  • jay cutler
    jay cutler Registered Posts: 57 ? ? ?
    Unit 10 Managing Accounting Systems and People needs to have it's own forum. The number of how to get started and do unit 10 threads is increasing! It won't suprise me if another one gets started next week!
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954
    Glynis wrote: »
    I think this is aimed at me and the questions I've been asking about IAP.
    Isn't getting help the whole idea of the forum?

    It's not about any one person. Just the general amount of questions that could be answered with a quick google or if people would try and answer something and then shown to have done something. Instead of asking something like how does double entry book keeping work, where do you start there!?
  • mikes
    mikes Registered Posts: 254
    There have also been a number of cases, where people have spent years doing aat, then as soon as someone says that they are going to email answers or a copy of a report to someone, then all of a sudden, they make their 1st and only post "can you email them to me as well please".

    We like to point people in the right direction for their answers or confirm if they have something right, which they have managed to do and just need reasurance.

    Dont take these points personally, as Gem already mentioned, it is directed at others generally, who want everything handed to them directly, without any effort on their part or contribute anything to others when required.
  • Gem7321
    Gem7321 MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,438
    Richard wrote: »
    I will gladly help people on here if they are struggling with an answer, and have made some attempt to get it right. But I don't agree with giving someone the copy of an answer sheet for them to copy and submit as their own work as this will only create a false impression of how you are doing.

    Exactly, how are you supposed to monitor your own progress if you just ask for the answers?

    Glynis as I stated before this is not aimed at anyone in particular, it's something I've picked up on in all of the student forums, but some are worse than others!
  • steveJ
    steveJ Registered Posts: 694
    I think you get more sense of achievement if you go through it by yourself. Obviously if bits are wrong, learn why there wrong so you gradually get the hang of it. Getting the answers given to you is just delaying failure until exam time ! Also if there are parts you are struggling with I'm sure your tutor can give you a few printouts to do with that part...

    Happy studying :)
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954
    steveJ wrote: »
    I think you get more sense of achievement if you go through it by yourself. Obviously if bits are wrong, learn why there wrong so you gradually get the hang of it. Getting the answers given to you is just delaying failure until exam time ! Also if there are parts you are struggling with I'm sure your tutor can give you a few printouts to do with that part...

    Happy studying :)

    Achievement and ability, as I believe a good understanding of accounts comes from working hard to get to grips with the basics. Helping someone to 'get by' won't really help them in the long run.
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415
    I fully agree with you all on this one and wrote as much in one of my posts to Nicky the other day;

    http://forums.aat.org.uk/showthread.php?t=23363

    The thing is that many of these people have aspirations to go onto ACCA, CIMA etc and I worry that if they're getting bogged down at AAT level - and let's face it, some of the questions being asked have been very basic - then they're gonna get even more swamped at the higher accounting levels.

    Like some others, I very rarely answer the more complex calculation questions because I believe doing so doesn't always help people with their own understanding, it can sometimes take considerable time to do so for not even a simple thank you in return not to mention also because it's been a while since I did them myself, they're not in everyday use and I could risk getting them wrong!
  • Cullen
    Cullen Registered Posts: 592
    I think these forums are a valuable resource for students and I feel everyone should feel free to ask whatever they want and as many times as they want. I choose to offer help as and when I see fit.

    Different students need different strategies to develop their understanding. When I was studying AAT, I found having the answers to hand as I worked through a paper extremely helpful. Others, I know, don't. It's all horses for courses.

    Please don't create a situation on this section of the student forums where students are reluctant to ask for help in fear of a scathing response.
  • Sonny_L
    Sonny_L Registered Posts: 201 ? ? ?
    Cullen wrote: »
    I think these forums are a valuable resource for students and I feel everyone should feel free to ask whatever they want and as many times as they want. I choose to offer help as and when I see fit.

    Different students need different strategies to develop their understanding. When I was studying AAT, I found having the answers to hand as I worked through a paper extremely helpful. Others, I know, don't. It's all horses for courses.

    Please don't create a situation on this section of the student forums where students are reluctant to ask for help in fear of a scathing response.

    Yeah, this.
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970
    Cullen wrote: »
    I think these forums are a valuable resource for students and I feel everyone should feel free to ask whatever they want and as many times as they want. I choose to offer help as and when I see fit.

    Different students need different strategies to develop their understanding. When I was studying AAT, I found having the answers to hand as I worked through a paper extremely helpful. Others, I know, don't. It's all horses for courses.

    Please don't create a situation on this section of the student forums where students are reluctant to ask for help in fear of a scathing response.

    Second

    Personally i like the idea of been able to ask questions and be able to work out how and why the answer came about but i also understand what Gem ment too.

    What is the point of asking for the answer why not ask the theory behind because i know in exam time you cant take your laptop (i wish) in and ask then so you need to learn it for yourself
  • Sonny_L
    Sonny_L Registered Posts: 201 ? ? ?
    People can post what they want (bar porn). They should be able to do so without fear of abuse or parentesqe lectures from self appointed forum police.

    It's a students god given right to ask stupid questions. The incompetence in the MIP section is of far greater concern. But I don't care about that either.

    This forum is fairly quiet considering the size of the AAT. I can see it getting quieter...
  • bambilicious
    bambilicious Registered Posts: 43 ? ? ?
    Actually I do agree with helping people. I myself have found there to be instances where I have got stuck with the wording of a question and I have asked about it. Then when someone pointed me in the direction that was quite easy to get my head around. No amount of googling will help you understand a question becasue it is worded a bit differently.

    Please dont be afraid to ask for help - yes everyones level of understanding is different, and sometimes you need a quick tip or a pointer in the right direction....you will get there eventually! xx :thumbup1:
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970
    I dont think Gem is saying you shouldn't ask at all i think all she is saying (which i have been guilty of myself in the begining) asking questions without trying to read or learn it yourself.

    But like my tutor also said if you can help explain to others how to tackle a question it helps you to learn so its benificial to both parties.
  • Sonny_L
    Sonny_L Registered Posts: 201 ? ? ?
    Lol, choose ya side fencesitter.
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970
    Sonny_L wrote: »
    Lol, choose ya side fencesitter.

    No :001_tt2:
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970
    Sonny_L wrote: »
    Lol, choose ya side fencesitter.

    To be honest tho sonny there are a lot of pro and against arguments, but at the end of the day do what you think is right for yaself and bugger to what anyone else feels. Ask a million questions if need be but dont be disappointed with the reply at the end of the day.
  • Gem7321
    Gem7321 MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,438
    A-Vic wrote: »
    I dont think Gem is saying you shouldn't ask at all i think all she is saying (which i have been guilty of myself in the begining) asking questions without trying to read or learn it yourself.

    Yes, I have no problem helping people who have obviously tried but are not understanding, but it seems lately people are posting questions directly from books, tests etc. without even attempting it and just want the answer and not the understanding.

    I feel that the forum is a secondary resource to your books etc. it shouldn't be the first point of help.
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415
    Looks like it's just me and you on this one Gem. I'm quite pissed off with the implication we've never helped or advised on-one over the last three to four years so I'd best leave this one alone though I'm not surprised my usual sniper very predictably showed up.
  • Sonny_L
    Sonny_L Registered Posts: 201 ? ? ?
    Yes, it's just you and Gem.

    Just don't answer the lazy questions if they're that annoying. Or even click them. Clearly titled aren't they? Not like this forum is so busy they push vital threads onto the later pages. Stuff lingers on the first page for weeks here. Even in the busiest sections.

    Who is your sniper? It can't be me as I could count the number of times we've interacted on one hand. Plus if anyone was being sniped it was the OP. But she wasn't really. Not to mention I like the huge majority of your posts BH.

    People can and probably will continue to use this public, lightly moderated forum for whatever study goals they like.

    There is nothing you can do about it ;)
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970
    Sonny_L wrote: »
    Yes, it's just you and Gem.

    Just don't answer the lazy questions if they're that annoying. Or even click them. Clearly titled aren't they? Not like this forum is so busy they push vital threads onto the later pages. Stuff lingers on the first page for weeks here. Even in the busiest sections.

    Who is your sniper? It can't be me as I could count the number of times we've interacted on one hand. Plus if anyone was being sniped it was the OP. But she wasn't really. Not to mention I like the huge majority of your posts BH.

    People can and probably will continue to use this public, lightly moderated forum for whatever study goals they like.

    There is nothing you can do about it ;)

    Hey sonny is that you on the fence this time :lol:
  • Gem7321
    Gem7321 MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,438
    Sonny_L wrote: »

    People can and probably will continue to use this public, lightly moderated forum for whatever study goals they like.

    And that's fine, it's just a shame that they won't actually learn anything going about it in the way described.

    Anyway I'm going to leave this thread alone now, I've given my advice which is to try and use your own study resources rather than just asking the question.
  • jow774
    jow774 Registered Posts: 465 Dedicated contributor ? ? ?
    I cant help getting annoyed with the "so-called" helpful people taking swipes at people who are posting genuine questions because they are struggling.

    The only silly question is the one you dont ask!

    And yes I have posted many supposedly silly and even duplicate questions (may god strike me down for such behaviour), before some superior being points any fingers, lol, lol.:lol:
  • Ponder
    Ponder Registered Posts: 97 ? ? ?
    Cullen wrote: »
    I think these forums are a valuable resource for students and I feel everyone should feel free to ask whatever they want and as many times as they want. I choose to offer help as and when I see fit.

    Different students need different strategies to develop their understanding. When I was studying AAT, I found having the answers to hand as I worked through a paper extremely helpful. Others, I know, don't. It's all horses for courses.

    Please don't create a situation on this section of the student forums where students are reluctant to ask for help in fear of a scathing response.
    Sonny_L wrote: »
    People can post what they want (bar porn). They should be able to do so without fear of abuse or parentesqe lectures from self appointed forum police.

    It's a students god given right to ask stupid questions. The incompetence in the MIP section is of far greater concern. But I don't care about that either.

    This forum is fairly quiet considering the size of the AAT. I can see it getting quieter...

    Got to agree fully with these two quotes!
    And add myself as a Distance learner you will probably get to hear more ("stupid") questions from me.
    Im personally very grateful for any help and explanations i have and WILL in the future receive!
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415
    As was pointed out very early on in this thread but has now been buried under a tide of mock outrage, there's a marked difference between being helped with a challenging subject you have whole heartedly attempted but genuinely struggled to find resolution on and a simple one that you couldn't even seemingly attempt to get started on. Wasn't using the internet for basic research facilities covered at Foundation/Intermediate in the WWC module?

    As one of those supposed "superior beings" and "so-called helpful people" who has frequently responded to genuine requests in the past, maybe I should think twice from now on. Rather than wasting my time on someone who wants the answer written for them on a goddamn plate so they can copy & paste it, maybe I should leave it to the rest of the other thread posters who responded so eloquently in your defence.

    But I won't give up because I've been here nearly nearly four years and I like doing it. Many of us have given up considerable amounts of our time over that period so I'll continue to post my often frank comments. From my own point of view I'd rather receive a blunt and honest answer than an indecisive, overly polite one. I know there are some who have benefitted from me over the past so I'll just leave the sickly sweet sugar coated posts to some of the irregulars to construct.
  • steveJ
    steveJ Registered Posts: 694
    Yeah, i think its great that there is a place for students to go to when struggling to answer questions. I, and i dont think anyone else would want to scare anyone away from the forums for asking questions. I just think that students should definately have a go at questions for themselves at first until they get to that point where there heads are hurting and they're thinking "How the hell am i going to do this ????."

    Ill be one of 'em asking plenty of questions. But me personally, i prefer to have a good go at the question first and then ask for some assistance if needed.

    Thats it...im done....LoL
  • jow774
    jow774 Registered Posts: 465 Dedicated contributor ? ? ?
    How can you judge if someone has attempted enough questions or read the books enough before posting?
  • Richard
    Richard Registered Posts: 373
    jow774 wrote: »
    How can you judge if someone has attempted enough questions or read the books enough before posting?

    The difference is between someone posting

    'I've failed my latest assignment, can someone please email me their answers'

    and

    'I'm really struggling to answer question 2 on my latest assignment, can someone help?'

    If I saw someone posting the first type of request I would ignore it, however, with the second request for help, I would offer assistance if I thought I could be of some use. I don't believe in just giving someone the answers, I would rather give them the guidance to find the answer for themselves. How can you expect to pass an exam if you give up and ask for the answers without making a reasonable attempt at the question first?
  • jow774
    jow774 Registered Posts: 465 Dedicated contributor ? ? ?
    I agree totally. It is a personal choice on whether to answer the question based upon your opinion of the questions integrity.

    But people should be allowed to post any questions they need to which are relevant to the qualification on a forum dedicated to that purpose.

    I just think you cant tell people they shouldnt ask the question because you think it is obvious, it isnt to them. I also thought it was against forum rules to ask for answers to simulations?

    I get the feeling I may not get many answers to my silly questions after this, lol, lol :lol:
Privacy Policy