Copies of Passports

clegganator
clegganator Registered Posts: 184 Dedicated contributor 🦉
Hi

An issue has come up at the practice I work at where someone heard that we aren't allowed to keep copies of passports because they can be used to create a phony passport. I'm not sure how true this is but can someone advise? Obviously passports are an awesome of finding out if someone is who they say they are etc... Has anyone else heard anything similar to this?

advice?
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Comments

  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Hi

    An issue has come up at the practice I work at where someone heard that we aren't allowed to keep copies of passports because they can be used to create a phony passport. I'm not sure how true this is but can someone advise? Obviously passports are an awesome of finding out if someone is who they say they are etc... Has anyone else heard anything similar to this?

    advice?

    We do copies of passports here and not had a problem as long as the clients books and records are secure
  • acc1077
    acc1077 Registered Posts: 138 Dedicated contributor 🦉
    Is there not an issue with data protection by taking photocopies of passports
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    No as you need it for ID, well not as far as ive heard
  • clegganator
    clegganator Registered Posts: 184 Dedicated contributor 🦉
    acc1077 wrote: »
    Is there not an issue with data protection by taking photocopies of passports

    In theory I wouldn't of thought so as long as it is kept secure, the subject can access it, it is only kept for as long as needed etc etc.

    The client has said that a copy of passport can be used to file a false passport replacement form. She knew someone who objected to a copy of the passport being kept for this reason, went to a unknown union and they agreed with her...
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    In theory I wouldn't of thought so as long as it is kept secure, the subject can access it, it is only kept for as long as needed etc etc.

    The client has said that a copy of passport can be used to file a false passport replacement form. She knew someone who objected to a copy of the passport being kept for this reason, went to a unknown union and they agreed with her...

    You need photo id and what id they dont drive? what else could you use and if they couldnt produce anything else should you even take on the client? Money Laundering states you need full id
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Isn't checking someone's eligibility to work a different issue than keeping a copy of their passport? After all, surely you can still routinely check their passport but not make a copy as part of company policy, then keep records of checks carried out rather than the document itself? And as for security, actually how secure would dozens of passport copies be, if kept in a filing cabinet in a small accounting practice against a determined thief?
  • clegganator
    clegganator Registered Posts: 184 Dedicated contributor 🦉
    ACCA just confirmed to someone else who worked here we can. In the unions face!
  • Cullen
    Cullen Registered Posts: 592 Epic contributor 🐘
    Isn't that how Baroness Scotland landed herself in hot water?

    Personally I make all my staff give DNA samples and allow me to photograph all identifiable birth marks, tatoos and piercings.

    I tell them it's the law.........they don't understand...... no one speaks English.................
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    blobbyh wrote: »
    Isn't checking someone's eligibility to work a different issue than keeping a copy of their passport? After all, surely you can still routinely check their passport but not make a copy as part of company policy, then keep records of checks carried out rather than the document itself? And as for security, actually how secure would dozens of passport copies be, if kept in a filing cabinet in a small accounting practice against a determined thief?

    i was speaking as in client id and proceedure not employment i.e 64-8 LOE ect
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Cullen wrote: »
    Isn't that how Baroness Scotland landed herself in hot water?

    Personally I make all my staff give DNA samples and allow me to photograph all identifiable birth marks, tatoos and piercings.

    I tell them it's the law.........they don't understand...... no one speaks English.................

    never working for you not if you have to take photo of my birthmark lol (please dont ask where) lol
  • Cullen
    Cullen Registered Posts: 592 Epic contributor 🐘
    Hmmm....

    (I really need to find out more about that birthmark)

    Oh go on, tell us!!
  • ROCK
    ROCK Registered Posts: 15 New contributor 🐸
    ID checks

    Passport copy (or photo driving license) is an essential piece of information to obtain from the client and keep as part of the money laurndering checks
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Passport copy (or photo driving license) is an essential piece of information to obtain from the client and keep as part of the money laurndering checks

    yep as i though
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Cullen wrote: »
    Hmmm....

    (I really need to find out more about that birthmark)

    Oh go on, tell us!!

    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    A-Vic wrote: »
    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said

    lol i know how to kill a good thread lmao hahaha
  • mark130273
    mark130273 Registered Posts: 4,234 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    A-Vic wrote: »
    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said

    NOW im intrieged ????
  • Jon_1984
    Jon_1984 Registered Posts: 186 Dedicated contributor 🦉
    Can you not copy it in front of the client, ensure you are happy with it as ID and then obsure part of the ID number (say middle 6 digits) with a black marker in their presence to ensure it is "safe"?
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    mark130273 wrote: »
    NOW im intrieged ????

    Mark you know how you like to finish a thread well i am with NUFF SAID lmao
  • AK002
    AK002 Registered Posts: 2,492 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    I don't think "NUFF SAID" actually...

    But yeah, copying client ID is an big part of client ID and money laundering checks!
  • JodieR
    JodieR Registered Posts: 1,002 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Jon_1984 wrote: »
    Can you not copy it in front of the client, ensure you are happy with it as ID and then obsure part of the ID number (say middle 6 digits) with a black marker in their presence to ensure it is "safe"?

    I thought that the reason we take copies of passports is so that if the client was ever suspected of criminal activity the police could come to us for details of the client's identity. I would think that a full copy of a passport would be more useful to the police than one with parts blanked out, but I stand to be corrected.
  • Portsmouth_AAT
    Portsmouth_AAT Registered Posts: 96 Regular contributor ⭐
    ACCA just confirmed to someone else who worked here we can. In the unions face!

    Most employers take a copy of passport on employing you and do keep it on file as a form of ID it also confirms you are legally aloud to work in the UK.
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    JodieR wrote: »
    I thought that the reason we take copies of passports is so that if the client was ever suspected of criminal activity the police could come to us for details of the client's identity.

    Never heard of that one before. We check ID to confirm the client is who they say they are. Once we have confirmed it there is no reason to keep a copy other than to prove we have carried out the MLR assessment. If the client would rather we did not keep a copy then blanking out the particulars seems a very good idea. No client has raised any objections to me so far.
  • Julia Crouch
    Julia Crouch Registered Posts: 68 Regular contributor ⭐
    Hi

    My understanding regarding new customer due diligence is that it is not necessary to take photocopies of the evidence used as ID, just keeping a note is sufficient so that it may be traced e.g. passport number and date of issue.

    The fact that photocopies are being taken is probably down to the practices own procedures and their setting levels for risk.

    Personally, I do not have a passport and I do not have a photo driving license and so would you turn me down as a client?

    Julia
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Yes!
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Most employers take a copy of passport on employing you and do keep it on file as a form of ID it also confirms you are legally aloud to work in the UK.

    We agree that checking eligibility to work is a legal requirement for an employer however physically keeping a copy of the person's passport once this has been done is arguably in breach of the following parts of the Data Protection Act;

    "... processed for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and not further processed in any way that is incompatible with the original purpose".

    "... kept for no longer than is necessary for the purpose for which it is being used".

    "... adequate, relevant and not excessive".

    "... accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date".

    I'd say keeping copies on file, including those of ex-employees, breaks all four of the above principles not to mention the others if data is not stored securely.
  • Cullen
    Cullen Registered Posts: 592 Epic contributor 🐘
    Well, why was Baroness Scotland censured for not keeping a copy of her housekeepers passport?
  • sarahwilson
    sarahwilson Registered Posts: 567 Epic contributor 🐘
    She said she had checked the lady was eligible to work in this country but she had not kept copies of anything she had checked to prove this.
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    She said she had checked the lady was eligible to work in this country but she had not kept copies of anything she had checked to prove this.

    Pretty easy to say after the fact when you're up against the wall but while keeping copies of documentation may have arguably proved her innocence, the offence was for employing an illegal immigrant not for failing to take copies.

    From Wikipedia:

    "The housekeeper's passport, seized by the UK Borders Agency contained a forged visa, but even the forged visa had expired at the date Baroness Scotland claimed to have inspected it. Baroness Scotland has since suggested that there must have been a second passport, so far undiscovered, and that this was the passport she inspected, but failed to copy".
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    Cullen does raise a very interesting point. Baroness Scotland was very much chastised for not being able to produce a copy of the passport she had apparently checked - no mention of any data protection issues.
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
    I guess there's also a debate that can you spot a fake passport and if not, should you be later punished for it if you were genuinely deceived? But according to Wikipedia (which I know is hardly Gospel), the "errors" made by Baroness Scotland seemed entirely avoidable. Let's face it, she just didn't check, did she? Either that or conspiracy theorists are having a field day over this.
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