fall out with auditors

GlynisGlynis Trusted RegularRegistered Posts: 488
Can someone tell me what the potential implications are for falling out wth the auditors. I have had them in for the last 2 weeks and they have driven me to despair with their never ending questions, comments and awkward attitude and today I finally lost it. The two girls packed up and walked out.
My boss is not back in until monday and am now wondering if I might be in the firing line.
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Comments

  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    lol you set yourself up all the time why even bother is it an attention thing :lol:
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    I am not attention seeking I am having a very stressful time at the minute.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    yep
  • Claire321Claire321 Well-Known Registered Posts: 209
    I expect your boss will know what it's like to have the auditors in for a couple of weeks and how stressful it can be. It's not good that the auditors walked out though. Did they just leave a little before the end of the day?

    I would think, although I'm not an expert that you may get a warning. It depends what the auditors say to your boss and they are willing to/coming back Monday.
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    They constantly say "we need to see this , we need to see that" and "this should be done like this and this needs doing like that". Its a bloody constant nightmare and they think they are talking to a novice. I have been an accounts clerk for 15 years, a credit controller for 5 and am now an aat accountant. The so called "senior" is a girl who says she is ACCA qualified but doesn't look old enough to be! I am trying to do month end, deal with these two and find another job. Sorry for the rant!
  • Steve CollingsSteve Collings Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 997
    You say 'fall out' with the auditors. Was this a disagreement or a 'spat'?

    Glynis, as an auditor myself I can honestly say (hand on heart) that we are not there to scrutinise client's work to be on the lookout for errors - we are there to work with clients and their staff to help make improvements. Unfortunately auditors will ask questions, will need clarification on certain areas of the business and will also ask to see how certain controls operate - that is part of an auditor's role.

    Auditors also have bodies that review their work (their professional institutes) and if clients want 'clean' audit reports, they have to co-operate with the auditors when they are gathering their evidence to support the financial statements. Indeed nowadays it is a criminal offence to deliberately withhold or fail to co-operate with the auditors, and auditors will exercise this where they are aware information is being withheld deliberately or otherwise.

    With respect, Glynis, you cannot just fly off the handle with your auditors as doing so and failing to co-operate with them could result in your company being given a qualified audit opinion, which would be extremely detrimental to your company. Also, please bear in mind Glynis that the auditors are appointed by, and report to, your company's shareholders - so unless you are a shareholder then realistically they couldn't care less how much they upset you - but if you are, then you should be encouraging their curiosity and enquiring minds as they are protecting your investment.

    Regards

    Steve
  • burgburg Experienced Mentor GloucesterModerator, FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 1,440
    Surely the point of an audit is that records need to be sought and improvements need to be made to systems that are or are not in place?!

    They will not necessarily know where to find the information and may be more than happy if you point out the locations of information that they may need. They can then come to you less often (i.e. only when something isn't where expected or something that they don't know where it is)

    As with regards to how old they look, well. Really that is irrelevant. I'm sure she wouldn't be falsely claiming to be an ACCA!

    Sorry but as much as I can feel sorry for the situation you are now in you have to some degree brought it on yourself. The auditors have a job to do on a budget and need access to information in order to complete the audit.

    If they cannot complete due to obstruction then that may affect the report they decide to give.
    Regards,

    Burg
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    @steve
    So it is ok for them to come in, harrass and make demands of me and then expect me to deal with my job, everyday enquiries, month end and my boss's demands. And no I am not a shareholder.
  • Steve CollingsSteve Collings Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 997
    Glynis wrote: »
    @steve
    So it is ok for them to come in, harrass and make demands of me and then expect me to deal with my job, everyday enquiries, month end and my boss's demands.

    Absolutely.

    Glynis, auditing is regulated under the Companies Act and the auditor's report is now signed in the senior statutory auditor's own name so nowadays auditors have to be more careful than ever what they put their name to.

    Refuse to co-operate with the auditors at your peril.

    Regards
    Steve
  • sloshedsloshed Well-Known Registered Posts: 100
    It could be a lot worse - have the big wigs down on Monday "ICAEW"
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    been there done that and that isnt any fun - 6 months prep for 6 hourse inspection
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Steve could you help on any way getting me through this?
  • RinskeRinske Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,453
    Glynis wrote: »
    Steve could you help on any way getting me through this?
    Hi Glynis,

    It's a bad situation and hopefully your boss can resolve it on Monday. I would suggest to be the first to explain it to your boss on Monday, before the auditors can inform him or her.

    Explain the situation, that you lost your patience and feel this gets too stressful for you. Maybe he or she can take over some of the work with the auditors and resolve this, before it gets out of hand.

    How nice Steve is, I don't think he can do much more then give you advice as to try and resolve the situation.

    For now, I think damage control is the best answer, depending on how serious the auditors took it. If you can let your boss know what happened and give him a clear and honest situation and why it happened, he or she would have an easier time explaining it to the auditors, if you colour it in too much as their fault, your boss will have more issues explaining it to them and trying to resolve it.

    Try talking to your manager first thing in the morning on Monday and hope that he or she can resolve this! It might include you apologizing to the auditors for falling out with them, but if that solves the situation, I would say that it is worth it.

    Cheers,
    Rinske
  • Jon_1984Jon_1984 Well-Known Registered Posts: 186
    The other thing that may help is if you have a list of positive suggestions to improve the process next time......

    E.g.
    A)Scheduling the audit to not cross month end
    B) Bringing in a temp/someone from another dept to help with some of the routine work for the duration.
    C) Agreeing with your line manager that his/her requests for information will be added to a todo list and completed after the audit or you work a half day at the weekend to meet these requests?
    D) Going through all the files a month before the audit and ensuring everything is filed correctly and logically - e.g. I can confidently point to the A-Z files and say that all P/L invoices are in there, Alpha by supplier and then by date - they then happily find the paperwork themselves.
    E) I found that turfing one of our managers out of her office and locking the auditors in there for the duration made the whole process a lot less stressful.
  • RASRAS Well-Known Registered Posts: 124
    I think the problem here is that you have had the auditors in for two weeks asking their questions whilst you have also been trying to carry on with your day to day work.

    Perhaps in hindsight you should have sat down with your boss prior to the audit and worked out a more suitable arrangement, perhaps either the auditors visiting at a quieter time or perhaps you getting help for your day to day work. Probably also doesn`t help if the boss is away whilst the audit is being carried out. Seems to me a badly managed audit, probably more the fault of your boss and the auditors.

    I have done audits for small and medium sized businesses for a number of years and do have some sympathy with your situation.

    I don`t think all is lost, hopefully you can sort the problem out with your boss and the auditors. Keep us updated how things work out.
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    I will speak to my boss on monday and put my points across. I was so fed up with their non stop mithering and their constant requests. The girl who was the so called senior and the so called "qualified" accountant just seemed to say "this does not actually reconcile" and "you don't seem to do such and such on a regular basis". I can't stand being spoken down to by someone who is young enough to be my daughter!
  • Steve CollingsSteve Collings Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 997
    Glynis wrote: »
    Steve could you help on any way getting me through this?

    Glynis,

    The only advice that I can give you is to try and keep calm. Audit time is a disruptive time but auditors will, as part of their planning, try to keep disruption as minimal as possible.

    Secondly, regardless of the age or qualification status of the senior, or the fact that she looks yoing enough to be your daughter, she still has a job to do and will be under instructions from her audit manager to perform the necessary procedures and if you are having a go at them all the time, it is going to be pretty miserable for them and stressful for you resulting in a breakdown of the working relationship. Moreover, I fear that (and please do not take this personally) they may not consider you professional in your dealings with them.

    In previous threads, you have also expressed your desire to work in audit. You should use the audit as a means of getting an insight as to the type of work they do and ask THEM questions about their role. I am sure they will pass on advice if you work with them rather than against them.

    Kind regards

    Steve
  • RinskeRinske Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,453
    No offense meant at all, but have you considered that she might just look younger then her actual age... Most people I meet, don't realize I am actually getting 30 next month (oh noes!) and would guess that I am 23 at most...

    It's a positive thing in a lot of cases, but makes it harder to be taken serious in other things...

    I can only suggest to not look at a person's age, as she would probably not say she is qualified, unless she really is qualified. If she is the senior auditor, it means she got the knowledge and knows how to do an audit, or she would not be sent out to the company.

    As for her comments, if she is right and it does not reconcile, then she might have a point, but maybe you can get her to explain to you what you did wrong, so you can learn something from it.
    But if it does reconcile, then maybe you should explain her why it does reconcile and point out what she has missed.

    If you did not do things on a regular basis, while she suggest it, you can only change that for the future periods and if you did do it regularly, you could maybe point her to the right files, so she can find it and see that you have done it.

    However, that is all easy to say now, if I were you, I would not worry too much about Monday, but make a list with all the points you want to put accross to your boss and give examples of what could be done differently to make both your work and that of the auditors easier! Even if that would only be optional for next year, it's good to get it going and it would be nice if next year you don't have to go through this stress again.

    It will also show to your boss that you realize this wasn't a good way of dealing with the situation, but that you did think about it and have thought about improvements, rather than just leaving it and think "good riddance".

    Cheer up, enjoy your weekend and try to relax a bit before going back to work!
  • SandyHoodSandyHood Font Of All Knowledge Registered, Moderator Posts: 2,034
    I agree with Steve and would add that this is a shop window for you.

    If the auditors can recognise that you are clearly a top professional, and have had their time improved through working with you. And you then contact them, to join their firm you will be at a distinct advantage over those applicants who they have never met before.

    Your lady may be particularly useful for you. If she is young she may well be thinking of starting her own family, and when her maternity leave starts there will need to be staff changes to cover her absence.
    Sandy
    [email protected]
    www.sandyhood.com
  • BluewednesdayBluewednesday Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,624
    You can't just disregard someone's experience and qualifications just because they are younger than you!

    I get the feeling from the tone of your posts that you regard and therefore treat auditors as being inconsequential when they have infact got a job to do - for your company and your shareholders.

    You accuse them of mithering you but I bet they try and find everything themselves rather than come to you with your attitude - as I say I can only form my opinion on the tone of your posts.

    It certainly sounds like the auditors have had a rough time, maybe you should put yourself in their shoes - staff having a go at them for trying to do their jobs - surely part of your job is to cooperate with the auditors?
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    Glynis, you are a perfect example of the Peter principle:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

    Everyone's thinking it, I'm happy to write it.
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    blobbyh wrote: »
    Glynis, you are a perfect example of the Peter principle:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

    Everyone's thinking it, I'm happy to write it.

    What does this mean? Are you infering I am incompetent at my job? Ill have you know I am an experienced accountant and do not need people like you coming along hurling insults.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Glynis wrote: »
    What does this mean? Are you infering I am incompetent at my job? Ill have you know I am an experienced accountant and do not need people like you coming along hurling insults.

    Well in that case if you where planning to put that accountancy experience in use in the private sector you need to take a course in human resorces and gain some people skills, and most of all learn toleraince. If you talked and disregarded me in the manner you have yourself said you have to a superior (and yes their qualifactions show they are) i wouldnt allow you to have contact with any members of the public.

    All i can say if this is true glynis say after me "you want fries with your order"
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Right why are you having a go at me. I am the one who has been subjected to a tirade of questions and scrutinisation for the last 2 weeks. I do not need insulting or abusive posts.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Glynis wrote: »
    Right why are you having a go at me. I am the one who has been subjected to a tirade of questions and scrutinisation for the last 2 weeks. I do not need insulting or abusive posts.

    well take it your boss its pretty clear you cant handle the pressure of YOUR job, and its pretty clear you cant buY the way you fly off the hadle at people who were trying to help.

    I wish you all the luck in the world for future employment unfortunatly i think you will need it.
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    I'm sure you were a very good accounts clerk and an interesting credit controller but the fact you have not only endangered the position of your company in your manager's absence, have completely failed to grasp the planning and requirements of an audit despite having passed the module in it (which brings into question the difficulty of this module if someone so inept can acquire it), and how you oh so easily resort to the personal name calling of anyone who annoys you, yes I would say you are now incompetent in your current position.

    IMO, you fully deserve every harsh criticism you receive on here by time and again proving you're incapable of showing even the tiniest glimmer of self awareness and improvement. You bring all your own troubles upon yourself and seriously need to wake up and realise how you come across before you decide where you're going next.

    Good luck for your future career, you're gonna need it in spades.
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    HOW DARE YOU. I don't know why you have a personal greivance about me but you don't know me nor do you have any sort of know how as to what I do. Your pathetic opinions are meaningless and I am horrified that you can be so insultive.
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    Taking into account the many personal comments you've made in the past about your college lecturer, recruitment consultants, people on these forums who've tried to help you and now your auditors - all of who in Glynis world were useless, incompetent, weren't Steve, too young to be doing their jobs, blah blah blah - ooh I think the picture I have of you in my own mind is probably the same one shared by pretty much everyone else who's ever followed your threads. Reading your posts is like comically watching a dog trying to bite it's own tail without the dog realising it's its own tail.

    Feel free to hit the report button again, must only be a matter of time but you'll have to suffer tomorrow first. Can't wait.
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Do you know something blobby I would not give you the satisfaction of reporting your threads because I am old enough and bloody well strong enough to defend myself. Your obnocksious, condesending and downright ignorant threads are not wanted here. Not once have I said Steve were too young. I don't even bloody well know how old he is.
    Your posts are offensive, slanderous and downrigjt pig ignorant.
  • C2XVTC2XVT Feels At Home Registered Posts: 62
    Why the hostility towards Glynis?

    If you dont like what she's posting, there is a X on the top right of your screen that you can press anytime.

    Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you read and reply her posts.
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