F.A.O. Glynis

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sdv
sdv Registered Posts: 585 Epic contributor 🐘
Came across this that might help you with your Auditing Paper

see pages 16 and 19

FAO AAT Students

You may be interested to read pages 24 and 26

Click here

Comments

  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Thank you sdv. I get a copy of that magazine every month. The problem is people write articles about how to pass F8 but never actually write stuff that the students need like why certain things are done. Steve wrote something about deferral of tax in that magazine which I thought explained the subject well but there's never anything about why certain things are done in auditing which we need when we don't work in it.

    I am just dreading next week.
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    The exam was horrible. Absolutely horrible. I can honestly say AAT audit paper is nothing like ACCA F8. I spent all yesterday crying. 4 months work for nothing and how anyone gets through ACCA exams is beyond me.
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Glynis wrote: »
    The exam was horrible. Absolutely horrible. I can honestly say AAT audit paper is nothing like ACCA F8. I spent all yesterday crying. 4 months work for nothing and how anyone gets through ACCA exams is beyond me.

    You only need 50%, so you could have done better than you think.
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis,

    What you have to remember with ACCA examinations are that they are EXTREMELY time pressured. I am not diluting the credibility or difficulty of AAT examinations but you have to be in the extreme minority to ever finish an ACCA examination in the time allowed. It is far more common to pass an AAT examination and finish the same exam within 1.5 hours (as has happened frequently) but to do the same at ACCA level is unheard of (well I've never heard of it anyway!!)

    I have spoken to a few students about F8 and whilst several students think it was a fair exam, a number think it was confusing in parts (a lot struggled with the perpetual inventory system question). Don't write it off as a fail at this point in time and just enjoy the break.

    Remember what happened when you sat DFS........

    Regards

    steve
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Steve

    I think it is ridiculous what the ACCA expect from us. The F8 exam was completely different than what I had studied for and the question -well they were worded purposely to confuse the students.
    I have contacted ACCA today about this issue because I am not letting this go. All they can say is to fill in the feedback forms! Err like ACCA are going to take notice of them!

    I am completely livid about the exam and that examiner has a lot to bloody answer for! I'd love his pass rates to be low so he gets the sack!
  • Primble
    Primble Registered Posts: 734 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis wrote: »
    Steve

    I think it is ridiculous what the ACCA expect from us. The F8 exam was completely different than what I had studied for and the question -well they were worded purposely to confuse the students.
    I have contacted ACCA today about this issue because I am not letting this go. All they can say is to fill in the feedback forms! Err like ACCA are going to take notice of them!

    I am completely livid about the exam and that examiner has a lot to bloody answer for! I'd love his pass rates to be low so he gets the sack!

    Glynis, i didn't take the paper as I am not far enough yet (and plan to do cima) but why don't you go on the acca forum (if there is one) and see what the general student feedback on the exam is. I myself am quite a dramatic person especially when i get upset but you seem to be taking the extreem and almost being quite rude when people offer support. This forum is for people to discuss AAT and how they may continue after but they don't fill it up with complaints about exams that are irrelevant to the people on this course.

    I honestly wish you all the best. I too find exams hard, and i mean i really struggle and it takes a miracle for me to pass first time as nerves get the better of me. maybe you need to asses your situation and see if you can cut costs in some places to help fund some tutoring?
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis wrote: »
    I think it is ridiculous what the ACCA expect from us. The F8 exam was completely different than what I had studied for and the question -well they were worded purposely to confuse the students.
    I have contacted ACCA today about this issue because I am not letting this go. All they can say is to fill in the feedback forms! Err like ACCA are going to take notice of them! QUOTE]

    glynis,

    I have to ask what exactly it was you expected from the ACCA F8 Audit and Assurance examination?

    Regards
    Steve
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Steve I was NOT expecting something as ridiculous as that paper. 4 months of hard bloody work down the pan! I am furious. In some parts the exam was extremely confusing. You have obviously seen the paper so what do you think? What the hell was that about going concern?
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis,

    I have seen the F8 paper and have looked, in particular, at the going concern question (Q5).

    Going concern (particularly these days) is a crucial issue for the auditor. There is a whole auditing standard on going concern (ISA 570) which you would have come across in your studies. The question concerned was quite practical in nature and is something which auditors have (and still do) come across very frequently given the recent economic downturn. You should have found this question a gift, particularly as there has been lots and lots of articles written about going concern and all the professional bodies have issued guidance to auditors on the audit of going concern.

    In that particular question there is material uncertainty about future events (i.e. the bank renewing the borrowing facilities - the decision won't be made until AFTER the auditors report has been signed) so in that respect you would put an emphasis of matter paragraph in the auditors report to highlight the material uncertainty.

    Regards
    Steve
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    "A gift" you say. I've studied for this paper on my own and thought the whole paper was completely over the top.
  • Bluewednesday
    Bluewednesday Registered Posts: 1,624 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Unfortunately that's how ACCA papers are, this is a pretty standard paper.

    Best just hold on and see how you've done
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis,

    As Annette says, ACCA papers are a step up from what you saw at AAT (again, no disrespect to AAT) and the audit papers are some students worst nightmare. Why? Because not all students work in audit. F8 is mandatory, whereas P7 is optional and you are not encouraged to take that paper unless you (a) work in audit or (b) have audit experience.

    The problem with auditing papers is that there can sometimes be different answers for different scenarios and the model answers try and cater for this, which is why the model answers are pages and pages long.

    You will be surprised the marks you can pick up in an audit paper, simply by applying common sense. The AAT's IAP paper will have introduced you to the basic concepts of auditing, F8 extends this by looking at more in-depth audit procedures and evidence gathered as a result of those procedures. For example, in the going concern question, the auditor will perform much less work on going concern of an entity who is profitable, cash-rich and has a lucrative order book for the next 12-18 months than on one who is suffering from declining profits, nearing borrowing limits and having cash flow difficulties (as in the scenario in Q5 of F8 J10). I know some students said issue an adverse opinion, which I think is inappropriate given that the going concern basis could well be appropriate as the bank could well renew borrowing facilities (read the question: the bank won't make the decision until AFTER the audit report has been signed) - therefore why issue an adverse opinion (stating the FS don't give a true and fair view) when, in fact, they may well do. An EoM paragraph is more appropriate.

    You see - lots of differing views!

    Regards
    Steve
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Steve I said to issue unqualified opinion. Would that be wrong?
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Glynis,

    There is nothing in the question to cast doubt on the truth and fairness of the financial statements and given the facts, an unqualified opinion would be given but you would be expected to know that an EoM paragraph should be included because the question refers to a 'material uncertainty' existing.

    An EoM paragraph DOES NOT affect the auditor's opinion because, unless you're Mystic Meg, auditors cannot see into the future so such a paragraph essentially says (in layman's terms):

    Opinion:
    "Yes we can give reasonable assurance the accounts give a true and fair view" BUT

    Emphasis of Matter:
    "We need to draw your attention to the fact that this company might not be a going concern because of reason X".

    (Obviously, the wording would not be like the above, but it's just to illustrate).

    So you would be half right by issuing an unqualified opinion, but you would have been expected to know that an EoM would be required due to the material uncertainty.

    Regards
    Steve
  • Glynis
    Glynis Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Ok thanks. I hate that examiner whoever he is. Thanks anyway.
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    unless you're Mystic Meg, auditors cannot see into the future

    So what would happen if Mystic Meg became an auditor? :lol:
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    In fairness Glynis, I would expect all students to know who their examiner is to look out for relevant articles and other study material. ACCA F8 examiner is a lady called Pami Bahl. It is her first exam from the previous examiner, Alan Lewin.

    Regards
    Steve
  • Rachey
    Rachey Registered Posts: 589 Epic contributor 🐘
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    This is the link for Accountancy Students and what they thought of the paper. From these comments I find it hard to believe that it was just so unfair.... I know everyone has different strengths and weaknesses but surely this must stop you fom kicking up such a big fuss with the ACCA from what seemed to be a fair paper.

    http://www.accountancystudents.co.uk/discussion/viewthread/16737/
  • Andypandy
    Andypandy Registered Posts: 526 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Don't forget you only need to be 'half right' throughout the whole paper to pass! Time to relax a little now Glynis.
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    To be fair, I really like these kind of discussions, makes me wonder if I should go for auditing, as I did like the audit paper from the AAT and I just think it's interesting. I'm just a bit worried about the competition and getting into it.

    However, I do wonder how Mystic Meg would gather enough evidence for her predictions!

    But, I haven't really got anything useful to say for the rest, but I do agree with Andy that it's time to relax now Glynis!
  • Bluewednesday
    Bluewednesday Registered Posts: 1,624 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Glynis

    Just to let you know some of the ACCA answers are up on the ACCA site, I believe it's only F5 and P3 at the moment but that might mean the rest are on their way.

    Good luck
    Annette
  • messedup89
    messedup89 Registered Posts: 1,281 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Glynis

    Just to let you know some of the ACCA answers are up on the ACCA site, I believe it's only F5 and P3 at the moment but that might mean the rest are on their way.

    Good luck
    Annette

    Thats made me feel so much more confident about my F5 exam now. Thanks :)
  • coojee
    coojee Registered Posts: 794 Epic contributor 🐘
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    I've just looked at the F8 paper and it seems quite straightforward to me. If anything it looks a little easier than the AAT assessment.

    Having said that I do remember when I was doing ACCA I had to change jobs so that I worked in audit before I could pass the paper.
  • mark057
    mark057 Registered Posts: 354 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    I'm preparing for the F4 (Global law) Acca paper in Dec.

    I realise there are 10 marks awarded for each question. What is the best way to pick up the ten marks and roughly how long should your answer be given the time pressure?

    Mark
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