Speegs MAAT - Cleaner!

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speegs
speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
Question...

Did I study for three years, pass numerous exams, and complete CPD every year, to become a cleaner?

Answer..... apparently.....

Yes.

I have been told at work by two other colleagues that the cleaner has been sacked and that we are all doing the cleaners job ourselves now.

I do not have a problem with this except that I am registered disabled and cannot....

1) Move the recycling wheely bin down to our loading bay.

2) Use an (old fashion stand up) hoover around three office housing 16 people.

3) Get down on my hands and knees to scrub the kitchen floor because they are too tight to by a mop and bucket.

In fairness everyone is chipping in but I am disabled so it harder for me.

What does everyone else think about this. Is there a law to protect me and my able bodied colleagues?

Speegs - Pissed off!
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Comments

  • anniem
    anniem Registered Posts: 1,326 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Sympathy! Having spent the last 5 weeks entirely on crutches (and the preceding 3 years with advanced osteoarthritis and on/off crutches to get about) I do know exactly how hard it is to do some of the jobs you've mentioned!

    A couple of things spring to mind:

    1. Why was the cleaner sacked? I'm nosy!

    2. As the cleaner wasn't made redundant, there is no legal reason why you can't employ another one - you still need a cleaner.

    3. I've learnt during my time being unable to do stuff at different levels, I work at the level I can reach - I have clean windows! I don't do floors, the bottom rack of the dishwasher or the bath. I can however manage the cooker, the work surface and bathroom basins (but not loos, it's the boys that pee in all directions, not me - so I make them do it - there are 3 of them and 1 of me in the house!)

    I'm sure none of them are too pleased about it either, so suggest you 'find' somebody who's looking for a cleaning job!
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
  • oakley
    oakley Registered Posts: 73 Regular contributor ⭐
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    We were asked to do the same thing at our work place after sacking our cleaners to save money, emptying our bins and hoovering the office floor.

    There were a few takers to this who did a wonderful job but nobody was really keen.

    From my point of view I am employed as a financial controller and should be given work at that level, my employer has a duty to offer me work suitable for my position and although we had sales reduced by 80% due to the recession, I felt it did not mean I had to become a cleaner, and they were welcome to make me redundant!
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    The old cleaner was rubbish. To get a new one in was almost impossible under the TUPE rules so they have decided to go without.

    Under the TUPE regulations/law, if you can cleaning company's the new company has to offer the contract to you current cleaner, and has to employ them it they accept the contract. This is a law to protect low paid workers from losing their jobs.

    The other people in the office can up with the idea of having no cleaner so they are resigned to the fact that they will have to clean up after themselves. I did say I was happy to do the washing up and dusting around desks and mid level stuff but they have ignored my request.

    speegs
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    The other people in the office can up with the idea of having no cleaner so they are resigned to the fact that they will have to clean up after themselves. I did say I was happy to do the washing up and dusting around desks and mid level stuff but they have ignored my request.

    speegs

    I would have thought this was disability discrimination - you physically can't do some tasks. It would be against health and safety for you, therefore I would have thought this should exempt you. You are willing to do the stuff you are able to do, so I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem.

    If they are being d**ks about it, then take it to HR - employers can't take H&S/ disability discrimination lightly.
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    If they are being d**ks about it, then take it to HR - employers can't take H&S/ disability discrimination lightly.


    Ha ha ha ha ha HR. You are joking aren't you. HR is on maternity leave and we have been told not to tell her that the cleaners have been sacked.

    Believe me. When she finds out the **** is really going to hit the fan. I can hardly wait.

    Speegs
  • taskey
    taskey Registered Posts: 1,800 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    Ha ha ha ha ha HR. You are joking aren't you. HR is on maternity leave and we have been told not to tell her that the cleaners have been sacked.

    Believe me. When she finds out the **** is really going to hit the fan. I can hardly wait.

    Speegs

    all the more reason to tell her about the problem. i would email / phone her and ask for some "advise" on what to do, she will then be aware of the problem and also the fact that you cannot physically do what your "team" are doing and you feel like it could cause animosity between the "team". you will not be snitch you are just asking for advise - if you see what i mean.

    Tracy
  • anniem
    anniem Registered Posts: 1,326 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    I would have thought this was disability discrimination - you physically can't do some tasks. It would be against health and safety for you, therefore I would have thought this should exempt you. You are willing to do the stuff you are able to do, so I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem.

    If they are being d**ks about it, then take it to HR - employers can't take H&S/ disability discrimination lightly.

    I completely agree. Speegs, you are being treated in an unacceptable, unfair manner. In the light of the new information in your last post it isn't as simple as it first appeared!
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    The HR manager will be back from maternity leave in just three weeks so rather than contact her and risk causing problems in the office, I will wait until she comes back.

    Upon her return I will proceed to attempt to scrub the kitchen floor in office hours. That should do the trick. I am so naughty.
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Monsoon wrote: »
    I would have thought this was disability discrimination - you physically can't do some tasks. It would be against health and safety for you, therefore I would have thought this should exempt you. You are willing to do the stuff you are able to do, so I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem.

    I'm more inclined to believe it would have been discrimination if Speegs had been excluded from all tasks without even being consulted in the first instance. A risk assessment should then be carried out to determine what duties Speegs practically can and cannot do and the results of this used to allow her to perform easier tasks while exempting her from the more difficult or hazardous tasks.

    As for the rights and wrongs of doing the cleaning yourselves, well the £1,000+ spent per year that could potentially be saved could become the straw that breaks the camels back and push a weak company into liquidation. Every little helps as they say.
  • Poodle
    Poodle Registered Posts: 711 Epic contributor 🐘
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    speegs,

    you could always try to use the computer wearing wet rubber gloves, after cleaning, that should give some very interesting results on the management reports :)
  • Poodle
    Poodle Registered Posts: 711 Epic contributor 🐘
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    blobbyh wrote: »

    Every little helps as they say.

    I thought it was the little old lady who said that as she weed in the sea!
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Hi Blobbyh.

    I don't actually know where discrimation came into this because I was more than happy to do my fair share on the cleaning but it has to be stuff I can physically do.

    As for money saving. We are a multi million dollar company and were doing extremely well. the problem was that we were paying in the region of £8000 pa for a cleaner who was completely useless. So I can fully understand sacking him, but we should at least replace him or dish out the duties on a more sensible basis. For example:

    1) I can do the washing up and drying.
    2) I can put cups away into cupboards.
    3) I can use a hoover if it has a hose and it do an old fashioned stand up one.
    4) I can mop floors if I have a hop and bucket.

    I can basically do anything that does not involve bending my spine as it is held in position with 17 titanium rods.

    But I mean seriously, who at home washes their kitchen more with a scouring brush on their hands and knees? Surely everyone uses a mop in the 21 century. :)

    Speegs
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    On the bright side. At least if I am now a cleaner, the TUPE law will apply to me also and they will have a great deal of hassle if they ever tried to sack me! Hahahahahaha

    Speegs
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    blobbyh wrote: »
    I'm more inclined to believe it would have been discrimination if Speegs had been excluded from all tasks without even being consulted in the first instance. A risk assessment should then be carried out to determine what duties Speegs practically can and cannot do and the results of this used to allow her to perform easier tasks while exempting her from the more difficult or hazardous tasks.

    Agreed, that's the long of it. I posted the short of it :D

    Bottom line is, Speegs should not have to do work s/he (sorry Speegs, don't know which!) can't.

    Speegs, look after yourself til HR gets back, and yeah, mention something then. Don't let anyone bully you into doing anything you can't comfortably do. Maybe if you ninja all the 'easy' (for you) tasks, no-one can complain about you not doing the other things?
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    4) I can mop floors if I have a hop and bucket.

    I thought you had movement difficulties? :-)
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Speegs is most definitely a "she".

    The boobs are big enough that's for sure. Or though apparently no big enough for the old lady who told me I was in the wrong toilets yesterday. I pointed to my boobs and did a Dawn French.

    Haha

    Speegs
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    blobbyh wrote: »
    I thought you had movement difficulties? :-)

    I do have movement difficulties due to my spine being bolted into one position. That does not stop me bending my waste and neck. I do not want to be left out of all the cleaning duties just because I am disabled. I want to do my fair share as I get sick of people feeling sorry for me. I just want my colleagues to be sensible about it.

    Someone did mention that I should flood the kitchen and then leave it with a wet floor sign and when people complain I should say "I can't find the mop".

    When you are disabled you have to develop different ways of doing things in order to keep yourself independent.

    Anyway I am going to independently take myself home now and do some.....................

    book keeping and final accounts - woohoo I can hardly wait for the excitement to begin. See you all tomorrow.

    Speegs (definitely female - well the last time I checked anyway).
  • blobbyh
    blobbyh Registered Posts: 2,415 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    I think you missed my quote Speegs... the part where you mentioned a hop and bucket.
  • jilt
    jilt Registered Posts: 2,903 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Speegs you missed blobby's joke

    Originally Posted by speegs
    4) I can mop floors if I have a hop and bucket.

    Sorry blobby you beat me to it!
  • anniem
    anniem Registered Posts: 1,326 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    On the flip side, I can see why your cleaning bill was so high if the chap was practically doing a 'Private Benjamin' around the kitchen on his hands and knees.

    Perhaps if more efficient cleaning regime were implemented in the first place he may have been more enthusiastic about it?
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
  • A-Vic
    A-Vic Registered Posts: 6,970 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    dam i need a bigger practise we all in my job have to do the cleaning even the accountant cleans
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Oh yeah Blobbyh. Hehehehehe
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    Hi Blobbyh.

    I don't actually know where discrimation came into this because I was more than happy to do my fair share on the cleaning but it has to be stuff I can physically do.

    As for money saving. We are a multi million dollar company and were doing extremely well. the problem was that we were paying in the region of £8000 pa for a cleaner who was completely useless. So I can fully understand sacking him, but we should at least replace him or dish out the duties on a more sensible basis. For example:

    1) I can do the washing up and drying.
    2) I can put cups away into cupboards.
    3) I can use a hoover if it has a hose and it do an old fashioned stand up one.
    4) I can mop floors if I have a hop and bucket.

    I can basically do anything that does not involve bending my spine as it is held in position with 17 titanium rods.

    But I mean seriously, who at home washes their kitchen more with a scouring brush on their hands and knees? Surely everyone uses a mop in the 21 century. :)

    Speegs

    Just offer to do some of the above jobs you feel you can do without causing your back any issues?

    If they question that offer then I'd take it HR. Otherwise I don't really see a problem?
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    PGM you are correct, except that when I pointed this out to my colleagues they said I was just making excuses. HR is on maternity leave and I have been given strict instructions not to tell her. She will be back soon though and then all hell will break loose and there is no way she will agree to doing the cleaning. I will bide my time until then.

    speegs
  • PGM
    PGM Registered Posts: 1,954 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    PGM you are correct, except that when I pointed this out to my colleagues they said I was just making excuses. HR is on maternity leave and I have been given strict instructions not to tell her. She will be back soon though and then all hell will break loose and there is no way she will agree to doing the cleaning. I will bide my time until then.

    speegs

    Your colleagues have made 2 big mistakes there!

    If I was you I would inform HR, especially if they still feel you are "making excuses".
  • JaffasGirl
    JaffasGirl Registered Posts: 387 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    in my office, me and one of my bosses do all the cleaning. There are only three of us, so it isnt so bad. I was told however, (by our head office) that if my boss was too cheap to hire a cleaner, they can do it themselves!! lol

    Although, my other boss, fits the stereotype to well, and needs a treat whenever he manages to do a little bit of washing up! I do find myself getting annoyed when he looks at the sink and go 'er perhaps you should do some washing up', i mean i'm not adverse to doing it, but when he doesnt do it cause its not 'his job' i can say its not bloody mine either! christ i could get paid much more for being a cleaner!!
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    JaffasGirl wrote: »
    in my office, me and one of my bosses do all the cleaning. There are only three of us, so it isnt so bad. I was told however, (by our head office) that if my boss was too cheap to hire a cleaner, they can do it themselves!! lol

    Although, my other boss, fits the stereotype to well, and needs a treat whenever he manages to do a little bit of washing up! I do find myself getting annoyed when he looks at the sink and go 'er perhaps you should do some washing up', i mean i'm not adverse to doing it, but when he doesnt do it cause its not 'his job' i can say its not bloody mine either! christ i could get paid much more for being a cleaner!!

    I would tell your boss to lead by example.

    Anyway, we have had a small break through. One of colleagues was cleaning the kitchen floor on her hands and knees and did something to her back getting back up on Friday. Mop and bucket here we come. Let's see what happens.

    Speegs
  • anniem
    anniem Registered Posts: 1,326 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Industrial injury claim coming up?

    Which is most cost effective? Useless cleaner ad 8k per annum or industrial injury claim and uncleaned offices?
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
  • speegs
    speegs Registered Posts: 854 Epic contributor 🐘
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    I doubt she will claim as it was her idea to get rid of the cleaners. I think it is more of a case of "I told you so".

    I feel better now. Hahahahahahahahaha
  • anniem
    anniem Registered Posts: 1,326 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    speegs wrote: »
    I doubt she will claim as it was her idea to get rid of the cleaners. I think it is more of a case of "I told you so".

    I feel better now. Hahahahahahahahaha

    I know it isn't quite revenge, but I do see it slightly different now you've explained it was her idea in the first place!

    Revenge is Sweet! (I am not a nasty person, honestly, but do think it is sort of self-inflicted)! :lol:
    FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire
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