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I think 'Chartered' is more dominated word for people who are in search of an accountant and most people in general think that only CA can be the right accountant for them (I dont think they are aware what the difference is really). We need to address the 'power of AAT qualified accountant'.
o i can tell you the difference we do more of the work involved (not saying chartered are lazy) but will say we the ones who do a majority of the work0 -
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I used to feel a bit odd calling myself an "accountant" when not chartered, waiting for the "chartered?" question in reply...but more recently I am totally happy with "accountant".
Do we put ourselves down as AAT people? A very senior manager I know (AAT qualified but not chartered) insists that AAT is not a professional qualification.......0 -
When I qualify I will not be saying Accounting Technician as I have mentioned on a thread before I was talking to a girl who had done a short course on Accounts and was now allowed to call herself an Accounting Technician. If you think I am going through all this hell to call myself the same as she does you have got another thing coming! :laugh:
I will hopefully soon become an AAT Qualified Accountant so there!0 -
When I qualify I will not be saying Accounting Technician as I have mentioned on a thread before I was talking to a girl who had done a short course on Accounts and was now allowed to call herself an Accounting Technician. If you think I am going through all this hell to call myself the same as she does you have got another thing coming! :laugh:
I will hopefully soon become an AAT Qualified Accountant so there!
Hurrah! Good for you!!!!!!!0 -
I used to feel a bit odd calling myself an "accountant" when not chartered
This is something that bugs me. To have "chartered accountants" means they are distinguishing themselves as "chartered." This means that you must have non-chartered accountants, otherwise there would be no need for the distinction (you can't see a dark shadow without a light source etc).
Let's ignore for a minute that 'accountant' is not a protected term and any tom **** or harry can call themselves an accountant if they so wished. If there are Chartered accountants, there must be non-chartered accountancy qualifications, which is where bodies like the AAT and IFA (Institue of Financial Accountants, not financial advisors!!) come in. We are the qualified accountants, as opposed to qualified chartered accountants.
I'm not saying every AAT person is an accoutant. Some use their qualification to be bookkeepers or ledger clerks and I guess accounting technician is an accurate (if rather PC sounding) umbrella title for those roles. But for those who use their AAT qualification to do tax, prepare final accounts etc - that makes us accountants. Technically speaking, even chartered accountants who do the technical work (i.e. sit there doing double entry and preparing accounts, as opposed to delegating it all and drinking tea) are also accounting technicians. They've just got a better title they can use, and so quite rightly they use it.
I just can't believe that people are studying the AAT or indeed are qualified in it, are doing accountancy work, and don't think they can be called accountants! There are lots and lots of these people about and I really think the AAT need to push their own marketing, and also make sure colleges and other learning providers know to tell students they are training to be an accountant, there are still people who think they have to go on to a chartered qualification before they can be accountants...
God I've got a bee in my bonnet about it this morning. Might be because I'm procrastinating, got a mean job lined up that I don't want to look at yet!!
I'll shh now, I know I was rambling a bit
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I agree with everything that's been said, but if someone questions me about what the AAT qualification allows me to do or what the difference would be if they went to a chartered accountant does then I also point out that there's a few banks which don't accept accounts prepared by an AAT person to save any potential embarrasment down the line.0
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I agree with everything that's been said, but if someone questions me about what the AAT qualification allows me to do or what the difference would be if they went to a chartered accountant does then I also point out that there's a few banks which don't accept accounts prepared by an AAT person to save any potential embarrasment down the line.
I forgot about that one. The banks that don't take AAT will take IFA (which the other partner here is) so we effectively have all bases covered.
It's always good to check periodically which banks are on the AAT approved list as the AAT are in talks with all the ones who don't take them to get them to change their minds, and if a change takes place, we're not likely to know about it til we ask.0 -
I forgot about that one. The banks that don't take AAT will take IFA (which the other partner here is) so we effectively have all bases covered.
It's always good to check periodically which banks are on the AAT approved list as the AAT are in talks with all the ones who don't take them to get them to change their minds, and if a change takes place, we're not likely to know about it til we ask.
Thanks Monsoon for this info regarding AAT and IFA. How can I check which banks accept AAT Accountants or How can I find that information for a specific bank's Accepted Accounting Body?
Many Thanks'0 -
I thought I would throw my two pennies worth in on this !!... I have worked in accountancy for a firm of Chartered Accountants for 20 years. I have gained knowledge in every area without having a qualification.
Three years ago, I changed jobs (a new challenge) and started working for another form of Chartered Accountants. My new employer asked if I wanted to become qualified as this would be useful in the future, should a partnership position arise, and so I completed AAT and am now a MAAT.
Whilst I am proud of being a qualified accountant (and in my eyes, AAT is no walk in the park and should not be 'down graded'), I have never had a problem with calling myself an accountant. Just because AAT is not the same level as Certified or Chartered, the work undertaken, ethics and regulations are all the same (except audit).
When you are asked the question 'What do you do?'... Tell them you are a qualified accountant!!! You worked for it and pay the subscriptions !!0 -
Well said, Fingersan!
MSB, ask the AAT direct what banks accept AAT prepared accounts.0 -
I found this in the website of a chartered accountants company:
Are All Accountants The Same?
Did you know that anyone can set up as an accountant - even if they are not qualified?
You should always ensure your accountant is qualified and a member of either the Institute of Chartered Accountants (represented by ACA/FCA), or the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (represented by ACCA/FCCA).
At Numerion Associates both partners are qualified accountants and members of the Institute of Chartered Accountants, adhering to stringent ethical and professional guidelines.
Eerr where are the AAT qualified? Based of my experience, some accountancy practice look down too at AAT accountants, maybe because our level of knowledge is not as higher as their level...0 -
As a tutor i have taught AAT students to become Accounting Technicians. Nothing more nothing less.
If you do not want to be referred to as a technician then the answer is simple. Become a chartered.
Standards are set to become an accountant and in my opinion if you want more get more.0 -
beverly hudson wrote: »As a tutor i have taught AAT students to become Accounting Technicians. Nothing more nothing less.
If you do not want to be referred to as a technician then the answer is simple. Become a chartered.
Standards are set to become an accountant and in my opinion if you want more get more.
Beverly with respect that doesn't make sense.
The exams for the Institute of Financial Accountants are of a similar level to AAT and that qualifies them as accountants. ACCA etc qualify people as Chartered Accountants.
Are you telling all the MAATs who run their own practices that they aren't accountants?
'Technician' is just semantics. Someone has already pointed out that dustbin men are sometimes referred to as "refuse technicians." We all know them as dustmen. Likewise, the job is that of an accountant.
My exams qualify me as a technician (definition: someone who does technical work). My experience qualifies me as an accountant.0 -
Eerr where are the AAT qualified? Based of my experience, some accountancy practice look down too at AAT accountants, maybe because our level of knowledge is not as higher as their level...
I'm not sure how to say this without being bitchy, which is not my intention at all. Yes, some chartereds look down on AAT - but plenty of them respect it too. Perhaps it's still not got the recognition it deserves in some circles. (There we go, I did it, I think).
I think to state on a website "you have to have a chartered accountant" for general work that any non-chartered accountant can do is misleading and I don't think it's right. They are rightly trying to distinguish themselves from the myriad practices that aren't chartered, but I think there are better ways of doing it than misleading the public into thinking they have to use chartered, when this just isn't true in the majority of cases.
It's up to the public to find out what's true, what they need and not to take everything they read at face value.
There are enough clients for all of us, so I don't think this level of elitism is necessary.
However, it filters down - MAAT MIPs might say "you ought to have someone qualified with a professional body, as then you have the security of training, experience, PII and supervision" and thus say you should never use anyone non-qualified. How many student members are self employed running their own practices? I was one.
I think it's important that the public know that anyone can call themselves an accountant. I inherited a shocking mess from a very strange chap who is an 'accountant', no qualifications, goodness only knows where he got the figures from, my client couldnt believe what a mess he made... That's not to say that all non-formally-qualified aren't any good, there are good unqualifieds just as there are bad qualifieds and that includes chartered (yes, I have inherited mistakes and omissions bordering on negligence from chartered firms). For balance, I've also inherited perfect working papers from chartered firms that made me improve my working papers.0 -
I think, in all honesty, this is one of those arguments that exists that will never be resolved (a bit like the qualified vs. unqualified argument that often raises its head on AccountingWEB).
My advice (as both FMAAT and FCCA) would be to call yourselves accountants if that's what you do, bookkeepers if that's what you do and shelf stackers if that's what you do. Prior to becoming ACCA qualified I always referred to myself as an accountant because that's what I do! I couldn't call myself an audit partner at that point because I wasn't but I sure as hell was an accountant, with a qualification. Nobody can dispute that AAT is not a professional qualification. If it is not a professional qualification, what is it?
If members are so keen about what they should (or should not) call themselves, then I would go straight to the horses mouth and ask the AAT to clarify the position. However, as Monsoon correctly points out a 16 year old with a GCSE in accounting could quite easily rent an office and set up shop referring as '16 Year Old & Co Accountants Ltd'. What differentiates AAT qualified accountants is the fact that they belong to a professional body who imposes certain standards they must conform to after they have demonstrated their ability to become a member. I am not suggesting that those accountants who do not belong to a professional body, or those that subscribe to bodies where exams are not required, are any less competent than AAT members or even CCAB members, but I think what is more important is the eligibility being a member of AAT gives you in terms of credibility. That is worth its weight in gold compared to whether or not it entitles you to call yourself an accountant.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to people 'looking down their nose' at the AAT qualification. Those of us who did do a CCAB qualification post AAT will know that there is another argument about which is the best CCAB body. I think we all have better things to be doing with our time than arguing with fellow professionals over silly things!
Best wishes
Steve0 -
Steve Collings wrote: »I think we all have better things to be doing with our time than arguing with fellow professionals over silly things!
Best wishes
Steve
Couldn't agree more!
Don't care what anybody calls me - god knows I answer to most things; as long as I know what I can do, and more importantly can't do, and other people know that and will pay me good money to do it then quite honestly I couldn't give a flying f... what they want to call me!!!!!!!FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire0 -
jackieshep wrote: »I would be interested to know what AAT members say when people ask you what you do for a living. We're not book keepers, but we're not accountants either, and to say you are an accounting technician outside the accounting profession you are met with blank looks!
I am self employed working for two companies and give myself the title Accounts Manager.
Doesn't it really depend who's asking? And how much detail they want. I would shy away from Account Manager, as it sounds like more of a sales/customer service role, or that you are the manager of an accounts department at a commercial/industrial company.
My official job title is "Accounts Assistant" and that's I put under 'occupation' on, eg my car insurance.
Most of my non-accounting/finance acquaintances outside the workplace accept "I work in accounts for CompanyX" as all the detail they really need. It's the people I meet that want slightly more detail that I have trouble with- I have the same problem with Accounts Technician not being recognised.
Oddly, I don't consider myself an "accountant" as I work in industry (as opposed to practice), but that's a whole other can of worms. I don't prepare other people's statutory accounts, so I'm not really an accountant.0 -
Bookworm55 wrote: »Doesn't it really depend who's asking? And how much detail they want. I would shy away from Account Manager, as it sounds like more of a sales/customer service role, or that you are the manager of an accounts department at a commercial/industrial company.
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I completely agree with this, I have found that some chartered accountants get very uppity if an AAT technician refers to themselves as an accountant. Where as Joe Public probably doesn't really care or understand the difference!0 -
oh no, Wikipedia now comes out with this:
"In addition to the bodies above, the Association of Accounting Technicians (AAT) (designatory letters MAAT) is the UK’s leading body for junior accounting staff"
Junior accounting staff!??!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Accountant0 -
Looks like I'm creating a wiki account and correcting that then !
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I really can't be bothered.....
I can!!.......LOLIn addition to the bodies above, the Association of Accounting Technicians (AAT) (designatory letters MAAT) is the UK’s leading non CCAB qualification. After passing exams and obtaining relevant experience, its members can apply for MIP (Member in Practice) status and are then licensed and regulated by the AAT to provide Practice services. The AAT is also sponsored by the professional accounting bodies CIPFA, ICAEW, CIMA and ICAS. ACCA offers a status as a Certified Accounting Technician (CAT)but it should however be noted that CAT's are not eligible for practicing certificates and therefore cannot operate outside of industry. AIA offers IAT with the London Chamber of Commerce & Industry.0
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