How do you answer?
Options
Comments
-
I never knew it was so easy to edit wikipedia.......0
-
beverly hudson wrote: »As a tutor i have taught AAT students to become Accounting Technicians. Nothing more nothing less.
If you do not want to be referred to as a technician then the answer is simple. Become a chartered.
Standards are set to become an accountant and in my opinion if you want more get more.
I disagree. The actual word technician can mislead many people into thinking it is a lesser qualification than it is. Wherever I have worked I have worked alongside accountants with chartered qualifications and there is little difference in the work we do or the professionalism with which we do it.
I am however willing to be proven wrong. Perhaps you could provide, say, seven examples (outside of auditing) where a chartered qualification is of more practical use than AAT?0 -
wildgoose1uk wrote: »I can!!.......LOL
Haha nice one well done that person0 -
0
-
wildgoose1uk wrote: »I disagree. The actual word technician can mislead many people into thinking it is a lesser qualification than it is. Wherever I have worked I have worked alongside accountants with chartered qualifications and there is little difference in the work we do or the professionalism with which we do it.
I am however willing to be proven wrong. Perhaps you could provide, say, seven examples (outside of auditing) where a chartered qualification is of more practical use than AAT?
Well done Wildgoose1uk and agree with what you said, I do the same jobs as my colleagues which are ACCA or ACA, once I even replaced an ACCA member in an accounts assistant's position because her knowledge of bookkeeping and double entry was horrible!0 -
I have not yet taken part in this debate, so I thought I would........
I think we are in danger of getting three distinct things all mixed up here and therefore confusing ourselves.
The first is what do we do, or what do we aspire to do, for a living. From the posts I assume that we all agree that we are all Accountants or Auditors. I am not self employed or in private practice, but I am an Accountant dealing with budgets, management and statutory accounts for the organisation I work for. I am clearly an Accountant.
The second thing is, as I am an Accountant: to I belong to any Professional Body to show that I have reached a particular level of training, that I undergo CPD and am regulated by my peers. So as an Accountant I may be AAT qualified and/or ACCA, or ACA, or CIPFA, or CIMA or ...........,or unqualified.
Finally, I have a job title given to me by my employer. This is matter of house style and probably reflects where I am in my organisations heirarchy. Just because a post has the title of Accounting Technician does not necessarily mean that the post holder has to be an Accounting Technician.
There are good and bad CCAB Accountants, just as there are good and bad AAT Accountants, levels of experience and acquired knowledge vary considerably within each group. But in the very rigid employee structures you find in large organisations and in the public sector, when creating personnel profiles for various roles, the requirement for a CCAB Accountant will feature in the role of Deparmental Head and higher, while Section Heads profiles may specify an AAT Accountant.
In Local Goverment and similar bodies, there are only two posts that have to filled by statute, the Monitoring Officer and the section 151 Officer, the Responsible Financial Officer. By law, the section 151 Officer must be a member of one of the CCAB bodies.0 -
wildgoose1uk wrote: »I never knew it was so easy to edit wikipedia.......
it's back with the "junior accounting staff! Did you change it?The Association of Accounting Technicians (AAT) (designatory letters MAAT) is the UK’s leading body offering a non-CCAB qualification for junior accounting staff. After passing exams and obtaining relevant experience, its members can apply for MIP (Member in Practice) status and are then licensed and regulated by the AAT to provide Practice services. The AAT is also sponsored by the professional accounting bodies CIPFA, ICAEW, CIMA and ICAS.0 -
Wasn't me..... it was this guy:
(cur | prev) 14:20, 11 November 2010 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (10,492 bytes) (→Titles of British accountancy qualifications: insert heading for Accounting Technicians and clean up section) (undo)
hmmmm....let's see what happens0 -
Sorry but I do not see how AAT is anything other than a junior qualification. How can you say it isn't when it is not a CCAB qualification? AAT is usually a springboard to other qualifications and is the most junior of all. I suppose the ACCA technician is also a junior qualification along with the bookkeepers qualification.0
-
beverly hudson wrote: »Sorry but I do not see how AAT is anything other than a junior qualification. How can you say it isn't when it is not a CCAB qualification? AAT is usually a springboard to other qualifications and is the most junior of all. I suppose the ACCA technician is also a junior qualification along with the bookkeepers qualification.
and if that is your attitude good luck lol0 -
How inspiring you must be for your students if that's your attitude!!!!!
I'd go and find another tutor if I were one of your students (which, by the way, we all very much doubt you have) as you are one of the most demoralising people I've encountered here.
We don't all spend our hard earned money, study for hours and work bloody hard to be labelled 'Junior' - that is where we came from and I for one have worked incredibly hard to achieve what I've achieved.
I suggest you find another job and start showing the people you work with that you respect what they are doing, as you clearly don't respect what we've worked to achieve and what you purport to be tutoring.
I'd also add that my pay has gone up 250% between starting AAT in November 2007 and completing in August 2010, this wouldn't have happened if I had stayed in a junior accounting role - and I don't pay myself, that is what other people decide/choose/are happy to pay me!FMAAT - AAT Licensed Member in Practice - Pewsey, Wiltshire0 -
beverly hudson wrote: »Sorry but I do not see how AAT is anything other than a junior qualification. How can you say it isn't when it is not a CCAB qualification? AAT is usually a springboard to other qualifications and is the most junior of all. I suppose the ACCA technician is also a junior qualification along with the bookkeepers qualification.
My last job was Income Accountant for an organisation with a turnover of just under £100m. The people who put me in that position were all chartered in one form or another. I really do not see how you justify calling that a junior position and perhaps it shows that those in the field who hold what you would presumably term 'senior' qualifications have a better grasp of what the qualification offers than you do.
Incidentally some posts being advertised now that would traditionally have asked for a CCAB qualification now ask for IFAC (of which AAT is a member).0 -
wildgoose1uk wrote: »I disagree. The actual word technician can mislead many people into thinking it is a lesser qualification than it is. Wherever I have worked I have worked alongside accountants with chartered qualifications and there is little difference in the work we do or the professionalism with which we do it.
I am however willing to be proven wrong. Perhaps you could provide, say, seven examples (outside of auditing) where a chartered qualification is of more practical use than AAT?
Just wanted to bump this post in case you missed it Beverly as you do not appear to have answered it.0 -
Dont feed the trolls0
-
I'm not a troll Avic I was merely pointing out that some companies view AAT as a junior qualification and as a tutor that's how we teach it. It's usually a stepping stone but is also a qualification which people should be proud. In the hierarchy of qualifications it would be considered junior that's all I was saying.0
-
-
beverly hudson wrote: »I'm not a troll Avic I was merely pointing out that some companies view AAT as a junior qualification and as a tutor that's how we teach it. It's usually a stepping stone but is also a qualification which people should be proud. In the hierarchy of qualifications it would be considered junior that's all I was saying.beverly hudson wrote: »Originally Posted by beverly hudson View Post
Sorry but I do not see how AAT is anything other than a junior qualification. How can you say it isn't when it is not a CCAB qualification? AAT is usually a springboard to other qualifications and is the most junior of all. I suppose the ACCA technician is also a junior qualification along with the bookkeepers qualification.
Well that's not what you said - you were giving a personal opinion.0 -
beverly hudson wrote: »I'm not a troll Avic I was merely pointing out that some companies view AAT as a junior qualification and as a tutor that's how we teach it. It's usually a stepping stone but is also a qualification which people should be proud. In the hierarchy of qualifications it would be considered junior that's all I was saying.
With respect I do not think that is how your message came across. I have taught AAT students in the past and I have never stood up in front of class teaching with the thought in mind that they are merely using AAT as a stepping stone - if tutors are teaching with that attitude, they should not be teaching. AAT is a qualification in its own right and it matters not where it stands in the "hierarchy".
Students who become members of AAT are members of a professional organisation that are bound by certain standards and have obligations imposed on them such as CPD and insurance for MIPs. Tuition providers are also subjected to scrutiny by the AAT to make sure standards are being maintained. To me that is very much a professional body.0 -
beverly hudson wrote: »I'm not a troll Avic I was merely pointing out that some companies view AAT as a junior qualification and as a tutor that's how we teach it. It's usually a stepping stone but is also a qualification which people should be proud. In the hierarchy of qualifications it would be considered junior that's all I was saying.
well with the way you worded it what do you expect and yes you got the reaction you asked for so in my book that is a troll0 -
Steve you are right and I apologise to anyone who was offended by my post. I will no longer contribute to any further discussions on here. Good luck for the future.0
-
An interesting debate. I am both a member of AAT and ACCA and work for a top 20 firm of accountants. Whilst I appreciate that there is no definition of the word accountant I would say that the general understanding of the term "qualified accountant" in the profession is someone CCAB qualified rather than AAT.0
-
An interesting debate. I am both a member of AAT and ACCA and work for a top 20 firm of accountants. Whilst I appreciate that there is no definition of the word accountant I would say that the general understanding of the term "qualified accountant" in the profession is someone CCAB qualified rather than AAT.
I think that depends to a large extent on the perception of those involved. I understand where you are coming from but would add that it is generally a comment made amongst people who hold chartered qualifications and under those terms I am sure no one would quibble that AAT is p/q.
However in wider circles there is an argument for referring to AAT as qualified. After all it is a qualification so why bother doing it if it does not qualify you? Likewise you have those who are QBE, in terms of a CCAB body again they are not qualified but in terms of employability if they can show they have the requisite experience and skills then that would not prevent them obtaining work on that basis.
AAT is a stormingly good qualification as I am sure you know. Did you have the same experience as I did when studying ACCA when people who were sitting professional exams such as the Taxation paper and financial reporting had no real idea about double entry and debits as opposed to credits? Those same people are entitled to call themselves p/q (in CCAB terms) but the reality of it is that I would have been a little hesitant to let them loose on my books.0 -
Hi Wildgoose. I agree it is a tricky one. It is a shame there isn`t more clear cut definitions of what "accountants", "qualified accountants", "p/t qualified accountants" are. I guess at the end of the day it is the quality of work performed by the individual that defines how far someone can go in the accountancy profession rather than what they would prefer to call themselves.0
-
After 8 years working at a chartered practice and 12 years of running my own practice together with my business partner (both FMAAT), I condsider myself an Accountant. If anybody asks I tell them I run my own Accountancy practice. I am more than competant at what I do and happily call myself an accountant.
If clients query I also explain the main difference between myself and ACCA is that I can't carry out audit. However, to be honest most our clients are more interested in the tax they have to pay and that when they ring our office they speak to me and not get passed around a huge office. Very few these days seem concerned to the level of your qualification.
However, I have always ever considered myself part qualified with AAT. That may be down to my history of working in a Chartered practice. It doesnt bother me that I am part qualified in terms of exams as I have gained more experience from doing the job than I ever did sitting exams.
If you run a practice or you work within Accounts and you are happy that you can do the job then you are an ACCOUNTANT - Simples!0 -
beverly hudson wrote: »I'm not a troll Avic I was merely pointing out that some companies view AAT as a junior qualification and as a tutor that's how we teach it. It's usually a stepping stone but is also a qualification which people should be proud. In the hierarchy of qualifications it would be considered junior that's all I was saying.
If thats the case you would call degrees junior, as they as below Masters and phd's.0 -
If thats the case you would call degrees junior, as they as below Masters and phd's.
Exactly what I was thinking. Furthermore, take a look at the currect DFS examiner, Donald MacAskill, he teaches accounting, at the school of Accounting, Economics, and Statistics, at Edinburgh University. He has a BA, he is a member of ACMA, has a Masters in Philosophy, has a Cert Ed(FE) which qualifies him to teach, and has FHEAI as he organises conferences. Although I do not know what qualifications Beverly has, I would like to ask if she would refer to people without BOTH a PhD AND a Cert Ed as junior teachers?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.2K Books to buy and sell
- 2.3K General discussion
- 18.9K For AAT students
- 268 NEW! Qualifications 2022
- 147 General Qualifications 2022 discussion
- 9 AAT Level 2 Certificate in Accounting
- 44 AAT Level 3 Diploma in Accounting
- 65 AAT Level 4 Diploma in Professional Accounting
- 8.9K For accounting professionals
- 23 coronavirus (Covid-19)
- 274 VAT
- 92 Software
- 274 Tax
- 138 Bookkeeping
- 7.3K General accounting discussion
- 194 AAT member discussion
- 3.8K For everyone
- 38 AAT news and announcements
- 352 Feedback for AAT
- 2.8K Chat and off-topic discussion
- 590 Job postings
- 17 Who can benefit from AAT?
- 36 Where can AAT take me?
- 44 Getting started with AAT
- 26 Finding an AAT training provider
- 48 Distance learning and other ways to study AAT
- 25 Apprenticeships
- 65 AAT membership