Help! Investigations team recommendation.

kristina1980

I would be grateful for any help.
My full membership request was refured to the investigations team as I entered into an agreement with my creditors through no fault of my own.
the outcome is the investigation is that i should be reprimanded! However, Im hesitant to agree to this as I dont know what it entails. Also will it stop me from getting full membership? Im also due to take my business taxation resit on the 30th!
any advice would be greatfully recieved as I am losing my mind over this!

Newbie

Hi

I would try not to worry reprimant is better than expelled, I cant say I know what it means either but perhaps you could let me know when you find out, how did it come about?

payrollpro

Kristina,

I think you need to separate the two issues and apply the most appropriate effort to the most important one first. Being reprimanded should not affect your membership and I feel you ought to look at the facts and if the AAT's approach is appropriate in your mind, put your hands up, admit it and accept the punishment like a man (in other words cry like a baby and go to the pub for lots of beer). No seriously, if the decision is made take it on the chin and move on.

You ought to concentrate on the resit and let the investigations team finish their work.

Good luck in the resits.

Payrollpro

Monsoon

I think reprimands get published in the AAT magazine (I saw some last issue). If it's any consolation, there are 'reprimands' and 'serious reprimands'. I think it's only a minor mark. And the only reason I read that section was because I was really bored! I doubt many people look at it.

Before you agree to it, you should ask them to explain what it means, you can't agree to something if you don't know what you're agreeing to!

Agree with PayrollPro, don't get too upset over it, it shouldn't affect your membership, find out what it means and then move on.

kristina1980

Thanks for the kind words guys.
AAT have come back to me and it is basically a written warning. It will not effect me doing a re-sit and wont stop me from applying for full membership. All in all its seems like the best outcome I could have asked for. they are now refuring me back to the membership department for the membership assesser to look at.

I only entered into an agreement with my creditors as my partner and I's business went into voluntary liquidaton through no fault of own. this left us both unemployed. I have since only been able to obtain part time work. we decided that the best solution was to enter into an debt management plan with the credit consumer councelling service. I honestly didnt know I was supposed to inform AAT of this and speaking to alot of my friends whom are AAT members, they didnt know ethier. makes me wonder how many people are getting away with it.
The way it come about is that when you apply for full membership you are asked it you have ever entered into an agreement with your creditors, I ticked yes and therefore ot was refered for investigation.


thank god, I can get on with my life now!

coojee

kristina1980 wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words guys.
AAT have come back to me and it is basically a written warning. It will not effect me doing a re-sit and wont stop me from applying for full membership. All in all its seems like the best outcome I could have asked for. they are now refuring me back to the membership department for the membership assesser to look at.

I only entered into an agreement with my creditors as my partner and I's business went into voluntary liquidaton through no fault of own. this left us both unemployed. I have since only been able to obtain part time work. we decided that the best solution was to enter into an debt management plan with the credit consumer councelling service. I honestly didnt know I was supposed to inform AAT of this and speaking to alot of my friends whom are AAT members, they didnt know ethier. makes me wonder how many people are getting away with it.
The way it come about is that when you apply for full membership you are asked it you have ever entered into an agreement with your creditors, I ticked yes and therefore ot was refered for investigation.


thank god, I can get on with my life now!

This issue seems to keep cropping up again and again so I can't see why people aren't aware of it. It would seem logical to me that someone who wants to be an accountant should be able to manage their own finances. If you've been declared bankrupt or entered into a voluntary agreement for whatever reason then it's obvious to me that it's something that the AAT should be made aware of when deciding whether to grant you membership.

anniem

Coojee, in many respects I agree with what you're saying but in some cases it isn't always the person who ends up with the problem that caused the problem in the first place which looks like the situation Kristina found herself in.

I also think that having ended up in that position you probably actually learn a huge amount from it and can help people from your own experience, perhaps with it even being a 'trigger point' for accountancy training!

Good luck Kristina!!!!!

Monsoon

coojee wrote: »

This issue seems to keep cropping up again and again so I can't see why people aren't aware of it. It would seem logical to me that someone who wants to be an accountant should be able to manage their own finances. If you've been declared bankrupt or entered into a voluntary agreement for whatever reason then it's obvious to me that it's something that the AAT should be made aware of when deciding whether to grant you membership.

anniem wrote: »

Coojee, in many respects I agree with what you're saying but in some cases it isn't always the person who ends up with the problem that caused the problem in the first place which looks like the situation Kristina found herself in.

I also think that having ended up in that position you probably actually learn a huge amount from it and can help people from your own experience, perhaps with it even being a 'trigger point' for accountancy training!

Good luck Kristina!!!!!

I agree with Annie here. I'd also add that actually I don't think it's always logical that something like this needs declaring. I realise there are many facets to accountancy, but as an example, the way you handle your personal finances has little to do with your ability to bookkeep, produce an ETB and final accounts and complete a tax return.

I do of course realise why the AAT want to know about arrangements with creditors and why they consider it is important. I just don't think it's as obvious to all people as some people think (I hope that makes sense!!).

A-Vic

agreed even at college many students didnt know about MAAT status full stop

Monsoon

A-Vic wrote: »

agreed even at college many students didnt know about MAAT status full stop

I know! I did think it was weird that when I'd completed my college course I got a pack saying "Don't stop there, why not go for full membership?!" I was thinking... isn't that the whole reason I took the qualification in the first place? :confused1:

blobbyh

Monsoon wrote: »

I agree with Annie here. I'd also add that actually I don't think it's always logical that something like this needs declaring. I realise there are many facets to accountancy, but as an example, the way you handle your personal finances has little to do with your ability to bookkeep, produce an ETB and final accounts and complete a tax return.

I agree with Coojee. Not being able to manage your own finances doesn't necessarily reflect on your ability to manage someone else's, however it does come down to a question of trust. Speaking outside the OP and the often understandable circumstances leading it up to these situations - I've been close to similar myself - but in wider terms, would clients be happy paying someone for a service that they can't visibly perform properly for themselves? These are their own livelihoods on the line and trust in these situations would not be inconsiderable. Just as you need to have full trust in the mechanic doing the brakes on your car, you should have equal trust in the proxy person handling your own income and effectively your lifestyle.

We often say the same about politicians. Why should their disastrous private lives imply they can't properly carry out their duties in public servitude? Maybe it shouldn't, but if they can't run their own lives properly and sometimes lie to those closest to them, how are we to trust them to do the right thing for the general public?

Monsoon

Robert I agree. As I said, I understand the reasons.

My point was that for some students and members, I can well understand how it might not be obvious or logcial. If someone is a student and isn't working in accounts, or if someone is a bookkeeper simply processing historical information and not giving any advice - their personal finances may seem totally unrelated. Coojee said it should be obvious, I'm simply saying that it really isn't always obvious to those who aren't working in areas that touch on making sure creditors are paid. When I was a bookkeeper I was never responsible for cashflow or paying creditors, simply recording historical data. Its still a position of trust but a very different type of trust to that which relates to creditors etc. When you're a student it can be hard to see the bigger picture. Some AAT students don't even know they are studying to be accountants (!) and if that's not obvious then disclosing agreements with creditors definitely isn't in some cases.

I reiterate: I know full well why these disclosures are needed and agree with it. It just isn't logical to some people - to my mind, for very understandable reasons.

blobbyh

I guess - for once - (I'm not counting!) we have to kinda agree to disagree, Jenni. It also seems quite obvious to me that personal financial responsibility goes inextricably hand in hand with what you're going to be learning once you start down the AAT route. This is an intelligent course for intelligent people and some of the time, people are gonna have to think for themselves rather than have everything spelled out for them. Everyone knows you can't be a lawyer if you've got certain criminal convictions - we don't need to be told that, it's just obvious. You just become an MP instead. ;-)

I'm also pretty sure that right back at the very beginning of my own Foundation course in September 2004, I signed an official AAT document stating certain declarations like this.

Of course, circumstances can change throughout our lives, some we can control, others we can't and I accept that a 'spent' pre-existing creditor agreement could be seen as unfair, especially if it was years earlier. However, to be so explicitly involved in what might be a fairly recent creditor arrangement, rather than the bookkeeper example you gave where someone is arguably more of an employee than a 'co-conspirator' or executive business owner, should quite rightly make the regulating body think twice (I know you're not disagreeing with this point).

Monsoon

Sort of agree to disagree then

I know it probably should be obvious, my point is that not everyone thinks in the same way.

Going off on a tangent now, I looked up the rules on the AAT website. Interestingly enough, the rules only relate to the individual members. So if a member was the sole director and shareholder of a Ltd Co providing accountancy services and it went into a creditor agreement or simply a time to pay agreement with HMRC, technically this doesn't need to be disclosed! I would think that this was more important to disclose than a sticky situation over, say, personal credit cards. Not that I have an accountant but if I did, if his business couldn't pay its tax on time, I'd be more concerned about that than whatever he did at home.

Like I said, tangent.

kristina1980

Thanks for the kind words people. It is not only me that was unaware that I had to declare this arrangement , I have other friends that were unaware of this too. Im sure that im not the only one who has had to do this and i am sure that there are other people who have not declared it and should have done. I find this very unfair as I have been punished but im sure that there are others that havent.
to those of you that have been judgemental, i hope that you are never placed in the situation where your livelyhood is stipped from under your feet. I have worked hard to gain my qualifcation and it was never my intention to mislead anyone!