ACCA - allowable expense?
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kellyp
Registered Posts: 44 Regular contributor ⭐
Hi
I have recently become a self employed MIP and am also studying ACCA to gain further knowledge. Is this an allowable expense for tax purposes??
Thanks
Kel
I have recently become a self employed MIP and am also studying ACCA to gain further knowledge. Is this an allowable expense for tax purposes??
Thanks
Kel
0
Comments
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I'm pretty sure under ACCA guidelines that you can't be self-employed and study ACCA..
Perhaps someone else will confirm.0 -
It is possible although I will need to work for someone aswell later down the line to get the 3 years worth of practical experience.0
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I was in a similar situation to you, I was studying ACCA but decided that my personal circumstances were better suited to me being an MIP than employed. I didn't realise until starting to work self employed that under no circumstances would the ACCA allow me to continue studying with them while an MIP.
I've spoken to them several times as well as a number of people within the AAT and unfortunately there is nothing I could do so I have had to resign from my membership.
I've copied the relevent passage in their rules and regulations for you to look at
(2) Permitted activities of ACCA students
(a) ACCA students of the Association may not claim to be members of the Association, nor may they be, or hold themselves out to be, in public practice, or a partner, director or controller of a firm or a member of a limited liability partnership which carries on public practice. ACCA students are, however, permitted to provide basic bookkeeping services for reward, either directly to the public or for an accountant, provided that they do not refer to their studentship or potential membership of the Association. Such service may be provided by the ACCA student acting in a self-employed capacity, or as an employee. Basic book-keeping services are defined as:
(i) The recording of basic accounting data up to and including the preparation of accounting records to trial balance stage
(aa) bank accounts
(bb) cash
(cc) sales ledger and purchase ledger
(ii) Payroll
(aa) wages
(bb) PAYE, National Insurance deductions
(iii) VAT or its equivalent.
(b) Any accountancy services, other than basic book-keeping services, can only be provided for reward by an ACCA student working for, and under the supervision of, a person who, in the opinion of Council, is suitably qualified and/or suitably experienced. The ACCA student may undertake such work either as an employee or as a self-employed person.0 -
Thank you for that information.
I have only got the items that you have listed on my AAT license (as well as income tax) and I do not refer to the ACCA at all whilst working as self employed.
Do you think that it is ok under my circumstances?
I think I will also contact the ACCA for clarification on this as I do not want to continue with my studies if I cannot continue being a MIP.0 -
No you are not allowed to put yourself out in practice, even if you were qualified you could only do bookkeeping without an ACCA practice certificate0
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Thank you for that information.
I have only got the items that you have listed on my AAT license (as well as income tax) and I do not refer to the ACCA at all whilst working as self employed.
Do you think that it is ok under my circumstances?
I think I will also contact the ACCA for clarification on this as I do not want to continue with my studies if I cannot continue being a MIP.
You can't do income tax as a student ACCA regardless of your AAT licence. If you want to carry on doing income tax then you need to resign from ACCA. If you want to carry on doing ACCA then you need to stop doing income tax. The problem then will be once you qualifiy as an ACCA, you will still only be able to do basic book keeping and no tax work unless you get an ACCA practicing certificate and you can't get one of these unless you've worked at a regsitered practice for 2 (or is it 3?) years.0 -
...ACCA practicing certificate and you can't get one of these unless you've worked at a regsitered practice for 2 (or is it 3?) years.
Hi
Its 3 years, but at least 2 of those 3 must be completed after gaining ACCA membership. It doesn't have to be a practice, it can an approved employer in industry/commerce also unless you want the practice certificate with audit qualification.
Neil0 -
I offset my AAT membership fees via my tax code allowance. I don't think you can claim for student fees though, just qualified? Hope I am wrong as I could then claim CIMA...0
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Thank you for that information.
I have only got the items that you have listed on my AAT license (as well as income tax) and I do not refer to the ACCA at all whilst working as self employed.
Do you think that it is ok under my circumstances?
I think I will also contact the ACCA for clarification on this as I do not want to continue with my studies if I cannot continue being a MIP.
I think you're definitely right to look into it and speak to ACCA, it really isn't worth the disciplinary action. I was in exact same position as you and unfortunately had to make a decision as to remain studying ACCA or setting up as MIP. I'd invested a lot of money and time into my studies but, although I lose the membership and hope of becoming Chartered, I do still retain the knowledge I gained. The simple fact for me was that, with 2 small children at home my circumstances certainly favour being an MIP as I can build my business and be here for my children. I would be unable to work full time until children are older therefore gaining a practicing certificate by working in practice for 3 years would be impossible for some time.
I really do feel now that I made the right decision but all our circumstances are different and it does depend on that as well as where you see yourself in the future.
Let us know how you get on0 -
I offset my AAT membership fees via my tax code allowance. I don't think you can claim for student fees though, just qualified? Hope I am wrong as I could then claim CIMA...
My boss pays my AAT but I pay my ACCA so I have always claimed subscriptions, student and membership of ACCA via my tax code and they have never disallowed it, I even had to send proof of payment once.
The year I got my membership I had to pay a progression to membership fee and they didn't allow that but the subscription has always been added to my code0 -
This has always struck me as a crazy/unfair rule.
Lets consider the following:
An unemployed ACCA member sends out a speculative CV to various employers looking for work. One responds and invites the member for an interview. It is only a small company so there is no requirement for a statutory audit and the company's accountants are charging large fees for the accounts prep and tax compliance. The MD believes he can save some money by having these prepared 'in house' and he could also do with some monthly management accounts as well as giving the inhouse bookkeeper some support and guidance. At the interview our ACCA member says he has plenty of experience in these areas and will be happy to undertake the work.
The discussion then moves to hours of work etc. MD believes there is no need for a full time accountant in the company, but instead would prefer to have our ACCA member work a couple of days a month to prepare the management accounts and longer periods around year end time and other busy periods of the year. As the hours worked are likely to fluctuate significantly each month, the MD suggests it may be easier for both parties if ACCA member acts as a self employed accountant, rather than go on the payroll. ACCA member was looking to become an employee when he undertook the mailshot but on reflection this may prove to be quite a good earner if he can find a few more companies in a similar situation.
He comes home and checks the ACCA rulebook. If he was employed by the company then there is no problem, but now he is going to be self employed. Oh dear.
An ICAEW member in the same would have no problems providing they has been a memeber for two years. All they have to do to obtain a practising cert is complete a three page application form and send a cheque.
Am I missing something or is it really as crazy as this example suggests?0 -
Hi,
I have gone through the whole process of getting an ACCA practising certificate & audit qualification and, yes, it is a very, very strict process!
The ACCA are completely straight to the point on this issue: you cannot, under any circumstances, operate on a self-employed basis if you have not got a practising certificate issued by them, regardless of other qualifications. They would rather see you resign your membership than practise without a PC - that's how strict they are on the issue!
The rules are more relaxed for ICAEW because you have to have a training contract with them during studies, whereas ACCA you don't (that's where the main difference is between ICAEW and ACCAs practising rules).
Kind regards
Steve0 -
Hi.
It almost makes it look like ACCA are undermining their own qualification.
Neil0 -
Hi.
It almost makes it look like ACCA are undermining their own qualification.
Neil
My thoughts exactly. I spent the whole time whilst I was training as ACCA being undermined by the ACA students and then had the kick in the teeth to find that they could just ask for a practising certificate after qualification and I couldn't. Beggar all this training contract rubbish, I trained alongside ACA students so had exactly the same training as them. I was in an ACCA approved practice as well so they could have had all the evidence they needed that I was fit for purpose but no. I don't know if things have changed now but back when I qualified ACCA's not only had to fill in 3 years experience records (literally noting every minute of every day spent on planning an audit, doing substantive tests, reviewing files, preparing accounts, etc etc) but we also had to sit another exam. Talk about overkill.
Like you say Neil, by making ACCA's jump through extra hoops it's as if they're admitting that ACCA isn't as good as ACA which is the very prejudice we've been fighting against.
I do sometimes wonder why I keep up my ACCA membership, I think it's just a pride thing that having worked so hard to get it I'm reluctant to let it go even though it's useless to me.0 -
Surely ACCA are then making it a 'better' qualification in the sense that not anyone can practice under ACCA and put the ACCA's name down?0
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You still have to document your post-qualified experience in order to gain the practising certification (and, where applicable the audit qualification). However, they have done away with the Audit Orientation Course now as the Professional Oversights Board consider the final level P7 'Advanced Audit and Assurance' paper adequately covers the requirements for an audit qualification in the UK. However, if you want to have the audit qualification as well as the practising certificate but did not take P7 as an optional paper or the old paper 3.1 equivalent, you have to sit the P7 examination.
Regards
Steve0 -
Steve Collings wrote: »You still have to document your post-qualified experience in order to gain the practising certification (and, where applicable the audit qualification). However, they have done away with the Audit Orientation Course now as the Professional Oversights Board consider the final level P7 'Advanced Audit and Assurance' paper adequately covers the requirements for an audit qualification in the UK. However, if you want to have the audit qualification as well as the practising certificate but did not take P7 as an optional paper or the old paper 3.1 equivalent, you have to sit the P7 examination.
Regards
Steve
Definately didn't do P7, no idea about 3.1. I doubt it as when I did my exams there were only 4 papers in the final level and no options. The options were in the 2nd level as I recall. It was many, many moons ago! I've been qualified for 18 years now.0 -
Bluewednesday wrote: »My boss pays my AAT but I pay my ACCA so I have always claimed subscriptions, student and membership of ACCA via my tax code and they have never disallowed it, I even had to send proof of payment once.
The year I got my membership I had to pay a progression to membership fee and they didn't allow that but the subscription has always been added to my code
Thanks - I will give them a call re' my CIMA subs. It all comes in handy in the current climate of cuts and inflation.0 -
I'm so glad that i'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.
I was thinking that maybe I could become a Ltd company then I would be an employee instead of self employed?
Saying that, it does seem like the ACCA are a bit mad so do I really want to continue with this??
Thanks so much for all the replies. Its really given me food for thought...
Kel0 -
I'm so glad that i'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.
I was thinking that maybe I could become a Ltd company then I would be an employee instead of self employed?
Saying that, it does seem like the ACCA are a bit mad so do I really want to continue with this??
Thanks so much for all the replies. Its really giving me food for thought...
Kel
Unfortunately the ACCA regs apply to members who are self employed or are a partner or director of a firm/limited company offering accounting services.
Neil0 -
I'm so glad that i'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.
I was thinking that maybe I could become a Ltd company then I would be an employee instead of self employed?
Saying that, it does seem like the ACCA are a bit mad so do I really want to continue with this??
Thanks so much for all the replies. Its really given me food for thought...
Kel
Hello Kelly
I have recently become a member in practice like yourself and like you, i am only offering basic bookkeeping, which is what i applied for on my aat practicing licence.
I have also recently applied to acca for exemptions and was hoping to sit my first exam in june this year but i have yet to hear from them.
If what is being said is true and you cant work on a self employed basis then does anyone know if the same applies for the other professional bodies and which can you study via distance learning or do you need a training provider.
Also do you know if i am entitled to my £69 registration fee back from acca if they will not let me practice.
Seems funny acca is the only professional accounting body which is not a sponsor of the aat!
Keep us informed Kelly.
Regards Stuart0 -
The reason ACCA is not a sponsor of AAT is that the ACCA run their own Techinician style course, CAT - Certified Accounting Technician, so they have to support that.0
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shooter7shooter wrote: »...does anyone know if the same applies for the other professional bodies and which can you study via distance learning or do you need a training provider
I looked at being self employed whilst studying CIMA and contacted them. I was tolde it was permisable providing I didnt refer to my CIMA status, only under took work I was competant for etc.
Neil0 -
shooter7shooter wrote: »Hello Kelly
I have recently become a member in practice like yourself and like you, i am only offering basic bookkeeping, which is what i applied for on my aat practicing licence.
I have also recently applied to acca for exemptions and was hoping to sit my first exam in june this year but i have yet to hear from them.
If what is being said is true and you cant work on a self employed basis then does anyone know if the same applies for the other professional bodies and which can you study via distance learning or do you need a training provider.
Also do you know if i am entitled to my £69 registration fee back from acca if they will not let me practice.
Seems funny acca is the only professional accounting body which is not a sponsor of the aat!
Keep us informed Kelly.
Regards Stuart
Hi Stuart,
It seems the basic problem with offering bookkeeping services if you are an ACCA student is the AAT requirement that we have MIP if we are offering piblic services, i.e. we are in practice. It is allowed by the ACCA to offer the services they state BUT NOT to hold yourself out to be in public practice! Therefore as an AAT member we get caught by conflicting sets of rules!!From the ACCA regulations for students:
(2) Permitted activities of ACCA students
(a) ACCA students of the Association may not claim to be members of the Association,
nor may they be, or hold themselves out to be, in public practice, or a partner,
director or controller of a firm or a member of a limited liability partnership which
carries on public practice. ACCA students are, however, permitted to provide basic
book-keeping services for reward, either directly to the public or for an accountant,
provided that they do not refer to their studentship or potential membership of the
Association. Such service may be provided by the ACCA student acting in a selfemployed
capacity, or as an employee.
Seems there is no way round this!0 -
I've just been investigating some more and have discovered that:Book-keeping services, as defined in paragraphs 8(2)(a)(i) to 8(2)(a)(iii) of the Membership Regulations 1996, do not constitute public practice.
That would beThe recording of basic accounting data up to and including the preparation of
accounting records to trial balance stage
Payroll
VAT or its equivalent
Does that mean then that ACCA and AAT have a different interpritation of public practice and does it mean you CAN be and MIP and ACCA student??0 -
I think so, the main problem with the op was because they were offering income tax which is not allowed by ACCA0
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Best to phone/e-mail ACCA than speculate.
I have the head of ACCA's e-mail addresss if you want.0 -
I'm beginning to wonder if it is worth bothering with acca. Can anyone tell me what you can do with the acca qualification that you can't with the aat, apart from auditing which i'm told is boring anyway.
is it a prestige thing
Regards Stuart0 -
It's about name i think
It is about name I think
ACCA- Association of Chartered Certified Accountants
AAT- Association of Accounting Technicians
I don't think as an accountant somebody likes the word Technitians
One is Chartered Certified and the other one is Technitians... that's all
Ta0 -
I wrote to the ACCA weeks ago about this and still no response yet..... I'm seriously losing faith in them!0
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