AAT and registered auditors

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cornflower
cornflower Registered Posts: 129 Dedicated contributor 🦉
Does anyone know why a MAAT or FMAAT cannot sign auditors reports? My father is also a FMAAT and has to turn down opportunities which stipulate registered auditors or CCAB accountants only. Seems strange when AAT has an audit sim as well.

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  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    You've said it yourself - CCAB members only. Essentially, the EU has delegated the requirements of being an audior to member states. UK law then consulted with IASB and thus eventually laid the reqirement down in statute.

    Frankly I think it's the sound thing to do in principle. The idea is that the level of competence of CCAB members is greater then that of non-CCAB members.

    In practise however....
  • cornflower
    cornflower Registered Posts: 129 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    My boss is also a MAAT and she says the same about our chartered auditors! I'm studying for ACCA in September which my AAT boss was not happy about saying it will limit me but how I don't know. The girl who I get on really well with at our auditors passed her ACCA about 3 years ago and is now a partner. She says she wouldn't have got there just with AAT which I also find odd because you still have to work hard to get AAT. To me all the bodies should have similar standing.
  • RAS
    RAS Registered Posts: 124 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Whilst AAT is a very good qualification in its own right, everyone must realise the ACCA qualification is at a much more advanced level. Its like saying "O" levels are the same as "A" levels.
  • NeilH
    NeilH Registered Posts: 553 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Hi

    Following on from "RAS", the ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW etc qualifications are much more advanced both in terms of the content/exams and the quantity and level of the work experience required. In particular, the audit content is much more advanced than that covered by AAT and you would need to gain audit experience after completing the ACCA or ICAEW qualification before you could become an auditor under the relevant body.

    I'm not sure why your boss thinks ACCA will limit you (presumably over AAT)...?

    Neil
  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    ACCA will limit you?????

    Sour grapes methinks.

    I'm half way through ACCA myself and can testify that it is much more advanced - and that is before I have even sat the advanced papers!

    What I would say however is that I have met many AAT qualified members in practise who are much more knowledgeable and technically competent then ACCA / CIMA qualified members (through their experience).

    The qualification does not maketh the accountant basically.
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon Registered Posts: 4,071 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    stefanboro wrote: »

    The qualification does not maketh the accountant basically.

    Absolutely.

    I didn't sit the Audit module of AAT, opting for double tax instead.

    However, my experience of AAT Tax is that it is a great comprehensive grounding in the core basics only. There is an awful lot that AAT doesn't teach you.

    Based on that, I would expect the AAT Audit module to be the same: core principles, without going into the full depth required.

    Given the weight of responsibility based on auditors and the sums involved, it's never crossed my mind that AAT ought to be allowed to audit - I'd actually be concerned if they were.

    <tongue in cheek>Anyway, the Chartereds need something they can do that we can't to distinguish themselves! ;) </tongue in cheek>
  • stefanboro
    stefanboro Registered Posts: 187 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    @monsoon haha yep - and it is a truth universally acknowledged that everyone loves an auditor.
  • NeilH
    NeilH Registered Posts: 553 Epic contributor 🐘
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    Hi

    I took the audit option (I didnt work in audit then, never have and probably never will) and found it was more about checking procedures and controls and drafting working papers, as opposed to actually running an audit assignment and producing a conclusion.

    Neil
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    I seem to remember that all the sims I practiced on (and the one I sat), had at least one question on the conclusion, but I agree that the focus was on the checking and drafting of working papers, rather than running an audit.

    I really don't think that the audit sim from the AAT would be enough to actually do an audit properly and become an auditor. Yes, it's a basis and yes you might know how to perform a simple one, but that's about it. There is such a huge scope of rules and possible issues you would need to be aware of and that's just not covered.

    Then again, I don't work in it either, and most likely never will, but seeing on how busy our auditors at work always are and the questions they ask, just gives me the feeling I still know nothing about actual auditing.
  • Gem7321
    Gem7321 Registered Posts: 1,438 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Rinske wrote: »
    I really don't think that the audit sim from the AAT would be enough to actually do an audit properly and become an auditor. Yes, it's a basis and yes you might know how to perform a simple one, but that's about it. There is such a huge scope of rules and possible issues you would need to be aware of and that's just not covered.

    Exactly.

    Would you let a surgeon perform an operation on you after sitting one simulation? The basic answer is we're not qualified to perform audits. We know the basics so that we can recognise when a company will need an audit and how to prepare an audited set of accounts, but we're not auditors.
  • Dcollins
    Dcollins Registered Posts: 179 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    I don't know why anyone would want to audit. The red tape and CPD requirements seem horrendous, and it doesn't seem like the most interesting job. Just my opinion, and I mean no disrespect to any auditors.

    Auditing is regulated by law, unlike provision of general accountancy, and AAT just doesn't qualify people under the EU Statutory Audit Directive. ACCA also have more than one kind of practising cert. one for general work, and another for audit, so even some ACCA practitioners wouldn't audit.

    Someone once told me that AAT is the equivalent of high-grade A-level, and ACCA is equivalent to a masters degree. Having done both, I can see what they meant. I expected to come out of ACCA feeling confident and qualified. What I actually learned is that even ACCA skims the surface of some subjects, and there's an awful lot more to learn than any qualification can give you.

    Success is what you make it, regardless of qualification, social status, gender or anything else.
  • Bluewednesday
    Bluewednesday Registered Posts: 1,624 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Dcollins wrote: »
    I expected to come out of ACCA feeling confident and qualified. What I actually learned is that even ACCA skims the surface of some subjects, and there's an awful lot more to learn than any qualification can give you.

    I felt exactly the same, thought when I qualified I would know everything, then when I actually did qualify I realised how little I know.

    It doesn't help that accountancy is such a broad subject and what is second nature for a management accountant I couldn't even begin to touch, yet we are potentially qualified with the same qualfication!
  • cornflower
    cornflower Registered Posts: 129 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Thanks everyone for your opinions :)
    My boss has always had the opinion that chartered accountants with ACCA and ICAEW are snobs and think they're better than AAT accountants. That's really obvious when our auditors come to visit us.
    My finance director offered to pay for my ACCA as it's something I really want to do as I think having both AAT and aCCA will open lots of doors for me. My boss said "you're wasting your time and doubling up the workload". Encouraging or what!
  • Rinske
    Rinske Registered Posts: 2,453 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Not very encouraging, but a good reason to show him/ her different. I do think ACCA will open more doors then just AAT and I do think you would do well to take the opportunity if your finance director is supporting you.

    Do try and get some offer for the work experience requirements as well, as that is something that may seem obvious to you, but if your boss doesn't support you, you might want to arrange that with your finance director. (Assuming your boss is manager and reporting to the finance director.)
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    Gem7321 wrote: »
    Would you let a surgeon perform an operation on you after sitting one simulation?

    Yawn... This example always comes up in the qualified vs non-qualified debate. When will people realise ticking up bank statements just aint brain surgery?!!

    For what it's worth, the chartered exams don't prepare you any better than AAT for running an audit assignment. Like most aspects of our job it's all down to.. experience, experience experience!!
  • cornflower
    cornflower Registered Posts: 129 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    Dean your opinion is interesting because that's what I thought up until yesterday when I looked at the ACCA past papers. They are nothing like AAT sims and no disrespect to AAT but they look completely different. The final level one looks horrendous but i know I'll need to do that at some point in the future.

    Our auditors are really friendly and she even let me look at some of her file the last time she was here and I also thought they just tick up bank statements and photocopy invoices but it looks more than that.

    I think I'm happy that I need ACCA rather than just AAT regardless of what my narrow minded boss thinks.
  • Steve Collings
    Steve Collings Registered Posts: 997 Epic contributor 🐘
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    cornflower wrote: »
    Our auditors are really friendly and she even let me look at some of her file the last time she was here and I also thought they just tick up bank statements and photocopy invoices but it looks more than that.

    Your auditor should be very careful about allowing access to audit files! If the engagement partner has not given authority to let you see the file your auditor friend is risking disciplinary action! In some places it's a sackable offence!

    Kind regards
    Steve
  • wildgoose1uk
    wildgoose1uk Registered Posts: 200 Dedicated contributor 🦉
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    It's a strange thing for any Accountant to say. I agree that some from the chartered bodies have a certain snobbiness about them but there are also many others who do not.

    If you want to see just how much ACCA qualification will limit you then go onto Reeds or Page's website and see how many of the vacancies for accountants insist in chartered or CCAB.

    Also compare the salaries with p/q or QBE.

    I would let your boss be though. He had obviously had an encounter in the past which has influenced him.
  • deanshepherd
    deanshepherd Registered Posts: 1,809 Beyond epic contributor 🧙‍♂️
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    cornflower wrote: »
    ..I also thought they just tick up bank statements and photocopy invoices but it looks more than that.

    Ah.. a good auditor always makes an audit look more important than just ticking and bashing..


    ..you know I'm not being serious, right?
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