AAT sufficient?
Comments
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Other factors that I see as being against ACA qualification in my special little pot of circumstances are that I passed some of the Professional Stage exams a VERY long time ago. For example, I passed Audit in 2004 and tax in 2005 and I've had no formal training in between times, so picking up the studies in 2012 and sitting Advanced Tax and Audit exams seems unrealistic.
This I can understand but it shouldn't be a factor. This is essentially why the IPD is in place - the "next" stage is then CPD. So providing you are keeping up with current affairs (as much as you can whilst studying!!) then it should be just a case of learning new rates and allowances etc.
Have you read study resources section of the website? This may help you a great deal and put it more in context.
Regards
Dean0 -
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So providing you are keeping up with current affairs (as much as you can whilst studying!!) then it should be just a case of learning new rates and allowances etc.
Threadjack - sorry. I'm hoping to move towards my chartered quals toward the end of 2012. I read PQ and do my best with Accountancy Age (feel a bit like I am a kid reading my dad's paper though
) are there any resources you would especially reccommend as being "easy to digest ? 0 -
Threadjack - sorry. I'm hoping to move towards my chartered quals toward the end of 2012. I read PQ and do my best with Accountancy Age (feel a bit like I am a kid reading my dad's paper though) are there any resources you would especially reccommend as being "easy to digest ?
I try to make best of my subscriptions - afterall that's what I pay them for! Being an FMAAT ATT has it's perks as far as bumf goes not forgetting my ACA student membership! Journals at my disposal are:
AAT - Accounting Technician
ATT - Tax Advisor
ICAEW - Accountancy now being replaced with "Economia"
Countless amounts of info from CPD interactive and the branch meetings plus CPD courses offered by ATT and ICAEW.
Once I get bored with that I'm on the HMRC website and a bit of a nosey at the 'forums' being this and others.
Regards
Dean
ps who said accountants were dull - pffffttt!0 -
Hi Mike
I think you need to look into the Practising Certificate rules of the ICAEW. Even though you could be a AAT MIP, if you are providing accountancy services to the public, you need to have an ICAEW practicing certificate. I am not 100% on the situation of a trainee, but once you have ACA you would not be able to practice without an ICAEW PC, which you would not be able to obtain until two after years of qualifying.
From the ICAEW:
"If your activities fall within the definition of engaging in public practice, you will need an ICAEW practising certificate. This applies irrespective of whether you hold a practising certificate with another body, intend to use the firm description “chartered accountant” or intend to use the ICAEW logo."
Therefore, even if you set up practice before qualifying, once you have ACA you would either have to give up the practice for two years, or give up ACA.
I would have set up my practice long ago with AAT MIP if this would have satisfied the ICAEW. However, I could not do this without breaking ICAEW rules, so I had to wait until I could get their PC before setting up my practice.0 -
"intend to use the firm description “chartered accountant” or intend to use the ICAEW logo."
You can still practice under an AAT MiP licence but you must not market yourself as a "chartered accountant" or use the ICAEW logo until you fulfil the ICAEW critiera for a practicing certificate. Once fulfilled you can then practice as a chartered accountant.
Regards
Dean0 -
"If your activities fall within the definition of engaging in public practice, you will need an ICAEW practising certificate. This applies irrespective of whether you hold a practising certificate with another body, intend to use the firm description “chartered accountant” or intend to use the ICAEW logo."
You need to read the paragraph as a whole. Even if you do not intend to refer to yourself as a Chartered Accountant, as an ACA member you would still need a PC, which you could not obtain until two years after qualifying.0 -
I appreciate what the paragraph says as a whole but there has been an amendment in the handbook that allows student members to practice with express permission from there employer/QPRT. I fall within this exact case. I even have it authorised by the institue themselves in writing.
It would now seem that the above paragraph would need updating. It's a bit contradictory otherwise wouldn't you say?
Regards
Dean0 -
I appreciate what the paragraph says as a whole but there has been an amendment in the handbook that allows student members to practice with express permission from there employer/QPRT. I fall within this exact case. I even have it authorised by the institue themselves in writing.
It would now seem that the above paragraph would need updating. It's a bit contradictory otherwise wouldn't you say?
Regards
Dean
Interesting Dean, I've been reading this thread and the ICAEW website and the rules for students do now seem to be at odds with those for NQ up to 2 years! How can it be allowed to practice as a student but not once qualified for 2 years? Have you been given advice on how this will work form ICAEW? Are you employed as well as being in practice? Just wondering how it works for you?
Thanks! Gin0 -
Hi Dean
I have found the rules about being in practice whilst still a student (http://www.icaew.com/en/members/regulations-standards-and-guidance/qualifications/aca-student-regulations) [paragraph 18].
However, as stated by GinnyBee, what will happen when you qualify as ACA?
As far as I can see, and everything I have been told in the past by the ICAEW, once you are ACA, you cannot practice without a PC, and you cannot obtain this for at least two year once qualified.
Therefore, as far as I can see, you can run a practice up until you are qualified, but you cannot for at least two years once you are admitted to membership.0 -
Hi Dean
I have found the rules about being in practice whilst still a student (http://www.icaew.com/en/members/regulations-standards-and-guidance/qualifications/aca-student-regulations) [paragraph 18].
However, as stated by GinnyBee, what will happen when you qualify as ACA?
As far as I can see, and everything I have been told in the past by the ICAEW, once you are ACA, you cannot practice without a PC, and you cannot obtain this for at least two year once qualified.
Therefore, as far as I can see, you can run a practice up until you are qualified, but you cannot for at least two years once you are admitted to membership.
This is the regulation I'm referring too. Again it has been re-written since I had clarification. It used to be s38 of the handbook if I recall.
I think it comes back to what I was referring to earlier in that you can continue to practice under the AAT banner without selling yourself as a chartered accountant and once you are eligible for a PC you can the practice as chartered.
Here are the guidelines on gaining a PC certificate:
http://www.icaew.com/en/members/regulations-standards-and-guidance/practice-management/practising-certificate-regulations
I agree you wouldn't get a PC until you have been a member for two years but it isn't saying you cannot carry out practicing work indefinite.
Regards
Dean0 -
Interesting. What this means is that ICAEW are now making themselves more attrative to AAT MIPS (or want-to-be MIPS) than ACCA. Smart move.0
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Interesting. What this means is that ICAEW are now making themselves more attrative to AAT MIPS (or want-to-be MIPS) than ACCA. Smart move.
This is true. However, the problem is securing a training contract. If you can get a training contract, most employers don't want you to be self-employed! Rock and hard place?
Regards
Dean0 -
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I'm not fully aware of how it works, only that ACCA makes it nigh-on impossible!
Hi,
It's very difficult to get an ICAEW training contract and you get all the practical experience via the training contract, hence it may seem "easy" to get a PC with ICAEW at the end of the training, but on the flip side, it's extremely hard to get a training contract. With ACCA you don't need a training contract to do the studying, but the flip side of this is that you have to jump through hoops to get their PC at once qualified. It's swings and roundabouts with both bodies.
Regards
Steve0 -
Ahh... that makes sense.Steve Collings wrote: »Hi,
It's very difficult to get an ICAEW training contract and you get all the practical experience via the training contract, hence it may seem "easy" to get a PC with ICAEW at the end of the training, but on the flip side, it's extremely hard to get a training contract. With ACCA you don't need a training contract to do the studying, but the flip side of this is that you have to jump through hoops to get their PC at once qualified. It's swings and roundabouts with both bodies.
Regards
Steve
I love the AAT
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Steve?!
How the devil are you? It's been awhile...
Regards
Dean0 -
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I am becoming an expert hoop jumper in my quest to secure a training contract via a non graduate route.
I'm persistant though 0 -
Steve Collings wrote: »I'm very well thank you Dean. Hope all's OK with you.
Best wishes
Steve
I'm good thanks Steve. Back to the grind stone...
Regards
Dean0 -
Is camping outside the offices of top 50 firms considered being a pest >
Joking.
Nope, I just try and be as actively involved as I can in events that are open to CFAB students0 -
You would not need to 'give up' ACA you just wouldn't be able to advertise youself as an ACA, only as a MAAT. AAT allow you to be a MIP then thats it, however you can't associate your practice with the ACA unless you meet their criteria.0
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AAT is a very good qual. I completed AAT then ACCA and am now doing ATT possibly CTA in the future. From a studying point of view and employment recognition then ACA and ACCA are the standard especially in the accounting practices. I can say from personal experience that AAT was a walk in the park compared to ACCA, the sheer scope of ACCA was something else. Completing ACCA gaveme a very large pay rise and I am now recognised as an accountant.
However when it comes to AAT, it's not the qualification that is important it's the experience of the member. If someone have very little practice experience (or indeed none) then I would say this is dangerous starting on your own as you would be kind of learning everything as you go along with no mentor.
If you have the nescesary experience then you could by all means offer the same service as an ACCA or ACA. I think with small practices it is not an issue as long as you know what you are doing. For larger practices being 'Chartered' or 'Chartered Certified' Accountants is expected.
I think within the profession AAT members probably still have a long way to go to prove their salt to the Chartered brigade, because they are yet to reach the ultimate allocade (and the standard of the exams reflect this). AAT is a way to legitimately work for yourself in the accounting and tax field without as much blood, sweat and tears to get there, however for members who are already QBE it is a great opportunity.
The public on the other hand don't completely understand it all and many just want to be fully compliant, for the smaller business this is probably fine.0 -
AAT is a very good qual. I completed AAT then ACCA and am now doing ATT possibly CTA in the future. From a studying point of view and employment recognition then ACA and ACCA are the standard especially in the accounting practices. I can say from personal experience that AAT was a walk in the park compared to ACCA, the sheer scope of ACCA was something else. Completing ACCA gaveme a very large pay rise and I am now recognised as an accountant.
However when it comes to AAT, it's not the qualification that is important it's the experience of the member. If someone have very little practice experience (or indeed none) then I would say this is dangerous starting on your own as you would be kind of learning everything as you go along with no mentor.
If you have the nescesary experience then you could by all means offer the same service as an ACCA or ACA. I think with small practices it is not an issue as long as you know what you are doing. For larger practices being 'Chartered' or 'Chartered Certified' Accountants is expected.
I think within the profession AAT members probably still have a long way to go to prove their salt to the Chartered brigade, because they are yet tot reachhe ultimate allocade (and the standard of the exams reflect this). AAT is a way to legitimately work for yourself in the accounting and tax field without as much blood, sweat and tears to get there, however for members who are already QBE it is a great opportunity.
The public on the other hand don't completely understand it all and many just want to be fully compliant, for the smaller business this is probably fine.
Excellent post, +1 to this.0 -
Glad to have some input in the discussion
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Hello AAT members
I am AAT member and currently working as a Finance Assistant. I want to gain experience in bookkeeping, payroll, tax with any member in practice. can anybody help me please.
Sabbir0 -
And the award for the oldest thread resurrection of the year goes to..0
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deanshepherd wrote: »And the award for the oldest thread resurrection of the year goes to..
Hey, surely I get the award for starting the thread in the first place!?0
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