Self employed or volunteer

wildgoose1uk

I have a couple of prospective clients who are registered self employed:

1. They only have one client (a charity);
2. They do not get paid but can claim expenses;
3. They do not get holiday or sick pay (obviously!);
4. They are pretty much told when to turn up and what to do. Any flexability is limited;

My question is if they are really self employed or are they volunteers. The charity has a number of self employed staff who are all employed on the same basis.

What do people think? It is important to resolve because if they are classed as volunteers it could affect things like working tax credits. Is there a genuine basis for calling them self employed?

stefanboro

wildgoose1uk wrote: »

I have a couple of prospective clients who are registered self employed:

1. They only have one client (a charity);
2. They do not get paid but can claim expenses;
3. They do not get holiday or sick pay (obviously!);
4. They are pretty much told when to turn up and what to do. Any flexability is limited;

My question is if they are really self employed or are they volunteers. The charity has a number of self employed staff who are all employed on the same basis.

What do people think? It is important to resolve because if they are classed as volunteers it could affect things like working tax credits. Is there a genuine basis for calling them self employed?

There is, inherently, no profit motive and the terms and conditions of payment, how and where they do whatever it is that they do is dictated purely from the other side. There also appears to be no room for a substitute and I cannot see that there is any element of risk of capital or of time.

Therefore I cannot see ANY scope for self-employment here.

It's always a tricky area and it is not definitive. Here is a useful guide:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm

Monsoon

They very much sound like volunteers to me. There is no profit motive.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/workingtaxcredit/work.htm

This link clearly describes that, whether self employed or volunteer, they do not qualify for WTC:

If any of the following apply to you, the work won’t count for Working Tax Credit purposes:

you work for a charity or a voluntary organisation where you get no pay or you only get expenses

wildgoose1uk

That's what I was concerned about. I was just hoping I was missing something.

Pete12

Wildgoose,

I should be interested to know the outcome of this, particularly the answer, if you put the question to the HMRC.

Pete12

Monsoon

I don't see how there can be any doubt about it.

LynWest

I agree, definately a volunteer, but if you do get a different response from HMRC, then i would love to hear their reasoning behind it. Thanks :001_smile:

LynWest

Forgot to say a belated Congratulations to Monsoon on her engagement. Hope you will both be very happy xxx

wildgoose1uk

Pete

I think the above is fairly clear and fits in with my own view on it. I don't really feel the need to speak to HMRC on it.

Cheers

wg

Pete12

I think so too - but

was/would be interested to know what the prospective clients actually choose to do and how it impacts upon the involvement of the other "self-employeds" currently with the charity.

I appreciate that in giving the prospective clients the answer they don't want you may never hear from them again.

Pete12

deanshepherd

It does beg the question as to why they bothered registering as self-employed?