Is my certificate valid if I dont pay membership fee

asikoasiko Just JoinedRegistered Posts: 2
Hi all, wondering if someone can clarify the case.I have recently found out that non of mine work colleagues with AAT qualfications pay membership fee after they completed all exams/papers. My manager who is financial accountant (and has not got anything else except AAT) said she is not paying anything as she is not working in practice and doesnt bother about full member status. She stated as she passed all her exams her certificate is still valid without membership subscribtion.
Is that correct? Is that a pain to renew your membership if you will need it? At the moment I am waiting for the reslut of the last exam and not sure now if I need to apply for MAAT as cannot see any benifits of job promotion or pay rise lol
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Comments

  • Rozzi RainbowRozzi Rainbow Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 465
    Your certificates saying you have completed Level 3/4 etc will still be valid as no-one can take your qualification from you. If you apply for MAAT and receive the certificate saying you are now a full member, this will only be valid as long as you pay your annual subscriptions.

    Yes, renweing your membership each year can be costly, however you cannot use the letters MAAT after your name without it. Keeping your membership ongoing shows your CPD is up to date, as the qualification itself may soon become dated as rules change and new areas are introduced.
  • stevefstevef Well-Known CarmarthenRegistered Posts: 258
    AAT examinations are not freestanding academic qualifications in the same way as A levels or HND's or degrees, but are one the requirements (along with practical experience) to gain full membership to the Association. They show that at the time of the exam you had the required level of knowledge (but with the rapid developments in the profession that knowledge becomes fairly dated without CPD).

    To retain membership you have to comply with the Associations rules and regulations, meet the CPD requirements and pay the annual subscription. By not paying the subscription you cease to be a Member making the exam passes rather meaningless.
  • liveprincessliveprincess Well-Known Registered Posts: 214
    what is CPD?
  • MWAUGH1983MWAUGH1983 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 420
    I think this all depend on whether someone will go onto further study like acc, cima, icaew etc. If they do then thats a higher qualfiication so some may not bother with AAT membership. However, being a member wouldnt be a bad thing would it!?

    Martin
  • stevefstevef Well-Known CarmarthenRegistered Posts: 258
    CPD = continuing professional development.
    All the accounting bodies require its members to keep upto date by spending time developing or updating their knowledge/skill base. Each body has differing requirements but all require some form of verification process.
  • NewbieNewbie Well-Known Registered Posts: 229
    why would you not keep your membership there are so many benefits that the AAT has to offer, branch network, cpd, magazine, to work so hard and not pay the subs seems madness to me.
  • stevefstevef Well-Known CarmarthenRegistered Posts: 258
    I totally agree, madness to let your membership lapse after all that hard work.
  • janwaljanwal Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,189
    After all that study, what would be the point not to keep up the membership.
  • Jo ClarkJo Clark Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,526
    stevef wrote: »
    By not paying the subscription you cease to be a Member making the exam passes rather meaningless.

    Do you really mean this? Surely the qualification is worth something regardless of becoming a Member otherwise there would be no point studying it? Some students may be using AAT as a stepping stone to further qualifications.
    ~ An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest ~
    Benjamin Franklin
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,069
    Jo Clark wrote: »
    Do you really mean this? Surely the qualification is worth something regardless of becoming a Member otherwise there would be no point studying it? Some students may be using AAT as a stepping stone to further qualifications.

    If you're using it as a stepping stone, that's fine.

    If not - then yes, it makes the exam passes rather meaningless if you aren't going to keep membership - the point of passing the exams is to get membership, they have far less value on their own. Unless you're going on to ACCA etc, or decide to leave accountancy.
  • asikoasiko Just Joined Registered Posts: 2
    Monsoon wrote: »
    If you're using it as a stepping stone, that's fine.

    If not - then yes, it makes the exam passes rather meaningless if you aren't going to keep membership - the point of passing the exams is to get membership, they have far less value on their own. Unless you're going on to ACCA etc, or decide to leave accountancy.

    Hmm, I would think the main point is knowledge and you prove your competence in this knowledge passing your exams. And how is not paying a fee will take this knowledge from you?
    Londina
  • liveprincessliveprincess Well-Known Registered Posts: 214
    good point!
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,069
    asiko wrote: »
    Hmm, I would think the main point is knowledge and you prove your competence in this knowledge passing your exams. And how is not paying a fee will take this knowledge from you?
    True, and it depends what you want to do with your career, but being MAAT is far more than just a fee. It's a mark of achievement, a tangible, recognisable measure of your competence, that includes CPD - because the knowledge gained in the exams will become out-dated and so you need to keep up to date and keep your skills fresh. There are also various benefits you get with membership (e.g. reduced AA membership, and lots of stuff which I can't remember).
  • stevefstevef Well-Known CarmarthenRegistered Posts: 258
    In response to Jo Clark, yes I do believe that not becoming a member or allowing your membership to lapse does make passing the exams rather meaningless. You need to think what the exams are: they are to show that you have acquired the required level of knowledge to apply for membership of AAT at that time. There purpose is to allow you to join not provide a freestanding academic qualification. I passed my AAT (or TFA in those days) over 30 years ago and about the only thing that has stayed the same in syllabus is that debits go on the left and credits on the right in the prime records. So if I approached a prospective employer and said "I passed the AAT exams 30 years ago (or twenty or ten or even five", I would expect the response "So what!".

    But by saying I became an AAT member x years ago, and still am, I am saying that I have been keeping my skills upto date in whatever specialism I have chosen.

    There are comments that AAT can be used as a stepping stone to something else, therefore perhaps you do not need to retain membership, I can understand this view but do not agree with it. To put my comments in context I should point out that I am a subscription paying fellow member of both AAT and ACCA, also eventhough I am not a member of CIPFA I do sit on a number of their panels.

    All the Accounting bodies are professional associations which are run by its members on behalf of its members. In some ways they are exclusive clubs that you have to work really hard to get into. They look after their members by providing CPD opportunities and by maintaining their exclusivity by ensuring high standards of knowledge and professionalism both from members and students. Students are the future of both the profession generally and to the accounting bodies, Students require nuturing and susidising. It is the members which steer the bodies in the direction they are going and provide the main portion of the funds. If no one ever joined AAT, their would be no AAT.

    If you are not happy with any aspect of AAT, you need to become a member to use your influence to change the way AAT works, by exercising your vote and seeking election to the various panels. You can also use your membership to try to influence the profession as a whole and help develop accounting, auditing and ethical standards.

    I belong to both AAT and ACCA because I get different things from them, it gives me differing levels of influence and means I can better support students at any level.
    dumutroba
  • Jo ClarkJo Clark Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,526
    Thank you for your reply.
    ~ An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest ~
    Benjamin Franklin
  • dyziodyzio New Member Registered, MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 35
    Hi there,

    I wonder if you can help me...
    I became MAAT and MIP last year, and my subscriptions are due to be renewed. My situation has changed from last year and I can no longer afford to pay the fees (but I do earn more than £7,000 to apply for reduced fees). The total amount I will have to pay is just over £400 (£136 for MAAT membership, £193 for MIP and £80 for AML Supervision). I live in London, have two children and my husband does not work, so all money I earn must be enough for pay the rent and bills and so on. I provide bookkeeping services to two companies, and do little bits and pieces at home for friends and family, through my limited company. What will happen if I won't renew my subscription? Could I still privide services? I understand that I will not be able to use MAAT after my name, to be be honest, I have never used it anyway... Are there any problems I may face if I will not renew? Are there any legal issues I may face? Any answers will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    Agata
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 545
    stevef wrote: »
    AAT examinations are not freestanding academic qualifications in the same way as A levels or HND's or degrees...

    In fact they are. I currently work for an education establishment, the AAT levels are qualifications in their own right and registered with Ofqual – search at http://register.ofqual.gov.uk/Qualification . In fact, the terms “certificate” and “diploma” have nationally recognised definitions and the AAT refer to each level as a qualification

    The AAT went down a route of having recognised qualifications at each level with the introduction of NVQs then moved over to certificate/diploma when the qualifications framework went changed format. The NVQs weren’t even exclusive to AAT, other awarding bodies offered them too, and these could be used for AAT membership purposes. ACCA, CIMA and ICAEW are also not awarding certificates or diplomas for completion of levels of the qualification. These seem to be more as “stepping stones” but in some instances (particularly first level) they are being put forward as qualifications for accounting staff who have no formal qualifications – e.g. the ICAEW CFAB.

    There was a forum thread a while ago discussing what “AAT Qualified” meant – just completing the levels or having Membership. This was further confused by the AAT using the term “qualified” to refer to those who had completed the qualification levels but not yet joined the association.

    Neil
  • LondinaLondina Experienced Mentor MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 814
    dyzio said:

    The total amount I will have to pay is just over £400 (£136 for MAAT membership, £193 for MIP and £80 for AML Supervision).

    What will happen if I won't renew my subscription? Could I still privide services? I understand that I will not be able to use MAAT after my name, to be be honest, I have never used it anyway... Are there any problems I may face if I will not renew? Are there any legal issues I may face? Any answers will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



    Agata

    I'm wondering the same, if someone stop paying the membership, can he/she carry on the services? There are accountants qualified by experience without any body that provide accounting service. I rarely use MAAT after my name as well and maybe should I stop or apply for Life membership instead of paying every year?

  • catecate Registered Posts: 2
    I'm a bookkeeper and my renewal will cost me plus £105 membership plus £140 Licence plus £59 PII (compulsory for AAT membership - that's the equivalent of 3-4 days of work. The only use I have had is using AATQB after my name but to be honest, I have gained my clients through having Xero experience and bronze membership - which is free. I really want to renew but I just feel I cannot justify the cost.
  • douglasstrouddouglasstroud Registered Posts: 129
    You do not need to renew but if self-employed you will still need to get PII, legally you have to have MLR in place which you can get through HMRC but will cost £270 for the first year and then a further £130 annually as well as registering with the ICO, so still quite a lot of outlay in the first year.


  • hal978hal978 LondonMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 166
    cate said:

    I'm a bookkeeper and my renewal will cost me plus £105 membership plus £140 Licence plus £59 PII (compulsory for AAT membership - that's the equivalent of 3-4 days of work. The only use I have had is using AATQB after my name but to be honest, I have gained my clients through having Xero experience and bronze membership - which is free. I really want to renew but I just feel I cannot justify the cost.

    You need to have a licence to provide bookkeeping services if you are AATQB, otherwise you might face disciplinary action from AAT for trading without a licence. So if you don't want to renew your licence, you may need to give up your AATQB status.
  • NorvydasNorvydas DevonMAAT Posts: 260
    @hal978

    So if I am only MAAT and do not have a Bookkeeping or Accounting License with AAT, can I still provide self-employed accountancy services? Of course I would register with HMRC for Anti-Money-Laundering, purchase PII and ICO.

    But do you need to be registered with AAT? As I am not willing to be paying large fees for doing 1 or 2 friends accounts.

    Thanks.
    Kind Regards,

    Norvydas Valavicius.
  • hal978hal978 LondonMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 166
    Norvydas said:

    @hal978

    So if I am only MAAT and do not have a Bookkeeping or Accounting License with AAT, can I still provide self-employed accountancy services? Of course I would register with HMRC for Anti-Money-Laundering, purchase PII and ICO.

    But do you need to be registered with AAT? As I am not willing to be paying large fees for doing 1 or 2 friends accounts.

    Thanks.

    You can't provide self-employed accountancy services whilst MAAT without a licence, no matter how many accounts you do. If you were offering the services for free, it might be different. That I don't know.

    As you may already know, the licenced accountant fee is reduced for turnover below £7,000 (£184 + £50 application fee).
  • NorvydasNorvydas DevonMAAT Posts: 260
    @hal978

    Thanks for your answer, much appreciated.

    What if I don't renew my MAAT membership with AAT then?

    So if someone who doesn't have any qualifications and want to provide self-employed accountancy service what would they need to do? What if you are qualified by experience?

    Thanks.
    Kind Regards,

    Norvydas Valavicius.
  • douglasstrouddouglasstroud Registered Posts: 129
    You just need to register for MLR and with the ICO
    PII is recommended although not a legal requirement
    Londina
  • hal978hal978 LondonMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 166
    If you don't renew your MAAT membership then you will be an affiliate when your MAAT membership ends. An affiliate can provide self-employed accountancy services to the public.

    There is another body that offers membership for those only qualified by experience, but their membership fee is more than that of AAT (£58 pm + VAT) and they are not as well recognised as AAT. I don't know if I am allowed to mention their name here.
  • LondinaLondina Experienced Mentor MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 814
    edited February 21
    Norvydas said:

    @hal978

    But do you need to be registered with AAT? As I am not willing to be paying large fees for doing 1 or 2 friends accounts.
    Thanks.

    Exactly my situation, that's why (sadly) I decided to not renew my membership fees, it didn't justify paying over £300 for a couple of friend's accounts I do rarely on weekends.

    You just need to register for MLR and with the ICO
    PII is recommended although not a legal requirement

    This is what I did, just paid ICO and MLR directly to HMRC. if the AAT were providing a better fee for those who do occasionally accountancy work, I'd stayed...
  • NorvydasNorvydas DevonMAAT Posts: 260
    Thank you @hal978 it all makes sense now!

    @Londina I think I will do the same, when you have a higher client base then yes it is worth it, but I don't plan to have more than a few clients for a few years, as I work full time and study ACCA aswell, I rather finish ACCA and then start thinking about expanding.

    Thank you for the information guys!
    Kind Regards,

    Norvydas Valavicius.
  • hal978hal978 LondonMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 166
    Norvydas said:

    Thank you @hal978 it all makes sense now!

    @Londina I think I will do the same, when you have a higher client base then yes it is worth it, but I don't plan to have more than a few clients for a few years, as I work full time and study ACCA aswell, I rather finish ACCA and then start thinking about expanding.

    Thank you for the information guys!

    You are welcome.

    Please bear in mind that if you are studying for ACCA, they also won't allow you to provide self-employed accountancy services! Although you can do bookkeeping, payroll and VAT.
  • NorvydasNorvydas DevonMAAT Posts: 260
    @hal978

    Thank you for this, yes I had a read through ACCA guidelines and it says that bookkeeping, VAT and Payroll are all ok. In regards of the final accounts preparation, it says the student can complete them, however they can't signed them off, in this case I could potentially use a friend who has been working as sole trader in accountancy business for over 40 years, to review and sign off the final accounts.

    Many thanks Hal all the information is very much appreciated!!
    Kind Regards,

    Norvydas Valavicius.
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