do i have to study aat for att

j_khanom18

hello,
i am 28 yrs old and have a psychology degree. So far in my life, I believe I have made some frankly bad personal and career choices and am looking at trying to well improve my life and take a different path. I have been researching other study options especially in the finance/accounting/taxation arena and I am interesting in taxation- the att qualification. The reason why I am posting this ironically on the aat forum is that I would like to ask if anyone knows whether you have to have studied aat to study att. I have looked at the att website and they just say you need to be 16yrs old and reasonable knowledge in english/maths etc. Can I just start straight to the att qualification. I don't have any accountancy/finance/tax experience and have not studied anything in that arena, although I have been reading alan melville's taxation book.
Any help appreciated.
And also why do so few people study att- most go to accountancy i.e. aat/acca?

BeccaLouJ9

j_khanom18 said:

hello,
....
And also why do so few people study att- most go to accountancy i.e. aat/acca?

ATT is mainly just tax, whereas AAT/ACCA cover a lot more accounting and practice compliance etc. If you want to specialise in tax, then go for ATT, but if you want to learn a bit of everything go for the accounting quals... Or do them all!

Becca

AAT_Team

Highly recommend that you contact our friendly advisors for information and help making your decision

Tel: +44 (0)20 3735 2434
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j_khanom18

ATT is mainly just tax, whereas AAT/ACCA cover a lot more accounting and practice compliance etc. If you want to specialise in tax, then go for ATT, but if you want to learn a bit of everything go for the accounting quals... Or do them all!

Becca

Thanks for the comment. Yes, maybe one day far in the future I could do all acca, cima, att, cta etc but yes I am starting from the beginning after making some bad choices so far in my life and therefore I think I want to get going with the tax qualification.
If I may ask some qs as I can see u have done aat/att/cta.

Q1) How did you find att- how long did it take you to finish the qualification. I have asked att and they have said you need no previous qulifications so I am hoping I don't have to do aat.
Q2) What tuition provider would you recommend. I am thinking of starting slowly with personal taxation in nov with kaplan (classroom, revision classes) but I am very very undecided still- are bpp/tolley etc better- I have to make a choice soon so I can start studying as early as possible for nov exam. Any suggestions?
q3) are they any books you would recommend I read beforehand- i am currently just reading or just scanning actually alan melville's taxation book which i find interesting.
q4) this is far in the future but how did u find cta. I have heard they are hard exams but then again any one of these professional exams (aca/acca/cima/att etc) are difficult. I have heard much worse horror stories about the banking professional exams.
and also are there any forums of fellow att students because I think I would find that helpful as they are SOO many accountancy forums but barely anything for tax. I feel quite alone in this minefield.

and lastly am i posting this in the wrong section of the att forums.

j_khanom18

and to finish off this long post as i forgot to mention this but I recently saw the new att-cta pathway (well I think it started last june)- any thoughts on this. Are they making it all easier for new students or maybe they need more members. Sorry hopefully no more qs left in me?

BeccaLouJ9

1) It took me 2 years I think (It was a while ago so I can't remember) But I did one exam at each sitting, and took 3 exams + the e-assessments.

2) I was self studying ATT but using Tolley materials, for CTA I used Tolley and BPP- BPP was an online live classroom, which I found really useful, Tolley was again distance learning.

But I think BPP and Kaplan all use Tolley material now, so the only difference you will find will be teaching style I'd imagine.

3) Sorry I can't recommend any books other than the study manuals.

4) CTA was a huge step up from AAT and a definite step up from ATT. You will need to put in a lot of hours.

I don't know of any other tax forums, there is a CIOT twitter thing (I don't understand twitter), there are a couple of groups on here to the left with ATT and CTA on them. But other than that I can't help.

A piece of advice: don't underestimate the Law E-Assessment at ATT.

There is a further studies section on here, but as you haven't done AAT that doesn't really work either. Chat is fine.

Good luck
B x

BeccaLouJ9

j_khanom18 said:

and to finish off this long post as i forgot to mention this but I recently saw the new att-cta pathway (well I think it started last june)- any thoughts on this. Are they making it all easier for new students or maybe they need more members. Sorry hopefully no more qs left in me?

I don't know anything about the new pathway I'm afraid. It looks as though it will make it easier/quicker to get both quals but I don't know the details.

MarieNoelle

The Tolley Academy Forum is I believe open to everyone to read only.
http://academy.tolleytraining.co.uk/mod/forum/view.php?id=17322

BeccaLouJ9

MarieNoelle said:

The Tolley Academy Forum is I believe open to everyone to read only.
http://academy.tolleytraining.co.uk/mod/forum/view.php?id=17322

Ah yes there is that forum if you are a tolley student. Anyone can read, but only tolley students can contribute. Ta @MarieNoelle

j_khanom18

hi again,
after a couple of days of indecision, yes I have decided on att. Registered with kaplan for the first paper in november- going to take it slowly and see where the journey leads to
Thank you everyone for all the help- will get around to looking at the tolley forum.
Completely understand need to put in hours to study- as does everyone with all these professional qualifications (acca, att, cima, cipfa etc etc) and a lot of people do with children, full time jobs and everyone else that goes on in lives. . As said, this a journey for me- hoping for a not too bumpy ride
Just a quick note- does anyone know how many pages the personal taxation study book is? Want to know how many study hours I'm in for

BeccaLouJ9

http://academy.tolleytraining.co.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=8592

This post is from Dec 2015 but I'd imagine the amount of chapters hasn't changed since then.

Paper 1 = 46 and 29 chapters.

B
x

j_khanom18

thank you very much
Looks like I will be studying some week nights and also a sat/sun or both weekend days (depending on how slow/quick I am going through the study manuals etc ).
congratuations becca- can see u completed cta- hard study hours paid off
do you mind me asking do you have kids- if so how did u manage the study etc.

BeccaLouJ9

No, no kids. But I have a full time job and a house/partner to take care of... So not a lot of free time.

You will need to study weekends for sure, especially toward the end of the revision phase.

Good luck
B
x

douglasstroud

Hi
Like Becca did, I am also self studying using Tolleys material and will be sitting the Personal Tax exam in May.
The study material I have got is 2 folders, one is for Personal Tax which is 44 chapters and the other is Capital Gains Tax which is 26 chapters.

Good luck with your studies

Doug

j_khanom18

yes thank you douglasstroud- good to know a fellow person around the same stage as att. As I said, so few people do att, taxation- vast majority of people go for acca/cima.
I have heard that other providers (kaplan/bpp) use tolley study materials now- is that true? So how many pages exactly are the two folders- guessing a lot to work through
However, more than willing to sacrifice my week nights or weekends- I don't exactly have much of a social life nowadays
When did you get your study materials or start studying (kaplan says I cant get the books until end of may).
How are you finding att?

j_khanom18

oh and best wishes for your may exam.

douglasstroud

Hi

As far as I know most training providers use Tolley study material, but I self study so ordered my books direct with Tolley which I received within about 10 days, not sure why you have to wait until the end of May.
I started ATT last summer and I am hoping to complete by this November (all going well) and then to move onto CTA.
I have found ATT to be quite a big step up from AAT and a lot more intense which is good as I feel that you are learning a lot more rather than just the basics.
The Capital Gains study manual is 233 pages (A4) long which includes practice questions after each chapter and the Personal Tax manual is 443 pages (A4) which includes practice questions after each chapter.
You also get question banks to test your knowledge at the end of both modules.(More pages)

Hope this helps, and good luck

Cheers

Doug

j_khanom18

Hello,
I have been advised that it is better to get the law and ethics CBEs out of the way before doing the 3 written papers. I have just ordered the books from att but I want to know how long it normally takes to study for these 2 exams. I have been told that even though these are 'just' CBEs, they are just as hard as the written papers and that both books are very long and there is a ton to remember. Also that the information can be assessed in any of the 3 written papers so its best to 'learn' the law and ethics before continuing studying. Therefore should I study for the CBEs first and defer the written papers until next yr (ideally do all 3 papers next may and nov). I also will probably not get the 2 years practical experience required until until end of next yr done. Do most people study for the CBEs first or after the written papers or just studying along.

MarieNoelle

Hi
I sat the CBEs after the written papers - I had purchased both books before and intended to sit them before the May and November exams but never got round to it.
Yes some law and ethics are tested in the written papers but as you do some practice questions you will see what comes up more often.
They are not easy exams, a lot of information and details to retain. I think Tolleys recommend an intensive short period of revision (between 3 and 6 weeks). I sat both within 2 months of each other and luckily passed them first time. It's not unusual to have to resit these several time! I wouldn't advise trying to do them at the same time you revise for a paper, but again it depends on how you learn and how much time you have on your hands.
Hope this helps.

j_khanom18

yes, I have a feeling I might end up doing what you did. I have already ordered the two books so they should be arriving soon enough but my original plan was to get on with studying for paper 1 and just study for and do the CBEs as I went along doing the written papers. I may try to get the ethics done now as I have heard that is easier than the law. But even if I dedicated 2- 3 months now literally memorising off the two books, I have a feeling I would forget it all by november.
Yes, probably will just do the ethics now as I start studying and maybe try to get the law one done in between the written papers. In the meantime, might see which 'bits of the law' get tested in the papers as you marienoelle.
Did anyone else get the CBEs done before the written papers?

j_khanom18

would also like to ask regardind the legislation books- I was going to fill in the discount form for the books but is there a major difference between the cch and tolley books. Which one should I order. Do you refer to them a lot during studying. I am assuming I don't have to memorise the info from the legislation books as I can take them in during the exams? Right? I'm still undecided about doing the CBEs before, during or after the exams Oh decisions to be made

MarieNoelle

The question has just been asked on the CTA student group on LinkedIn and it seems there isn't a lot of difference. I used the Tolley legislation and it was easy enough to find the relevant acts and schedules from the study manual. I would suggest you attend a webinar on how to use the legislation (i think details are on the ATT site or Tolley has a video if I remember on their Academy). It takes a while to get used to it and with the time pressure you may not use it during the exam. However for some areas like penalties, statutory residence test, VAT schedules... it's really useful not to have to remember all the details!

j_khanom18

thank you marienoelle? Will probably just order the tolley legislation today.
By chance, does anyone have a previous att personal taxation study book that they are willing to sell?

Bertie

My opinion -

Firstly, never ever, ever buy old tax legislation - never.

Never.

I'd advise you to study AAT first. The reason for suggesting such is that with the AAT qualification it is more of a general practice qualification, where as ATT is not.

People struggle to find jobs with AAT and you'll be limiting yourself further by having a specialist qualification only.

It isn't impossible to get a job with just ATT, BDO advertise for such positions. But that isn't the point I'm making. Think about it logically.

When you are given your first job in industry or practice you will be given the entry level jobs, I think you'll struggle. You have no experience and no prior bookkeeping or accounts preparation knowledge.

Let me tell you this too, solid bookkeeping pays you back big time. Forget fancy software, get that ingrained before you move onto anything else.

HTH