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Apparently Jews are stupid!

speegsspeegs Experienced MentorRegistered Posts: 854
Hi Everyone

I was so shocked by this incident that I had to come on to the forums for your compassion and support. I also need you all to stop me from decking the cow who said this.

Yesterday I was in the office when, completely out of the blue, this stupid cow sitting next to me said "You're a Jew aren't you?". I replied that I was and ask why she needed to confirm this and she replied with "Well I think the Jews must be really stupid. They knew the Germans hated them, why didn't they just leave Germany?". I pointed out that her comments were racist and anti-semetic and she said that she was entitled to her opinion.

Now the thing is, I, as have others in the office, have had problems with this stupid girl before, but what upset me the most was that she made this particular comment out in the main office in front of the HR Manager and when I wrote an email to HR saying what I thought about her comments the HR manager said that I was "too sensitive" and that "it was probably a joke".

Well you know what, I think the management here are a joke. I have made formal complaints about this girls abusive behaviour before and nothing gets done except that she gets a slap on the wrist. Well last night I reported this as a racist attack to the police. My immediate boss even came with me to the police station as a witness. Imagine my surprise this morning when the police turned up at the office to question the girl. She is currently at the police station and I await further news.

At least the police take these matters seriously.

Speegs :crying::crying:
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Comments

  • Marg22Marg22 Feels At Home Registered Posts: 84
    Hi Speegs,

    I am not actually a Jew but I do sympathise with you entirely. I think you have got real guts getting the police involved, because it should be nipped in the bud and the action you have taken will stop others following in her path in your work place. I don't think she has a clue what she is talking about the Germans did not really hate the Jews they were frightened of them because they were smarter, highly skilled and had the midas touch at making money, so the Jews were seen as a threat and also they were different and would not conform to their ways. (Thank Goodness)

    I am happily married now, but I had an experience of working for a company and a Jewish man worked there and he got picked on by two other men. The first I knew about it was when I was typing the disciplinary letter and to my disgust it was someone I was actually going out with at that time, so I finished with him as a result of it. I believe that everyone should be able to practice which ever religion they choose and should not be persecuted for it.

    I feel sure that the outcome will be in your favour.

    All the best

    Kind Regards

    Marg
  • Marg22Marg22 Feels At Home Registered Posts: 84
    Speegs,

    I forgot, but I just want to mention that I once worked for a Jewish firm and I think I can say without any doubt that they were one of the nicest set of people that I have ever worked for. They did not treat me badly just because I was not a Jew.

    Regards

    Marg
  • LondonMattLondonMatt Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,110
    Well first off, congratulations on not decking her - the temptation to do so to the 'intellectually challenged' can be great, lol
    speegs wrote: »
    "Well I think the Jews must be really stupid. They knew the Germans hated them, why didn't they just leave Germany?".
    Well last night I reported this as a racist attack to the police.

    But to be honest, I'm not sure about this. What she said was stupid but - depending on what else she's said - I'm not sure calling the police was the best idea. Perhaps it would have been better to debate with her and try to change her viewpoint? Rather than call in the police? It sounds as though most people in the office have issues with her - so probably don't take her opinions seriously anyway - but by calling the police, you only increase the sympathy she'll received from people who think you over reacted to a stupid comment by a stupid person and the 'free speech' brigade.

    The police rarely solve anything imho, but again, it depends on what else she's said and also what type of person she is
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    speegs wrote: »
    Hi Everyone

    I was so shocked by this incident that I had to come on to the forums for your compassion and support. I also need you all to stop me from decking the cow who said this.

    Yesterday I was in the office when, completely out of the blue, this stupid cow sitting next to me said "You're a Jew aren't you?". I replied that I was and ask why she needed to confirm this and she replied with "Well I think the Jews must be really stupid. They knew the Germans hated them, why didn't they just leave Germany?". I pointed out that her comments were racist and anti-semetic and she said that she was entitled to her opinion.

    Now the thing is, I, as have others in the office, have had problems with this stupid girl before, but what upset me the most was that she made this particular comment out in the main office in front of the HR Manager and when I wrote an email to HR saying what I thought about her comments the HR manager said that I was "too sensitive" and that "it was probably a joke".

    Well you know what, I think the management here are a joke. I have made formal complaints about this girls abusive behaviour before and nothing gets done except that she gets a slap on the wrist. Well last night I reported this as a racist attack to the police. My immediate boss even came with me to the police station as a witness. Imagine my surprise this morning when the police turned up at the office to question the girl. She is currently at the police station and I await further news.

    At least the police take these matters seriously.

    Speegs :crying::crying:

    OMG Speeds am so sorry the ignorance some people can still shock me. Good for you for calling the police and you should be proud and stick to your guns - that was nothing more or less than abuse.

    I know your boss is sticking by you but by not giving her an instant sacking am also sure you have a case to take to tribunaral. You cannot be expected to work under that kind of situation and am sure the courts would also see it in that manner.

    Good luck and please keep us informed as to the developments.

    Vic
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    This was all she said on this occassion, but in the past she has also bullied a Hare Krishna who worked for us and also a Muslim chap. She really does seem to have a problem with people who follow a religion.

    I would like to add that everyone in the office (and this includes the HR manager since the police turned up) are all backing me. Although the HR manager does not want to take any action because this girl has "had a troubled past".

    Amazing isn't it. I am now beginning to see why when a majority of people leave our company just a few weeks later we are dealing with their solicitors.

    Speegs
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    Also, I will not allow this silly little, small minded, piece of human excrement (OK I'll say it, POO), to force me our of my job of 5 years. Apart from her attitude, I love my job and intend to stay put. It's her who should leave or be sacked, perhaps she should work for some of the more extreme members of the BNP!
  • BluewednesdayBluewednesday Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,624
    Never mind the girl - the HR manager needs dealing with!!

    Troubled past be damned - what a ridiculous reason for not dealing with the woman.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    speegs wrote: »
    This was all she said on this occassion, but in the past she has also bullied a Hare Krishna who worked for us and also a Muslim chap. She really does seem to have a problem with people who follow a religion.

    I would like to add that everyone in the office (and this includes the HR manager since the police turned up) are all backing me. Although the HR manager does not want to take any action because this girl has "had a troubled past".

    Amazing isn't it. I am now beginning to see why when a majority of people leave our company just a few weeks later we are dealing with their solicitors.

    Speegs

    (lol at "troubled past") it would seem that this girl needs to grow up or she will have a troubled future too.

    Also good staff are hard to find the retainable ones at least (who knows maybe they dont want to become some sort of PC employer and people worried to say this or that) but my gawd are they blind???

    It would seem all the HR staff need a course in human awareness and people management or just the whole dam lot need replacing
  • BuffBuff Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 275
    Speeg,

    2 forms of congrats - 1st for not lamping the daft cow and second for getting the police involved.
    I wrote an email to HR saying what I thought about her comments the HR manager said that I was "too sensitive" and that "it was probably a joke".
    somebody tell me if i'm wrong, but isn't this "HR Officer" shirking her responsibilities? If an allegation is made then there are procedures to follow. This could go in your favour should it end up in legal matters further down the line.
    Now the thing is, I, as have others in the office, have had problems with this stupid girl before
    Did you ever complain to HR about these matters? Again, this could help if this ends up as an employment tribunal.

    Whilst I don't agree with the fact you HAD to call the police, I do agree with your choice TO call them - if the HR officer would have been doing her duties correctly, I doubt you would have thought to phone the police and because of her ineptitude, the police responded onto the premises. HR only have themselves to blame for this. Not You. If they had done their jobs right, you would not have had to phone them for something to be done.

    I don't generally get involved in religion debates, I personally believe all religions are a sham, stories made up and adjusted as evloution takes it toll - but that's just my opinion and I would not judge other people purely on their beliefs which this girl seems to do in this case - what gives her the right to belittle you PUBLICLY in that way - it's racial, it's bullying, it's a definiate disciplinary offence and again, I come back to the HR officer - why has she/he not done anything so far?

    I'm pretty sure something will happen as a result of the police visit - it's not a good look for a business when the police come and go. The business will probably now be cacking themselves rihgt about now, if they were to start proceedings against you or even sack you because of this uproar caused, you have a sound case for unfair dismissal on racial grounds.

    I hope it doesn't come to that but am interested to know how this pans out.
  • Paul24Paul24 Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 578
    speegs wrote: »
    Hi Everyone

    I was so shocked by this incident that I had to come on to the forums for your compassion and support. I also need you all to stop me from decking the cow who said this.

    Yesterday I was in the office when, completely out of the blue, this stupid cow sitting next to me said "You're a Jew aren't you?". I replied that I was and ask why she needed to confirm this and she replied with "Well I think the Jews must be really stupid. They knew the Germans hated them, why didn't they just leave Germany?". I pointed out that her comments were racist and anti-semetic and she said that she was entitled to her opinion.

    Now the thing is, I, as have others in the office, have had problems with this stupid girl before, but what upset me the most was that she made this particular comment out in the main office in front of the HR Manager and when I wrote an email to HR saying what I thought about her comments the HR manager said that I was "too sensitive" and that "it was probably a joke".

    Well you know what, I think the management here are a joke. I have made formal complaints about this girls abusive behaviour before and nothing gets done except that she gets a slap on the wrist. Well last night I reported this as a racist attack to the police. My immediate boss even came with me to the police station as a witness. Imagine my surprise this morning when the police turned up at the office to question the girl. She is currently at the police station and I await further news.

    At least the police take these matters seriously.

    Speegs :crying::crying:

    Sorry to hear about this Speegs, and I take my hat off to you for going to the police, I think I would have dealt with it in a more sneaky way, people like that are the lowest of society, nearly as bad as the red tape brigade in the HR jobs, who dont understand peoples 'needs' at work. I dont think her past should be mocked at, she may have had a traumatic upbringing, but this is in no way defending her as it is totally irrelevant in this situation. I myself had a very unusual childhood, however no one I work with is any the wiser, as there is a professional line to be drawn, and it certainly does not excuse ridiculous behaviour.

    Keep us posted Speegs!
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    You may want to consider instigating a grievance against your company because they have not taken appropriate action in time to deal with racism in the work place.

    If they fail to discipline a racist employee then they condone their behaviour.

    Your employers are failing you if they excuse racism by calling it "a joke" or justifying appalling behaviour because of someone's troubled past.

    We all support you on here Speegs.
  • LondonMattLondonMatt Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,110
    speegs wrote: »
    Also, I will not allow this silly little, small minded, piece of human excrement (OK I'll say it, POO), to force me our of my job of 5 years. Apart from her attitude, I love my job and intend to stay put. It's her who should leave or be sacked, perhaps she should work for some of the more extreme members of the BNP!
    The thing is though, she will go away still being a "silly, small minded, piece of human excrement". Her veiws won't have changed - in fact they have probably hardened - and she will go on expressing her opinions in her next job, inflicting the same distress you have suffered, on to other people. I don't know if you did, but I think you should have argued your case that the Jews were not stupid for not leaving Germany. You could get her to change her mind and see the error of her ways. The worst case senario being, you give her enough rope to hang herself. Win-win, imho.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Paul24 wrote: »
    Sorry to hear about this Speegs, and I take my hat off to you for going to the police, I think I would have dealt with it in a more sneaky way, people like that are the lowest of society, nearly as bad as the red tape brigade in the HR jobs, who dont understand peoples 'needs' at work. I dont think her past should be mocked at, she may have had a traumatic upbringing, but this is in no way defending her as it is totally irrelevant in this situation. I myself had a very unusual childhood, however no one I work with is any the wiser, as there is a professional line to be drawn, and it certainly does not excuse ridiculous behaviour.

    Keep us posted Speegs!

    Please dont misunderstand what i said as mocking people with a troubled upbringing (heck we all have a story) but shouldn't that make them more understanding and sensivtive to peoples feelings on matters such as race and belifs.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    Thanks for all you support. There is still no sign of the girl in the office. She has not returned from her field trip to the cop shop yet.

    Our HR manager is a member CIPD. Now I am not about to approach them, but can you imagine what they would say if they found out this was how one of their members thought racism was a joke.

    You are also right about the police. If my HR manager had dealt with the matter swiftly and efficiently when it happened yesterday I would not have taken the matter further.

    I don't want to bring a case against the company because for some strange reason I love my job. The stupid thing is that my own private practice is really taking off and I think in a year or so I will actually have to pack in my employed work to go self employed full time. Which is my ultimate goal.

    Speegs
  • PAMDILLPAMDILL Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 716
    I am a member of a minority religion (Mormon) as well and I used to have to put up with a lot of bullying and jokes about it when at school, thankfully in my working life it has only happened a couple of times. Usually when having a bit of a banter with a site agent and in a non-offensive way.

    However in your situation I would have taken offense as well and certainly don't think you were being 'over-sensitive' as the HR manager put it.

    If you get on well with your immediate manager I would ask her to report the HR manager to someone in a higher position as the HR Manager is definitely not doing her job, especially if this has been going on for some time and with other minorities in the workplace.

    I have not worked in an organisation big enough to have HR Manage etc. since I left Royal Mail in the early 90's but I have been in a supervisory position in companies and certainly would have disciplined someone in my office the first time they did i, never mind letting it happen a few times to different people.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    Hi Padmill.

    I will speak to my manager about reporting HR to the CEO (the level above her). We are actually a small company, but the CEO is also Jewish and when he gets back from his holidays next week, I don't think he is going to be very happy about the comments that have been said.

    Anyway, I am interested in something. I have of course heard of the Mormons but have absolutely no idea what your beliefs are. Are you a branch of Christianity?

    Speegs:001_smile:
  • fatandfortyfatandforty Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 553
    I cannot believe that in this day and age you should have to tolerate this small minded stupidity and ignorance. I think you were completely right to involve the police and am actually quite shocked that your work place is not doing enough about this bullying. She must have been quite shocked to have been carted off to the police station and you never know it might make her think twice about upsetting people in future.
  • PAMDILLPAMDILL Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 716
    speegs wrote: »
    Hi Padmill.

    I will speak to my manager about reporting HR to the CEO (the level above her). We are actually a small company, but the CEO is also Jewish and when he gets back from his holidays next week, I don't think he is going to be very happy about the comments that have been said.

    Anyway, I am interested in something. I have of course heard of the Mormons but have absolutely no idea what your beliefs are. Are you a branch of Christianity?

    Speegs:001_smile:
    Branch of Christianity but based more on the original Christian faith from Biblical times than moe modern versions.
  • LondonMattLondonMatt Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,110
    She must have been quite shocked to have been carted off to the police station and you never know it might make her think twice about upsetting people in future.

    She may well think twice about upsetting people in the future when in public, but her actual views will remain the same. In private conversations with her friends, family, children (?) etc, she will continue to say what she said
  • PAMDILLPAMDILL Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 716
    LondonMatt wrote: »
    She may well think twice about upsetting people in the future when in public, but her actual views will remain the same. In private conversations with her friends, family, children (?) etc, she will continue to say what she said
    Which will mean more small minded bigots in the future, but then that is why we have free will.

    People can think what they like any where and do what they like in the privacy of their own homes but they should not be saying what they like in close quarters to someone else they know it is going to offend.
    Different matter if in the street the other person can fight back (verbally or physically), still doesnot make it right to do so but worse possible place is your workplace there the person you are insulting is sitting duck, if they fight back they risk losing their jobs.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    Hi Padmill

    That is very interesting. Does is make the religion much harder to follow?

    I am a progressive Jew with is a fairly modern branch of the Jewish faith. However, I know that the more Orthodox Jews also follow a stricter path which is based on principles from way way back in Biblical times also.

    I am ashamed to say that I have chosen the progressive path as I would find the orthodox way of life far to restrictive. However, having said that I have found more recently (since I became a member of a synagogue with a more "lively - ish" service) that I have become more observant. And I kind of like it. :001_smile:

    Speegs
  • fatandfortyfatandforty Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 553
    That is very true. You can't easily change a persons ignorance and she will probably be feeling hard done by but at least the police are taking the matter seriously. And as you say if she has children she will be bringing up another generation of racist bullies.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    PAMDILL wrote: »
    Which will mean more small minded bigots in the future, but then that is why we have free will.

    People can think what they like any where and do what they like in the privacy of their own homes but they should not be saying what they like in close quarters to someone else they know it is going to offend.
    Different matter if in the street the other person can fight back (verbally or physically), still doesnot make it right to do so but worse possible place is your workplace there the person you are insulting is sitting duck, if they fight back they risk losing their jobs.

    I agree. You can say what you think in private if you wish to, but she actually said it to my face. She's got guts don't you think. Either that or she is stupid. I suspect it is a bit of both.

    By the way, there is still no sign of her in the office.
  • PAMDILLPAMDILL Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 716
    speegs wrote: »
    Hi Padmill

    That is very interesting. Does is make the religion much harder to follow?

    I am a progressive Jew with is a fairly modern branch of the Jewish faith. However, I know that the more Orthodox Jews also follow a stricter path which is based on principles from way way back in Biblical times also.

    I am ashamed to say that I have chosen the progressive path as I would find the orthodox way of life far to restrictive. However, having said that I have found more recently (since I became a member of a synagogue with a more "lively - ish" service) that I have become more observant. And I kind of like it. :001_smile:

    Speegs
    I don't find it too bad, but then I was brought up in it, fell away in my teens as I decided I wanted to party and drink etc.

    The bit converts find hardest is the health code: no drinking alcohol, no smoking, no illegal drugs, eating healthily, etc. Also no sex outwith marriage.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    PAMDILL wrote: »
    I don't find it too bad, but then I was brought up in it, fell away in my teens as I decided I wanted to party and drink etc.

    The bit converts find hardest is the health code: no drinking alcohol, no smoking, no illegal drugs, eating healthily, etc. Also no sex outwith marriage.

    Wow and I thought Judaism was hard. No naughty porky's or shell fish, no sex before marriage, no illegal drugs. Apart from that we can pretty much do what we want.
  • LondonMattLondonMatt Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,110
    PAMDILL wrote: »
    Which will mean more small minded bigots in the future, but then that is why we have free will.

    People can think what they like any where and do what they like in the privacy of their own homes but they should not be saying what they like in close quarters to someone else they know it is going to offend.
    Different matter if in the street the other person can fight back (verbally or physically), still doesnot make it right to do so but worse possible place is your workplace there the person you are insulting is sitting duck, if they fight back they risk losing their jobs.

    She shouldn't have said what she said, I agree, but nothing has changed - she is still a *bigot. Unless we engage with bigots and convince them through the power of our arguments that they are wrong, nothing will change. She will always be a bigot. You can not hide and refuse proper debate on important issues. If she said that she thinks the NHS should be shut down (for eg) you could probably convince her otherwise and yet, for really important things like race, religion, tolerance etc, we wimp out and call the police? Why not engage in debate and change her mind?

    *I don't actually feel comfortable with that word on this occassion, as we have only heard one quote from her
  • LondonMattLondonMatt Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,110
    That is very true. You can't easily change a persons ignorance and she will probably be feeling hard done by but at least the police are taking the matter seriously. And as you say if she has children she will be bringing up another generation of racist bullies.
    Exactly, nothing has changed, the world does not get better.
  • speegsspeegs Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 854
    Hi Londonmatt.

    I would not have "wimped out" and called the police if this had been a one off occurence, or if HR had dealt with it effectively yesterday. However, she has already had warnings in the past for racist behaviour, but because she gets on so well with HR the HR manager does not want to take the matter further as she would probably have to sack the girl.

    I am not a "wimp" but what can I do when HR will not do anything about this kind of behaviour.

    Speegs
  • fatandfortyfatandforty Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 553
    I don't think there is any way of talking sense into people like that. You just have to show them their behaviour won't be tolerated.
  • X5wranglerX5wrangler Well-Known Registered Posts: 170
    Speegs, it should never have got that far and the girl in question should have been dealt with more prompty and efficiently. Well done for not thumping her as you would then be in trouble and she would become a "victim". You kept your dignity well.
    Also by reading this thread, I would like to add that although the company I work for is ridiculed and hated by the public most of the time, :001_rolleyes:
    I must work with every religion going, every ethnic, every culture too and we ALL come to work here and we have never had an incident like this. Even the welcome board at the entrance is in about 52 languages. I would like to say I am very proud of the company I work for because they have brought everyone together and everyone respects each other. It has also embraced all the religions and we all know what is happening and when.
    Gosh, what an eye opener.
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