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Copies of Passports

clegganatorclegganator Well-KnownRegistered Posts: 184
Hi

An issue has come up at the practice I work at where someone heard that we aren't allowed to keep copies of passports because they can be used to create a phony passport. I'm not sure how true this is but can someone advise? Obviously passports are an awesome of finding out if someone is who they say they are etc... Has anyone else heard anything similar to this?

advice?
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Comments

  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Hi

    An issue has come up at the practice I work at where someone heard that we aren't allowed to keep copies of passports because they can be used to create a phony passport. I'm not sure how true this is but can someone advise? Obviously passports are an awesome of finding out if someone is who they say they are etc... Has anyone else heard anything similar to this?

    advice?

    We do copies of passports here and not had a problem as long as the clients books and records are secure
  • acc1077acc1077 Well-Known Registered Posts: 138
    Is there not an issue with data protection by taking photocopies of passports
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    No as you need it for ID, well not as far as ive heard
  • clegganatorclegganator Well-Known Registered Posts: 184
    acc1077 wrote: »
    Is there not an issue with data protection by taking photocopies of passports

    In theory I wouldn't of thought so as long as it is kept secure, the subject can access it, it is only kept for as long as needed etc etc.

    The client has said that a copy of passport can be used to file a false passport replacement form. She knew someone who objected to a copy of the passport being kept for this reason, went to a unknown union and they agreed with her...
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    In theory I wouldn't of thought so as long as it is kept secure, the subject can access it, it is only kept for as long as needed etc etc.

    The client has said that a copy of passport can be used to file a false passport replacement form. She knew someone who objected to a copy of the passport being kept for this reason, went to a unknown union and they agreed with her...

    You need photo id and what id they dont drive? what else could you use and if they couldnt produce anything else should you even take on the client? Money Laundering states you need full id
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    Isn't checking someone's eligibility to work a different issue than keeping a copy of their passport? After all, surely you can still routinely check their passport but not make a copy as part of company policy, then keep records of checks carried out rather than the document itself? And as for security, actually how secure would dozens of passport copies be, if kept in a filing cabinet in a small accounting practice against a determined thief?
  • clegganatorclegganator Well-Known Registered Posts: 184
    ACCA just confirmed to someone else who worked here we can. In the unions face!
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Isn't that how Baroness Scotland landed herself in hot water?

    Personally I make all my staff give DNA samples and allow me to photograph all identifiable birth marks, tatoos and piercings.

    I tell them it's the law.........they don't understand...... no one speaks English.................
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    blobbyh wrote: »
    Isn't checking someone's eligibility to work a different issue than keeping a copy of their passport? After all, surely you can still routinely check their passport but not make a copy as part of company policy, then keep records of checks carried out rather than the document itself? And as for security, actually how secure would dozens of passport copies be, if kept in a filing cabinet in a small accounting practice against a determined thief?

    i was speaking as in client id and proceedure not employment i.e 64-8 LOE ect
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Cullen wrote: »
    Isn't that how Baroness Scotland landed herself in hot water?

    Personally I make all my staff give DNA samples and allow me to photograph all identifiable birth marks, tatoos and piercings.

    I tell them it's the law.........they don't understand...... no one speaks English.................

    never working for you not if you have to take photo of my birthmark lol (please dont ask where) lol
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Hmmm....

    (I really need to find out more about that birthmark)

    Oh go on, tell us!!
  • ROCKROCK New Member Registered Posts: 12
    ID checks

    Passport copy (or photo driving license) is an essential piece of information to obtain from the client and keep as part of the money laurndering checks
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Passport copy (or photo driving license) is an essential piece of information to obtain from the client and keep as part of the money laurndering checks

    yep as i though
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Cullen wrote: »
    Hmmm....

    (I really need to find out more about that birthmark)

    Oh go on, tell us!!

    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    A-Vic wrote: »
    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said

    lol i know how to kill a good thread lmao hahaha
  • mark130273mark130273 Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 4,234
    A-Vic wrote: »
    lol i sit on the best part of it nuff said

    NOW im intrieged ????
  • Jon_1984Jon_1984 Well-Known Registered Posts: 186
    Can you not copy it in front of the client, ensure you are happy with it as ID and then obsure part of the ID number (say middle 6 digits) with a black marker in their presence to ensure it is "safe"?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    mark130273 wrote: »
    NOW im intrieged ????

    Mark you know how you like to finish a thread well i am with NUFF SAID lmao
  • AK002AK002 Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,492
    I don't think "NUFF SAID" actually...

    But yeah, copying client ID is an big part of client ID and money laundering checks!
  • JodieRJodieR Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 1,002
    Jon_1984 wrote: »
    Can you not copy it in front of the client, ensure you are happy with it as ID and then obsure part of the ID number (say middle 6 digits) with a black marker in their presence to ensure it is "safe"?

    I thought that the reason we take copies of passports is so that if the client was ever suspected of criminal activity the police could come to us for details of the client's identity. I would think that a full copy of a passport would be more useful to the police than one with parts blanked out, but I stand to be corrected.
  • Portsmouth_AATPortsmouth_AAT Feels At Home Registered Posts: 96
    ACCA just confirmed to someone else who worked here we can. In the unions face!

    Most employers take a copy of passport on employing you and do keep it on file as a form of ID it also confirms you are legally aloud to work in the UK.
  • deanshepherddeanshepherd Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,809
    JodieR wrote: »
    I thought that the reason we take copies of passports is so that if the client was ever suspected of criminal activity the police could come to us for details of the client's identity.

    Never heard of that one before. We check ID to confirm the client is who they say they are. Once we have confirmed it there is no reason to keep a copy other than to prove we have carried out the MLR assessment. If the client would rather we did not keep a copy then blanking out the particulars seems a very good idea. No client has raised any objections to me so far.
  • Julia CrouchJulia Crouch Feels At Home Registered Posts: 68
    Hi

    My understanding regarding new customer due diligence is that it is not necessary to take photocopies of the evidence used as ID, just keeping a note is sufficient so that it may be traced e.g. passport number and date of issue.

    The fact that photocopies are being taken is probably down to the practices own procedures and their setting levels for risk.

    Personally, I do not have a passport and I do not have a photo driving license and so would you turn me down as a client?

    Julia
  • deanshepherddeanshepherd Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,809
    Yes!
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    Most employers take a copy of passport on employing you and do keep it on file as a form of ID it also confirms you are legally aloud to work in the UK.

    We agree that checking eligibility to work is a legal requirement for an employer however physically keeping a copy of the person's passport once this has been done is arguably in breach of the following parts of the Data Protection Act;

    "... processed for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and not further processed in any way that is incompatible with the original purpose".

    "... kept for no longer than is necessary for the purpose for which it is being used".

    "... adequate, relevant and not excessive".

    "... accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date".

    I'd say keeping copies on file, including those of ex-employees, breaks all four of the above principles not to mention the others if data is not stored securely.
  • CullenCullen Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 592
    Well, why was Baroness Scotland censured for not keeping a copy of her housekeepers passport?
  • sarahwilsonsarahwilson Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 567
    She said she had checked the lady was eligible to work in this country but she had not kept copies of anything she had checked to prove this.
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    She said she had checked the lady was eligible to work in this country but she had not kept copies of anything she had checked to prove this.

    Pretty easy to say after the fact when you're up against the wall but while keeping copies of documentation may have arguably proved her innocence, the offence was for employing an illegal immigrant not for failing to take copies.

    From Wikipedia:

    "The housekeeper's passport, seized by the UK Borders Agency contained a forged visa, but even the forged visa had expired at the date Baroness Scotland claimed to have inspected it. Baroness Scotland has since suggested that there must have been a second passport, so far undiscovered, and that this was the passport she inspected, but failed to copy".
  • deanshepherddeanshepherd Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,809
    Cullen does raise a very interesting point. Baroness Scotland was very much chastised for not being able to produce a copy of the passport she had apparently checked - no mention of any data protection issues.
  • blobbyhblobbyh Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,415
    I guess there's also a debate that can you spot a fake passport and if not, should you be later punished for it if you were genuinely deceived? But according to Wikipedia (which I know is hardly Gospel), the "errors" made by Baroness Scotland seemed entirely avoidable. Let's face it, she just didn't check, did she? Either that or conspiracy theorists are having a field day over this.
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