Making Tax Digital
lisajayne1
Registered, MAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 53
Once again I am a new practice with a few clients. I am reading and reading everything I can and have demo's booked for several different software providers
I am currently sage all the way, however I have found issues with accounts production mainly. Sage One is NOT getting good reviews, I think they were so popular for so long, they didn't see the competition coming.
I have Line 50 Accounts, Sage Accounts Production, Payroll, Business & Personal Tax and Partnership. All of which have their own subscription fee. It mounts up.
Xero and now Capium seem to offer everything and easily evolving for the future. Plus have been recommended on the forum.
After reading about sage I am concerned about MTD. In fact I am concerned - full stop -
How are you thinking of monitoring your clients qtly returns?
e.g are you asking them to download app? are you looking to import their information into your accounts programs? (for example if you had a client, on sage or VT can these files be incorporated into xero or capium with ease, xls or csv files possibly)
Our clients could be claiming all sorts as expenses? they also have no clue as the Capital Allowances etc.. so how do HMRC think they can just submit income and expenses through their digital accounts.. I have clients that don't have separate bank accounts, so the direct bank feed/reconciliation is not an option.
I also have clients that don't own a computer.
Just throwing it out there for a little support and opinions please.
I am currently sage all the way, however I have found issues with accounts production mainly. Sage One is NOT getting good reviews, I think they were so popular for so long, they didn't see the competition coming.
I have Line 50 Accounts, Sage Accounts Production, Payroll, Business & Personal Tax and Partnership. All of which have their own subscription fee. It mounts up.
Xero and now Capium seem to offer everything and easily evolving for the future. Plus have been recommended on the forum.
After reading about sage I am concerned about MTD. In fact I am concerned - full stop -
How are you thinking of monitoring your clients qtly returns?
e.g are you asking them to download app? are you looking to import their information into your accounts programs? (for example if you had a client, on sage or VT can these files be incorporated into xero or capium with ease, xls or csv files possibly)
Our clients could be claiming all sorts as expenses? they also have no clue as the Capital Allowances etc.. so how do HMRC think they can just submit income and expenses through their digital accounts.. I have clients that don't have separate bank accounts, so the direct bank feed/reconciliation is not an option.
I also have clients that don't own a computer.
Just throwing it out there for a little support and opinions please.
0
Comments
I am just starting out with my own practice and have been toying with Xero and Sage. Xero seems to get better reviews however I know many businesses (potential clients) use Sage as it is the one that those out of the accounting world tend to know about.
With regard to MTD there still seems to be some grey areas on the thresholds etc, is this your understanding?
It seems ridiculous that small business that I will have as clients with turnover under £25k will need to pay quarterly? 4 returns over 1 each year will just burden either the clients with additional costs or the accountants who may absorb the costs
Sage has been my accounts package for 17years.. so blindfolded comes to mind.
To change software & contend with MTD changes is a scary thought!
Yes seen a lot of info on thresholds!! Crazy numbers!
I've read doubling the fees, however it's almost 4 returns per year? But I guess all the other info on the return (personal details etc) will be redundant, so save time there.
I personally would love to stay with sage.. but I think they are behind in the race.. let's hope they catch up.
Good luck with your practice
Thanks for the advise.
As new to this I am feeling abit uneasy with which software to go for with all this. From the above would you recommend then that I ask clients to use VT if they are small sole traders/personal tax clients? Does VT have the capacity to upload directly onto the HMRC tax retrn site?
I am keen to have my and larger clients books go through a cloud based system and think from what I hear Xero is well equipped for this. Is this opening up a nightmare for me though with clients who already use Sage (or another).
I hadn't been as worried prior to reading the MTD drafts as one return per year would give much time to work around things, 4 a year time wouldn't be available.
Thanks
Dave
I guess the 1st question is can you import sage files in Xero?? (csv files etc)
I don't have VT but have looked at it, as again its coming up a lot.
The price to purchase the bookkeeping+ (I think it is) is £125+vat this is a one off. However she did say that once MTD goes live it will be subscription based around £100+ vat a year. (This takes you to Balance sheet & P&L)
There is an accountants package for (I think) £190, but the reviews are not great.
So if my understanding is correct, we would need the subscription to upload our clients data. (to Check & submit on their behalf) that would enable us to recommend to our clients to get the free, cash in cash out cashbook type software, saving them on costs.
OR
I'm thinking out loud here.. We could also get the free software package to review the data sent in by the clients.. (small self employed)
I think if you had a small business (25K plus) and wanted P&L & B'Sht for your client, they could still use the free software (again depends on cash accounting or accruals based accounts) and "we" as accountants would use the Bookkeeping +. However then you would need to upload it into an accounts production package for full accounts tax comp ect. ??
Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.
Love the idea of our clients having a free cashbook software. Although it is only PC based !!!
Cloud have an app. I have a consultation booked for later this week, will ask how much for the clients?
I am rambling .. sorry
Are there any conferences/events that the software suppliers attend to show their products? I think for me seeing them all 'in action' would be of great benefit.
http://www.accountex.co.uk/
Sage Accounts production and tax software is terrible and exepnsive. I've been quoted almost as much as for Iris. It would currently cost me in excess of 4 times what I pay Capium and I would get a worse product.
Line 50 still has its place and we still have clients who use it. For these we have subcontract bookkeeping firm who manage all of these with onsite visits.
For us the immediate focus is those who are using spreadsheets and to get these all on Xero by this April.
There will be some work then on some to get them onto separate bank accounts and online banking and getting over the fear of online as they are more than capable.
This should leave us with about 20-25% who are more challenging as they either don't have the required skills, don't have spare funds to pay us to do the work, are very cash based have limited internet access. These will be a challenge and we need to work out how to help them best.
Burg
Sage production has been shockingly bad -for me too-
How are you looking to process capital allowance items?
Will you still be making year end adjustments as usual- being that they go in the final qtr of the year ? ?
I have just registered for accountex, however I fly home from holiday on the 10th .. so depending on alcohol consumption - not sure how much I'll take in
The final 5th return will then be a normal return as per the current rules which will then wrap up everything including year end adjustments.
Burg
I have just enrolled too Lisa. Are you there for one or both days? May see you there
all these comments are great & making things clearer. Very much appreciated.
It's a juggle between knowing the responsibilities & rules - then also implementing them to jo public & navigating them due to ability
Hi davidbyworth .. not sure what time I land on the 10th but definitely be there on the 11th
Burg
Interesting
> MTD will see a bit of a shakeup but mainly with new players I think most of the others will just be adding some form of filing function.
>
> Sage Accounts production and tax software is terrible and exepnsive. I've been quoted almost as much as for Iris. It would currently cost me in excess of 4 times what I pay Capium and I would get a worse product.
>
> Line 50 still has its place and we still have clients who use it. For these we have subcontract bookkeeping firm who manage all of these with onsite visits.
>
> For us the immediate focus is those who are using spreadsheets and to get these all on Xero by this April.
>
> There will be some work then on some to get them onto separate bank accounts and online banking and getting over the fear of online as they are more than capable.
>
> This should leave us with about 20-25% who are more challenging as they either don't have the required skills, don't have spare funds to pay us to do the work, are very cash based have limited internet access. These will be a challenge and we need to work out how to help them best.
What accounts production & tax software do you use with xero?
Capium seems - on the surface to tick every box, however I have yet to play around with it!
(Their future app tho is going to between £5-£8 approx per client per month) but I guess that's up to the client if they want to pay for that convenience.
https://forums.aat.org.uk/discussion/444447/capium#latest
Burg
> Yes I use Capium but do not use any of their bookkeeping products. Have not even looked at them as Xero suits us very well and so many people use it and clients find it very easy to use.
So you use the self assessment & accounts production on capium? What about the payroll?
Burg
Hi
You said you had a consultation with Xero last week. Just wondering whether you heard from them? I also contacted them last week for prices and rather than email they wanted to speak to me and asked when I would be available. I gave them a number of times I would be available last week and heard nothing back from them. I realise they may be busy but an email to say they were not available at those times would have been something. It's kind of putting me off trying them now.
Burg
> I have a consultation with Capium & Xero this week. VT looks good for my smaller £10-15k self assessment clients.
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> Sage production has been shockingly bad -for me too-
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> How are you looking to process capital allowance items?
>
> Will you still be making year end adjustments as usual- being that they go in the final qtr of the year ? ?
>
> I have just registered for accountex, however I fly home from holiday on the 10th .. so depending on alcohol consumption - not sure how much I'll take in
>
>
>
> Hi
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> You said you had a consultation with Xero last week. Just wondering whether you heard from them? I also contacted them last week for prices and rather than email they wanted to speak to me and asked when I would be available. I gave them a number of times I would be available last week and heard nothing back from them. I realise they may be busy but an email to say they were not available at those times would have been something. It's kind of putting me off trying them now.
Hi Sue
No they rang when they said they would.. xero guy wasn't as good as capium sales guy! He made the pricing for xero Seem complicated ! I do however also have an email from them with a breakdown which is easier to decifer.
I am happy to forward you that email if you'd like a bit of head start info before you speak to them
Feeling quite excited
Hi Sue
No they rang when they said they would.. xero guy wasn't as good as capium sales guy! He made the pricing for xero Seem complicated ! I do however also have an email from them with a breakdown which is easier to decifer.
I am happy to forward you that email if you'd like a bit of head start info before you speak to them
Hi lisajayne
Yes, that would be great, thank you. I will send you a private message with my email address.
I have never heard of Capium before reading this topic this morning so will have a look at that as well.
I have also just registered to attend Accountex.
Thanks
I went onto live chat and they said you get this when you register your details. All the modules too apparantly
Taxfiler I really liked and I waited 4 months for them to make the necessary improvements to accounts production to make it useable (i.e. editable account codes and accounts layout) but they kept saying it would be soon. For us with businesses that do not fit on a standard chart this was essential. They could not deliver so we could not go ahead.
Burg