Apprentice of the year 2009

blobbyh

No, you're not alone Adam but I do think it's sad us males now have to either withhold our own opinions on sensitive subjects such as this to prevent alleged offence or apologise for them in advance if we're brave/stupid enough to voice them.

I know Rias posts upset some people but I can also see where she is coming from. However, we now live in an age where if males hold supposedly "old fashioned views" we're instantly shouted down as chauvanist pigs therefore making balanced discussion practically impossible.

Bluewednesday

I've followed this discussion with some interest.

To say that no wonder kids go off the rails whilst talking about single mothers studying is downright offensive, no other way around it - it's a sweeping generalisation that is unfair!

How can anyone judge others without knowing the full facts?

As to saying that something has to give, any mother will give something from themselves rather than denying their children anything. therefore I would imagine that anyone studying whilst working full time (has circumstances that demand it) would give up their 'me' time rather than anything that affects their children! I don't know any parent, single or otherwise who wouldn't put their children first.

Jan

This thread has taken an interesting twist.

Actually, I think Ria missed my point, in that I feel mothers are pressured (by society?) to work.

Husband on high salary……. More wrong assumptions

Who said that? Mine has never been on salary, never mind a high one - we just had to manage on what he earned for a while. The name calling was uncalled for..

...it's a sweeping generalisation that is unfair!

Is what I didn't agree with, its one of my pet hates, whatever it is being generalised about.

It now appears to be the norm to work and be a new mother. Yes, something has to give, the mothers health and well being I would have thought, as they try to juggle everything. I actually feel sorry for new mothers who have to go out to work, within a few months of giving birth, for whatever reason - they are missing out on so much. Not just the early months/years of their childs life, but a whole new way of life for themselves. I made a new set of friends and discovered things about myself that I didn't know when I was working. It actually made me into a more confident person, able to meet new challenges that I never thought I would.

There is too much pressure on going back to work 3 days after giving birth

Actually Adam, I could just about get out of bed at that stage, after my 2nd :ohmy: , but I know who you are referring to, and she lost her high powered job anyway.

Robert & Adam, its refreshing in that you are different ages and hold similar views. Am I right in thinking that you both feel as a man you should be the main bread winner? I know my husband does, but I don't think of him as a male chauvanist pig, just old fashioned. Not old fashioned enough to insist I stay at home though! Perhaps I have been lucky enough to tread the middle of the road - working & studying in such a way that I was still able to give my children the attention they needed as they were growing up. I did change jobs at one point and took a lower wage, partly because through cirumstances beyond my control I was working full time.

Unfortunately men aren't on the same high salaries they were 20 years ago and costs of living are that much higher,

I'm not sure that is correct. When I was first married in the late 70's inflation was in double figures, as was the mortgage rate. It's perhaps more a case we have more to spend our money on now, not just food and shelter. We are more matialistic than we were then.

There is one suggestion/solution that I have heard voiced before but to repeat it would upset quite a few people. However, the idea does have its merits...

Come on Adam, enlighten me, this is just getting interesting!

Please note, these are the opinions of the author only, not gospel truths.

Rachey

Rias wrote: »

Been lurking for a while and just thought I'd like to contribute with a differing opinion on this thread!
All these single mothers working full time and studying.......
And we wonder why kids go off the rails........ I apologise if I cause any offence but I won't be congratulating them on their success, being a mother is the MOST important job in the world. IMHO kids need their parents.
All credit to them for trying to better themselves, but a full time job, a 3 year old, a new born and studying, you must have huge support???? Otherwise something WILL give eventually.
I assume I am quite old in comparision to a lot on this forum, I've been there and done that with the baby thing! Three of the little darlings, all bigger than me now!!!! Though I'm not super woman and only worked part time from home!!! Whilst my kids were a sleep and later whilst at school.
Well done for being nominated. I don't know how old you are but going by your salary, if full time, you are earning under minimum wage for someone over 21 years so assume you are younger, I'm sure it will improve particularly as your tutor recognised your effort. I've always found being reliable and trustworthy are the assets most employers desire. Your employer obviously recognises you are a valuable asset by giving you the raise after your appraisal, stick with it and well done, everyone has to start somewhere and you sound like you are off on the "right track".

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Have i said i was a single mother? You presumed!
If i dont work, are you going to pay my mortgage???
I study once the kids have gone to bed!!!!
And i think you'll find i DID congratulated Deano.

Who do you think you are to judge me on what i do??
My children are amazing, fantasic, clever boys and i give them everything they need emotionally.

What you said is absolutely disgusting and if i didnt work and used studying as an excuse not to then im sure you'd subject me to even more abuse than that!

Ive not long since joined this forum and if this is what it will be like then ill not bother.

There was nothing offensive in my post, i was highlighting the fact that everyone who does part time study has a story and i was giving mine as a starting point for those who wanted to add.

You're a disgrace, ive a good mind to report you to the AAT.

AdamR

Oh I hate these forums - had my reply and then instead of deleting a letter, the page interpreted my backspace as a "Back" command so back to the previous screen and lost my post!:crying:

I'm not having a good weekend!:laugh:

Jan

Ive not long since joined this forum and if this is what it will be like then ill not bother.

Please don't do that Rachey, Rias total contribution so far has been 2 posts, both on this thread.

PAMDILL

There are also mothers like myself who have a disabled husband and had no choice about going back to work as soon as full SMP ran out.

Fortunately I have awonderful boss who let me work part time for a couple of months and keep me on full wage.

I get so cheesed off when I hear people say that us working mums only go out to work to pay for holidays, cars and extras.

I go out to work to keep us off benefits.

blobbyh

Maybe I can't see this because I'm a guy but I can't see the extreme outrage with any of the two posts Rias has written. Jan, you've stood by Rachey and asked her not to leave the forums however you're all quite happy to expel Rias for expressing her own opinions which she felt forced to justify in her second - and probably last - post. Clearly, it's a passionate topic but I don't feel she's deserved the vitriol that has been flung her way.

Women are not the only people discriminated against and it's an unspoken truth that many men are too, however it's ignored beause it's not politically topical. I've suffered discrimination and from HMRC believe it or not when I once applied for a job. I'm a white, able bodied male so I was wrong on all three counts apparently. This coming from a government office! There's bugger all support - government or otherwise - when men are down and out and we're simply expected to take whatever post divorce crap comes our way.

Rias

I never presumed you were a single mother rachey, the section refering to you was two paragraphs away, what I did presume about you was that you must have fantastic support.
I thought your post was offensive as I thought it sounded as if you were telling deano he/she was nothing special and you were doing so much more..... that's the trouble with forums, the typed word can be read in so many different ways by each reader, and taken the wrong way, obviously as I did with yours and you did with mine.
I did not judge you, I'm sure your boys are everything you say they are and wish you all the best.
I don't think I said anything disgusting and I didn't abuse you.
Don't leave the forum, I will, in disgrace... when I've worked out how, already tried actually, it may have to be a case of just not logging on again.
Thanks blobbyh, you seem to have taken my coments as they were meant.

Bluewednesday

Surely you knew that posting that message would be contentious and cause debate but I don't see a reason for anyone to leave any forum.

It's only a difference of opinion, not a witch hunt!

blobbyh

I think that's incredibly sad Rias and I'm outraged myself at the way people have chosen to read between the lines in your posts. You were almost kind of humble in your posts - even proclaiming that you're not a supermum yourself - and I don't believe you've done anything to provoke the hysterical overreaction you've been given.

I know I've written some dodgy things in the past myself, but I don't feel I've ever bullied anyone into leaving and I'm kinda ashamed that you've been treated the way you have. You have nothing to feel guilty about but as for the others - well some of you are in my friends list - but today I'm feeling pretty ****ed off I can tell you... delete me if you want, I don't really give a crap anymore.

Jan

Jan, you've stood by Rachey and asked her not to leave the forums however you're all quite happy to expel Rias for expressing her own opinions.....

That wasn't my intention. But as happens many times before and no doubt will again the written word is taken the wrong way. I would never intentionally bully anyone.

I don't like falling out with anybody, so will say no more. There is no need to remove anyone from the forum or friendship list. Annette has summed it up imho

Rachey

This has been blown out of proportion, and i include myself in that.

White flag....

A-Vic

I can see this forum turning in to the age old political men v women agrument.

My view is why the heck shouldn't women be paid the same as men if we do the same job to the same expectation, why if a man feels so strongly about a parent been home to raise the children why not he stay at home? We are in an ever changing world. why is it that during ww1 and 11 it was ok for women to have to go into the armistions factorties but women in the office :ohmy: dont make me laugh

Adam you are a really nice chap but time to give up the cave (and not just adam all the guys who think men should be paid paid more than women)

Sorry if this offended anyone but please get real were here to stay and take ya jobs men

AdamR

A-Vic wrote: »

Adam you are a really nice chap but time to give up the cave (and not just adam all the guys who think men should be paid paid more than women)

I resent that - I was in the middle of a response that would've explained that that's not what I thought but it disappeared.:laugh:

I just couldn't be bothered to type it all out again!

A-Vic

AdamR wrote: »

I resent that - I was in the middle of a response that would've explained that that's not what I thought but it disappeared.:laugh:

I just couldn't be bothered to type it all out again!

Awwww let you off then for now at least