Attitude, or what?
minnymo
Registered Posts: 7 New contributor 🐸
Hi,
It's been a while since I have looked at the forums - so long, in fact, that I recently had to re-register for the forum.
I was looking for some info in the Member section and found something along the lines of what I wanted, but the attitude of some of the member's answers were quite off-putting.
It was regarding AIA and the member, like me, had qualified a few years ago and was not familiar with this. I too am in the same boat, as AIA had not been introduced and it is not part of my working criteria therefore I do not know the rules.
I found a couple of the answers given were rather derogatory, implying that the member asking the question was rather 'thick' to be a member of the AAT. I found this not very good ettiquette for a site which is supposed to be helpful and not micky-taking. I felt sorry for the member concerned and I'm now reluctant to ask any questions on here.
Perhaps, in future, people who answer questions will think about what they write, and not join in in taking the p.... out of those members who may not work in ALL aspects of Accounting proceedures, or have recently taken up employment which covers some aspect where the rules have changed since they studied. Take the p... on facebook or twitter, not on here!
Thank you for reading this.
Regards
It's been a while since I have looked at the forums - so long, in fact, that I recently had to re-register for the forum.
I was looking for some info in the Member section and found something along the lines of what I wanted, but the attitude of some of the member's answers were quite off-putting.
It was regarding AIA and the member, like me, had qualified a few years ago and was not familiar with this. I too am in the same boat, as AIA had not been introduced and it is not part of my working criteria therefore I do not know the rules.
I found a couple of the answers given were rather derogatory, implying that the member asking the question was rather 'thick' to be a member of the AAT. I found this not very good ettiquette for a site which is supposed to be helpful and not micky-taking. I felt sorry for the member concerned and I'm now reluctant to ask any questions on here.
Perhaps, in future, people who answer questions will think about what they write, and not join in in taking the p.... out of those members who may not work in ALL aspects of Accounting proceedures, or have recently taken up employment which covers some aspect where the rules have changed since they studied. Take the p... on facebook or twitter, not on here!
Thank you for reading this.
Regards
0
Comments
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Agree and disagree.
I don't actually remember the thread but...
I agree with everything you point out with regards to someone being employed and not necessarily covering AIA in your general role. Some members on here can make comments that can seem derogatory towards others.
However, sometimes I can also see and side with the views of the responding members. If for example the member asking the question is a MIP providing taxation services then this would come across as quite poor. There is a line between asking these questions as an employee or a MIP taking responsibility for a clients affairs.
As I say I have not seen this particular thread (that I am aware of) but there are questions that are asked on here (occaisionally) by MIP's that I feel can sometimes de-value my position as a MIP. By all means we all have moments where we cannot remember something and want to sound someone out but some questions are just a plain lack of basic knowledge and does bring some concern to the value of the service that MIP's clients are receiving.Regards,
Burg0 -
I will reply to the thread referred to as i was the one who replied and yes i did think it strange for someone who statied they where an MIP and for them not to know how to work out derpreciation ? And at the end of the day the person invloved didnt seem to take afence to it
http://forums.aat.org.uk/showthread.php?t=243490 -
Hi, thanks for your replies.
Yes, I do see the point than an MIP should know the answer, but I think of the Members forum as being for all MAAT's (not students) in all sectors if employment,and not just MIPs.
Maybe I'm now the one thats being thick....?!!!!!!0 -
I do see your point about the specific part of the forum.
However it does seem to be the case that MIP's and just full members post in both of the MIP's and Members section, rightly or wrongly.Regards,
Burg0 -
Thanks!!0
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am not a full member or even qualified yet but i do use that section for work related questions not sure if am ment to tho
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Whilst I agree there are some very basic questions asked in the MIP section, and yes some of those are from MIPs, I also sometimes ask questions in that section myself but am neither AAT qualified nor am I an MIP.
My understanding being that as a student this is the place to ask questions if inexperienced and and I really do appreciate their help with my studies and/or work.0 -
Not sure what the problem is. That was one of the tamest threads on this site. Nothing offensive in there that I could see. I'm sure I could dig out far better examples!!
My advice: Develop a thick skin if you are posting on here (or indeed any forum!).
If you are sensitive then don't use your real name.0 -
deanshepherd wrote: »Not sure what the problem is. That was one of the tamest threads on this site. Nothing offensive in there that I could see. I'm sure I could dig out far better examples!!
My advice: Develop a thick skin if you are posting on here (or indeed any forum!).
If you are sensitive then don't use your real name.
I personally was not referring to any particular thread.
Develop a thick skin you say, why, are you saying that anyone posting on here whatever their status should do so at the risk of being ridiculed etc?
I believe that sometimes it pays to keep opinions to ourselves, that there is nothing gained by airing our views in public. Not everyone will be as quick to learn or as fortunate as yourself, maybe a little empathy wouldn't go amiss at times.0 -
I tend to agree with the people who feel that the qualification may be being de-valued by people asking such simple questions however in the thread people are talking about i seem to remember someone posting a reply which was incorrect then later deleting this post and making another which seemed to be having a "dig" at the original poster which i feel seemed a bit over the top and was a bit suprrised by the posters quick change in attitude.
People who sometimes may have a lack of knowledge do sometimes seem to get a lot of stick maybe rightly or wrongly however i do also think there can be a problem with people giving answers that do not allways seem to be 100% correct. I know it is nice for people to get an answer to questions but as members i do not feel we should give out advice if we are not certain ourselves.0 -
Nobody has “all” the answers…..I have been on here only a short time, but do read many threads and help when and if I can. I can honestly say that every single regular on here helps everyone they can without judgement.
Some characters on here are very very different and some are blunter than others shall we say, but everyone chips in with advice. Personally I think when opinions come into areas of discussion it actually benefits the whole thread because it opens up areas of discussion which may not previously have been seen…they throw new light on ideas and how to deal with situations. There are people on here who are just starting out, career people, different types of leaders and people who are running or have run successful business. To not take advantage of their views and opinions would be a complete waste of all the experience on here….regardless of you agreeing with them or not.
I think the point has been missed, the person who needed help regarding depreciation received exactly what they came on here for…..Help. Its not about having a thick skin or being prepared to be ridiculed, its simply about accepting the fact that if you put a problem to an ever developing and evolving group of people, then you will come back with answers you agree with and don’t agree with.
You simply take what you think is best and go with it if you choose too. To say you feel uncomfortable posting a problem on here for fear of being ridiculed is in my “opinion” an insult to all the good people on here who make an effort to help anyone who posts a problem.
But then again….its just an opinion!!0 -
Lee my point was that I think it's a bit extreme to say the people should have a thick skin to ask for help on here.
And yes, of course peoples opinions are important, what I mean't was if in a member's opinion the OP asked a really basic question then sometimes there is nothing gained by replying in a negative manner towards that OP. Sometimes it's easier to just bite your lip so to speak.
And again....that's just my opinion.0 -
Lee my point was that I think it's a bit extreme to say the people should have a thick skin to ask for help on here.
And yes, of course peoples opinions are important, what I mean't was if in a member's opinion the OP asked a really basic question then sometimes there is nothing gained by replying in a negative manner towards that OP. Sometimes it's easier to just bite your lip so to speak.
And again....that's just my opinion.
my post wasnt in reply to yours my dear Evi lol0 -
Just my own 2p's worth:
People rightly comment that it's worrying to see an MIP who can't work out depreciation (and yeah, I must admit, I'd be worried by that - I mean, it's not something that's hard to research even if you've not used it for a few years).
However, it's important to remember the high ethical standard expected by the AAT as a professional body.
And that's what it's really all about, professionalism. Just as it calls into question a member's professional standing if they show a fundamental lack of knowledge, so it also calls into question a members professional standing if he does not know how - or refuses - to behave in a decent and professional manner when acting as a professional.
Twitter is one thing, but this is the AAT's publicly viewable forum, and should serve as evidence of the high standards of the AAT's members and students in all areas.
Whenever we are in a position where someone can say 'that man or woman is associated with the AAT', be it in the office, with a client, at a business function or on the AAT's forum, best behaviour should be the order of the day.
That's what I think anyway.0 -
Raging Pineapples wrote: »Just my own 2p's worth:
People rightly comment that it's worrying to see an MIP who can't work out depreciation (and yeah, I must admit, I'd be worried by that - I mean, it's not something that's hard to research even if you've not used it for a few years).
However, it's important to remember the high ethical standard expected by the AAT as a professional body.
And that's what it's really all about, professionalism. Just as it calls into question a member's professional standing if they show a fundamental lack of knowledge, so it also calls into question a members professional standing if he does not know how - or refuses - to behave in a decent and professional manner when acting as a professional.
Twitter is one thing, but this is the AAT's publicly viewable forum, and should serve as evidence of the high standards of the AAT's members and students in all areas.
Whenever we are in a position where someone can say 'that man or woman is associated with the AAT', be it in the office, with a client, at a business function or on the AAT's forum, best behaviour should be the order of the day.
That's what I think anyway.
Wow i wish i had answered in that way just summed exactly what i was trying to say 0 -
Personalities are part and parcel of this forum but to stifle the more outspoken people for the offence they may allegedly cause to others would result in a much lower quality forum. With regards to professionalism, may I add my own opinion?
1) This is an informal forum where advice is aked for - and given - at absolutely zero cost so, to me, it's rich to complain about the lack of professionalism when it's not even been charged for. You get what you pay for - and in this case it's free - so don't moan if the delivery method doesn't meet your expected standards. If it's completely professional, 100% correct advice you're after, then go ask a fully qualified accountant charging £150 per hour. Therefore I'm with Dean here: this is a chat forum not a subscription service where you're entitled to have certain expectations of value
2) I assume the person who asked for the advice is charging some kind of fee to their client so arguably don't offer a service if you can't fully deliver it. How would you react if the plumber who came to fix your leak and charging £50 an hour had to call someone up asking how to change a tap?
3) It's absurd to assume/imply that because some people are blunt on here they don't know how to act with clients in the real world.
4) While people may complain about etiquette, if you're eventually given the right information but didn't like how it was delivered - still say thank you: just like the advice, it doesn't cost anything!
JFC.0 -
I visit lots of forums and am amazed by the utter lack of sensitivity in some respondants regardless of whether they are accountancy, legal or H&S forums.
I was once advised to stop behaving like a headless chicken when I posted a H&S query, although my question was very calm and measured in its language.
I was once told my opinion was a "load of balls" on a legal forum although it was technically an accurate response to an employment law query and on here I must say I have observed some unnecessarily rude remarks.
I hate this. It is offensive. If a poster asks a stupid question, if you can help, help, if you don't wish to, why bother post something hurtful.
I recall the censure on the old forum when some students were confused by the metric weights and the abuse that this generated was shameful. I was very amused to see one of the vociferous posters on that occasion herself become confused with the metric measurement system.
This is my first and last post on here, I am far too sensitive a soul to ever post on any forum again. It's a scary world in cyberspace.0 -
I visit lots of forums and am amazed by the utter lack of sensitivity in some respondants regardless of whether they are accountancy, legal or H&S forums.
I was once advised to stop behaving like a headless chicken when I posted a H&S query, although my question was very calm and measured in its language.
I was once told my opinion was a "load of balls" on a legal forum although it was technically an accurate response to an employment law query and on here I must say I have observed some unnecessarily rude remarks.
I hate this. It is offensive. If a poster asks a stupid question, if you can help, help, if you don't wish to, why bother post something hurtful.
I recall the censure on the old forum when some students were confused by the metric weights and the abuse that this generated was shameful. I was very amused to see one of the vociferous posters on that occasion herself become confused with the metric measurement system.
This is my first and last post on here, I am far too sensitive a soul to ever post on any forum again. It's a scary world in cyberspace.
At what point was something hurtful posted, yes the persons abilty was questioned but in what aspect was this hurtful???
i will say some people feel the need to moan for moanings sake.0 -
1) This is an informal forum where advice is aked for - and given - at absolutely zero cost so, to me, it's rich to complain about the lack of professionalism when it's not even been charged for. You get what you pay for - and in this case it's free - so don't moan if the delivery method doesn't meet your expected standards. If it's completely professional, 100% correct advice you're after, then go ask a fully qualified accountant charging £150 per hour. Therefore I'm with Dean here: this is a chat forum not a subscription service where you're entitled to have certain expectations of value
2) I assume the person who asked for the advice is charging some kind of fee to their client so arguably don't offer a service if you can't fully deliver it. How would you react if the plumber who came to fix your leak and charging £50 an hour had to call someone up asking how to change a tap?
3) It's absurd to assume/imply that because some people are blunt on here they don't know how to act with clients in the real world.
4) While people may complain about etiquette, if you're eventually given the right information but didn't like how it was delivered - still say thank you: just like the advice, it doesn't cost anything!
JFC.
Is part of the AAT Professional standard not that if you are unsure to get clarity proir to giving information? Im sure this come up in professional ethics and/or audit!! IE if you dont know tax you wouldnt do a tax return you would pass to a tax collegue or seek advice to make you competant first?
I dont think the forum is the right way to do it however but I do agree if people are unsure they need to check prior to giving the information to clients!!
I also think that sometimes the way people mean something is taken the wrong way, highly due to the non face to face contact of the conversation it can be percieved in a different way, and something that was ment to be light hearted can seem agressive and rude!! the joys of modern technology!!
We are all AAT students/members/MIP's and should support each other and keep the qualification's reputation strong!!0 -
Thanks Chris, You seemed to understand my point fully.Raging Pineapples wrote: »Just my own 2p's worth:
People rightly comment that it's worrying to see an MIP who can't work out depreciation (and yeah, I must admit, I'd be worried by that - I mean, it's not something that's hard to research even if you've not used it for a few years).
However, it's important to remember the high ethical standard expected by the AAT as a professional body.
And that's what it's really all about, professionalism. Just as it calls into question a member's professional standing if they show a fundamental lack of knowledge, so it also calls into question a members professional standing if he does not know how - or refuses - to behave in a decent and professional manner when acting as a professional.
Twitter is one thing, but this is the AAT's publicly viewable forum, and should serve as evidence of the high standards of the AAT's members and students in all areas.
Whenever we are in a position where someone can say 'that man or woman is associated with the AAT', be it in the office, with a client, at a business function or on the AAT's forum, best behaviour should be the order of the day.
That's what I think anyway.
By the way, I do have a great sense of humour, but KNOW when and where to use it, along with my sometimes sarcastic tongue!
minnymo0 -
I thoroughly agree with Raging Pineapple & Big John. I've been on quite a few forums and some people seemingly think because they are online they have the right to be obnoxious, arrogant and down right rude.
Be it a blonde moment, light ignorance, or lack of knowledge or anything similar, none of these warrant rudeness amongst anyone.
Even if no one feels like they have been hurtful then we should not condem. But this thread should serve as a reminder in the back of everyone's head to consider people's feelings when posting online and basically being alive.0 -
clegganator wrote: »I thoroughly agree with Raging Pineapple & Big John. I've been on quite a few forums and some people seemingly think because they are online they have the right to be obnoxious, arrogant and down right rude.
Be it a blonde moment, light ignorance, or lack of knowledge or anything similar, none of these warrant rudeness amongst anyone.
Even if no one feels like they have been hurtful then we should not condem. But this thread should serve as a reminder in the back of everyone's head to consider people's feelings when posting online and basically being alive.
Agreed0 -
clegganator wrote: »I thoroughly agree with Raging Pineapple & Big John. I've been on quite a few forums and some people seemingly think because they are online they have the right to be obnoxious, arrogant and down right rude.
Be it a blonde moment, light ignorance, or lack of knowledge or anything similar, none of these warrant rudeness amongst anyone.
Even if no one feels like they have been hurtful then we should not condem. But this thread should serve as a reminder in the back of everyone's head to consider people's feelings when posting online and basically being alive.
I believe this is what is known as the snowball effect.
A few people now have mentioned what they have seen in other forums, if its not in this one....whats the problem?
If its not in here......dont bring it in here...
I think its time to change the record0 -
What is the matter with you all.......life is far too short for all this disagreeing......does it really matter who is right/wrong.......everyone can ask a question that seems unecessary to some one else or simple to someones else...but it is only simple to those that know the answer....and who can put their hand on there heart and say they have NEVER been in that position........if you can't ask fellow AAT students a question without all this hassel, wether you think it should have been asked in the first place ,then I personally think that is pretty sad...........................0
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What is the matter with you all.......life is far too short for all this disagreeing......does it really matter who is right/wrong.......everyone can ask a question that seems unecessary to some one else or simple to someones else...but it is only simple to those that know the answer....and who can put their hand on there heart and say they have NEVER been in that position........if you can't ask fellow AAT students a question without all this hassel, wether you think it should have been asked in the first place ,then I personally think that is pretty sad...........................
Totally agree 100% 0 -
I recall the censure on the old forum when some students were confused by the metric weights and the abuse that this generated was shameful. I was very amused to see one of the vociferous posters on that occasion herself become confused with the metric measurement system.
I too remember that and we're talking what, two or three years ago now? I also seem to remember it was done very tongue in cheek, the people who got confused became overly hysterical and some of them quite nasty: admittedly I was one of the main antagonists but some of the comments I received back were truly hateful.
Which proves what precisely?
I'm still here and I still contribute, often light-hearted, occasionally serious, but I won't ever dumb myself down simply because someone's gonna have a cow if they don't mind what I write but criticise how I write it. As I said before, the information here might often be blunt, but it's always free and entirely up to the user how they choose to take it. This is ultimately a chat forum not a paid up advice line, and there are several different styles of contributor where differences of opinion will take often take place.
If the meek want the same advice but delivered more professionally, they have a choice to subscribe elsewhere and pay for it.0 -
I have to agree with Robert, the last thing any of us need (or should want) is a sanitised, bland forum where no one says what they think or shares what they know or have experienced just because they are afraid of being seen as too blunt.
So
No to abuse
Yes to vigorous debate
Yes to asking questions but think about where you posting them, and give more background info rather than less.0 -
Just to clarify on my comment about people not always giving the right answer i am not saying people shouldnt be allowed to give their opinions on topics i was just talking about the very rare occasions when somebody gives advice on a subject they dont necesseraly know much about and that it may be better left to see if someone who has knowledge of a subject is willing to post an answer. Obviously the forum is free and people can post what they like i just meant it more as something i would do and its not something everybody else has to follow
Also about the remark that it is rich to expect a forum to give 100% correct tax advice etc i certainly dont expect this and its never been an issue for me as up until now ive not asked for any advice0
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