Setting up as MIP

GlynisGlynis Trusted RegularRegistered Posts: 488
I have been trying for months to get a job in practice without success so I'm thinking of setting up on my own. Can some of you who are already self emloyed give me some advice on how I do this?

Thankyou.
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Comments

  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Glynis wrote: »
    I have been trying for months to get a job in practice without success so I'm thinking of setting up on my own. Can some of you who are already self emloyed give me some advice on how I do this?

    Thankyou.

    get experience of working in practise
  • jiltjilt Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,903
    Glynis as you're an ACCA student, or at least I think you are, you can only do bookkeeping as an MIP I'm afriad. I believe also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, that ACCA won't grant a licence to practice until you have 3 years practical experince after you've qualified with them.
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,069
    jilt wrote: »
    Glynis as you're an ACCA student, or at least I think you are, you can only do bookkeeping as an MIP I'm afriad. I believe also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, that ACCA won't grant a licence to practice until you have 3 years practical experince after you've qualified with them.

    Spot on.

    Glynis if you don't have experience of working in practice, then you won't be granted a practicing licence by the AAT, so you'll just have to persevere with trying to find a job in practice.
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,954
    Monsoon wrote: »
    Spot on.

    Glynis if you don't have experience of working in practice, then you won't be granted a practicing licence by the AAT, so you'll just have to persevere with trying to find a job in practice.

    Working for a small accountancy firm could be good. Especially one looking to expand, but you may need to take low wages as the exchange for learning the ropes..
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Surely that's not right! why when I have AAT anyway should I not be a MIP ? So even if I work under AAT licence, ACCA will still deny me to work as MIP ? How can they do that ?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    its the rules
  • BluewednesdayBluewednesday Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,624
    Because it's their rules. You can work as an MIP but only doing bookkeeping, VAT returns and payroll, no tax returns etc. I imagine that you have experience in those items so you should get an AAT licence but as far as I know AAT will not licence you to do things that you have no outside experience in.

    If you want to study with them you have to accept their rules. I have worked in practice for 9 years but ACCA won't allow me to do more than bookkeeping, payroll, VAT etc because you have to have an ACCA practicing certificate which to get means you have to work for an ACCA practice for 3 years (2 years post qualifying).
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    I would like to have studied an extra 3.5 - 4 years (on average) just to have someone a lot less qualified doing the same work otherwise ask your self this why even bother sitting ACCA?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Because it's their rules. You can work as an MIP but only doing bookkeeping, VAT returns and payroll, no tax returns etc. I imagine that you have experience in those items so you should get an AAT licence but as far as I know AAT will not licence you to do things that you have no outside experience in.

    If you want to study with them you have to accept their rules. I have worked in practice for 9 years but ACCA won't allow me to do more than bookkeeping, payroll, VAT etc because you have to have an ACCA practicing certificate which to get means you have to work for an ACCA practice for 3 years (2 years post qualifying).

    Blue so even if you have 5 years experiance starting ACCA you still have to have 2 years after before you can get your practise certificate?
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,069
    Glynis wrote: »
    Surely that's not right!
    It is. Many have whinged about it (including me), and it makes no difference. If you want to be an ACCA, you live by their rules.
    why when I have AAT anyway should I not be a MIP ?

    You can only get MIP status if you can prove you have enough experience to do so. Exams are a far cry from the reality of working in practice. It's not fair of the AAT to unleash brand newly qualifieds with no experience onto the general public who haven't got a clue how working in practice works, no matter how good they did in their exams.
    So even if I work under AAT licence, ACCA will still deny me to work as MIP ? How can they do that ?

    Because it's the rules. (well said A-Vic, tried to give you some rep for that but apparently you were the last person I gave rep to, so it wouldn't let me!)
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 4,069
    Ought to add: Glynis I'm not sure if you're a MAAT or a student member. If you're the latter you can be self employed up to the level of your own competence but not take on anything you can't do, and mustn't refer to the AAT in any way. You must still abide by the ACCA rules though.

    If you're a MAAT you have to qualify for MIP status if you want to work for yourself.
  • BluewednesdayBluewednesday Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 1,624
    A-Vic wrote: »
    Blue so even if you have 5 years experiance starting ACCA you still have to have 2 years after before you can get your practise certificate?

    That's absolutely right, and if those 5 years are not in an ACCA practice - they won't count anyway
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    That's absolutely right, and if those 5 years are not in an ACCA practice - they won't count anyway

    o ok thanks :)
  • andrewtdkandrewtdk Well-Known Registered Posts: 150
    I think its a good thing that the AAT dont just let people who pass the exams become a MIP as it would under value the whole qualification.

    I found the AAT quite easy and have gone on to study ATT but based on the situations that have come up at work i would still not feel confident working for my self as there are many things that i still dont know and this would not be fair to clients.

    I would like to see the AAT also have a minimum requirement for post qualification experience before people can become a MIP to stop people who arent capable of doing the work. Maybe this or having a level above technician would help the qualification be taken more seriously so more banks would accept work done by an MIP

    Just my thoughts

    Andrew
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Well I think ACCA are ridiculous. So not only is it impossible to get a job in a firm but even with the AAT qualification I can't even set up as a MIP! How can the ACCA tell AAT people what to do? Its ridiculous.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Glynis wrote: »
    Well I think ACCA are ridiculous. So not only is it impossible to get a job in a firm but even with the AAT qualification I can't even set up as a MIP! How can the ACCA tell AAT people what to do? Its ridiculous.

    if you felt as strongly about this as you made out give up your acca studies apply for MIP and set up your own business
  • RachelRachel Trusted Regular FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 349
    ACCA ridiculous? Of course they can tell you what to do if you want their qualification and you have to abide by their rules. If not quit ACCA and become a MIP
  • GlynisGlynis Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 488
    Rachel I just feel that if you have a respected qualification like AAT other bodies should recognise it. For people in my situation its a major setback.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    Glynis wrote: »
    Rachel I just feel that if you have a respected qualification like AAT other bodies should recognise it. For people in my situation its a major setback.

    How? its not as if you would be able to become MIP anyway is it as you dont have expenience?
  • RachelRachel Trusted Regular FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 349
    ACCA don't agree, their rules they can do what they want. If you really want the prestigious qualification than you have to abide by their rules else they will strike you off. But hey ACCA might see that Glynis is complaining and change their rules
  • Bookworm55Bookworm55 Trusted Regular Registered Posts: 479
    Rachel wrote: »
    ACCA ridiculous? Of course they can tell you what to do if you want their qualification and you have to abide by their rules. If not quit ACCA and become a MIP

    That's a fair point, but ACCA are far stricter with their students' practicing requirements and when and where you can earn the experience for full membership than, say, CIMA. I'm sure there's a reason for it though.
  • RachelRachel Trusted Regular FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 349
    Bookworm55 wrote: »
    That's a fair point, but ACCA are far stricter with their students' practicing requirements and when and where you can earn the experience for full membership than, say, CIMA. I'm sure there's a reason for it though.

    I am not actually saying I agree but rules are the rules and they must be in place for a reason.

    I am lucky I passed ACCA in 2003 and recently obtained my practising certificate with them and I was under different rules as a member for over 7 years.
  • RachelRachel Trusted Regular FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 349
    Anyway ACCA do recognise AAT, you get exemptions from exams don't you?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    But arnt the rules there for a reason - lets say for instance a doctor fresh out of uni feels he/she knows everything but does that mean they can perform open heart surgery no i would like to think years of training lead up to that point.

    Accountants do in a sence hold peoples lives in there hands so to be trained to the best of their ability is in the best interest of the client!
  • RachelRachel Trusted Regular FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant Posts: 349
    A-Vic wrote: »
    But arnt the rules there for a reason - lets say for instance a doctor fresh out of uni feels he/she knows everything but does that mean they can perform open heart surgery no i would like to think years of training lead up to that point.

    Accountants do in a sence hold peoples lives in there hands so to be trained to the best of their ability is in the best interest of the client!

    I agree!

    People that think the world owe them really annoy me
  • sdvsdv Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 585
    Rachel wrote: »
    I am not actually saying I agree but rules are the rules and they must be in place for a reason.

    Investors, HMRC, Suppliers, Trade Unions and in fact any interested party in the company for which a recognised qualified accountant has signed the accounts is assuring them of the reliability, honesty and integrity of the accounts.

    If any recognised qualified accountant compromises with any of the above qualities, not only that accountant looses his integrity but the accounts qualifications awarding body is also tainted together with every accountant from that awarding body, who has spent years to achieve that accounting qualifications.

    It would be definitely unfair on the qualified accountant if its awarding body did not protect the status and trust earned after decades of supplying quality services of reliability and honesty, which has become a standard seal in form of the accountant’s signature.

    Once you have achieved the status and practicing certificate of ACCA/ACA your authorisation will have great weight that will have to be borne with huge responsibility. You can sign off accounts of a small market trader as well as a multi-million international company and they will be accepted witout any questions. Investments and other important decisions will be taken on the strength of that signature.

    The practicing certificate does not have different categories. Therefore it is imperative to issue a practicing certificate to a suitable person.

    Under the current studying structure of AAT and ACCA you do not need to be working in an accounting environment to fully qualify and become members of these bodies.

    If these members were allowed to practice and sign off these accounts would you trust the validity and authenticity of those accounts?

    One of the test I would recommend to any aspiring MIPs is; how would you deal with a credit cash account balance when preparing accounts for a sole trader with incomplete records.

    There are many other questions that an accountant has to deal with that has not been taught by books, colleges or service providers.

    At year end when your client provides with a closing stock figures; how do you know they are realistic? What are the implications on the margins? What view will HMRC take on these values? Etc……..

    Be aware insurance company may not insure you for indemnity if they are not satisfied with your competency to work as a MIP
  • RinskeRinske Font Of All Knowledge Registered Posts: 2,453
    I've always learned that the 3 years you need before you are allowed to set up your own practice can be explained in the following (different country, but same principle):

    A lot of unqualified bookkeepers would hire an accountant fresh finished studying to sign off their accounts. The bookkeepers than can offer accounts practices to everyone and put their prices up. Those that just finished would not have the experience to really tell what they signed off, so they would sign off accounts, while not really knowing if it was right or wrong.

    Once the companies found out the signed accounts are not correct/ something is missing/ something goes wrong, the young accountant gets kicked out of his accounting body and usually gets a huge fine, not to mention that he can be sued by the company if they loose money because of it, while if not careful the bookkeeper just gets away and probably just hires a new accountant.

    So it's not just to protect the accounting bodies, but also the accountants, because would you really want to end up being kicked out of the accounting body after so many years studying, just because someone decided to use it in the wrong way?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Registered Posts: 6,970
    read this and found it perfect

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
    George Bernard Shaw
  • *Jo*Jo Experienced Mentor Registered Posts: 509
    A-Vic wrote: »
    read this and found it perfect

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
    George Bernard Shaw

    Well said :)
  • YestinYestin Feels At Home Registered Posts: 83
    We need a new Glynis post....True Blood season 2 has come to an end and I need a new drama.
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