Do I need Level 3?

E StoreyE Storey Feels At HomePosts: 32Registered
Hi,

I started studying Level 4 Diploma about 18 months ago when I was working as a temp. Since I had to pay for it all myself and work was sporradic I didn't do level 3 as I could not afford it.

I am now close to finishing that level, I know I need to do the ethics paper from level three. (I really need to get motivated to do it). But will that be enough to apply for MAAT?
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Comments

  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    E Storey wrote: »
    Hi,

    I started studying Level 4 Diploma about 18 months ago when I was working as a temp. Since I had to pay for it all myself and work was sporradic I didn't do level 3 as I could not afford it.

    I am now close to finishing that level, I know I need to do the ethics paper from level three. (I really need to get motivated to do it). But will that be enough to apply for MAAT?

    Am a little confused so are you saying you totally skipped levels 2 and 3 and just went on to do the final year?? If this is the case i think you need to get in contact with your training provider asap unfortunately as i understand it you need ALL OF LEVELS 3 & 4 to gain the qualifaction (level 2 not many do this level its more of an introduction) Also i thought you couldnt do level 4 till level 3 was completed?????
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Hi

    Have a look at http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item1687

    Generally you need 3 and 4 but if your tutor can confirm you had sufficient experience to begin at level 4 you may not require level 3.

    Neil
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    Hi

    Have a look at http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item1687

    Generally you need 3 and 4 but if your tutor can confirm you had sufficient experience to begin at level 4 you may not require level 3.

    Neil

    Neil are you sure, i know of student in my college that missed one or two units of level 3 that have been told without completing all of them wont complete?
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    Achieving MAAT status via the AAT Accounting qualification

    To apply for MAAT status, you’ll usually need to have:

    been an AAT student member for 12 months
    achieved levels 3 and 4 of the AAT Accounting Qualification.

    Taken from your link - if this isnt the case i am really annoyied and have wasted a lot of money
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    A-Vic wrote: »
    Achieving MAAT status via the AAT Accounting qualification

    To apply for MAAT status, you’ll usually need to have:

    been an AAT student member for 12 months
    achieved levels 3 and 4 of the AAT Accounting Qualification.

    Taken from your link - if this isnt the case i am really annoyied and have wasted a lot of money

    Read the page a little further...

    "You may have a qualification or professional experience in place of level 3. This should have been confirmed by your AAT tutor as sufficient for you to begin studying at level 4."

    It is worth noting that (I believe) ACCA base their exemptions on completion of both level 3 and 4. Not sure about ICAEW, but (again I believe) CIMA base theirs on level 4 only.

    Neil
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    Read the page a little further...

    "You may have a qualification or professional experience in place of level 3. This should have been confirmed by your AAT tutor as sufficient for you to begin studying at level 4."

    Neil

    Well am really annoyed and was miss advised by the AAT and college as I have 5 years plus accountancy experience 2.5 previous to starting the qualification and was told by both I had to complete all units of both levels for Diploma (could only do part-time study thats why I had to do diploma) with this i wouldnt be doing the portfollio as work based evidence
  • E StoreyE Storey Feels At Home Posts: 32Registered
    Well I do have a lot of experience and I did do a years worth of independent study before I started level 4. Of course most of that experience is not counted towards my qualification as it was before I registered as a student. In fact I am finding it hard to get the required weeks worth signed off, due to the on/off nature of agency and self employed work!

    For example I was working in one role supervising clerks who were studying level 3.

    You certainly can SIT the exams as I have now sat, and passed all mine apart from Auditing (and ethics from level 3). Kaplan certainly pushed for me to do level 3, but I was insistent, there was simply no way I could afford another £1,000.

    The original plan was to move onto CIMA, but now I am starting my own company as a self employed bookkeeper, and would like some form of accreditation.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    In that case id ring the AAT and find out what it is you need and discuss your options
  • jenny3549jenny3549 Trusted Regular Posts: 472Registered
    I'll be miffed as well if I didn't need to do level 3! I had ten years experience prior to starting the course and asked if I could go in at level 4 but was told that I could only have done that if I had a degree in Accountancy! In fact, I had to do unit 31 as part of level three since I was skipping 2.

    Will be very interested to know if I have just wasted the last six months!!!

    :001_huh:
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    Am glad someone can see the point i was trying to make, this qualifaction has taken a lotta stick over the last few months by people posting about they cant get jobs ect and i have backed it every time because i know what work i had to do to get asfar as i have, but then too hear someone could as qualified as me after one year makes me sick - sorry i know but its true why even bother
  • jiltjilt Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 2,903Registered
    I had nearly 20 years experience working in accounts when I started AAT, Premier Training told me to start at level 3 and I have to be honest it wasn't until I started level 4 that I learn't anything new except some stuff in ECR. Maybe they've changed the rules.

    But, I've been arsing around for so long with this course because of lots of little hurdles (and some not so little) along the way. I started it in 2006 and it's only been since September last year that I've really got back into it, largely due to my good friend A-Vic.

    Suppose what I'm trying to say is so what if they've changed the rules, bad timing on our part, that's the luck of the draw, and I honestly think if I had started at level 4 back in 2006 I wouldn't be where I am now. I work part time as an employee and I have a small practice of my own, mainly sole traders which is building up nicely, slowly but that's how I like it and I am very happy (well most of the time as Monsoon and farmergiles have had many of my 'oh why am I doing this' lol).

    Try not to look at it as wasted time, what's done is done and doing level 3 may have helped ease us into level 4, after all we've all said how much harder DFS and MAC were compared to FRA and ECR.

    Hope you all get whatever it is you're striving for but remember to enjoy life along the way.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    Well said Jill :-)

    Now go finish that project :lol:
  • jenny3549jenny3549 Trusted Regular Posts: 472Registered
    jilt wrote: »
    Try not to look at it as wasted time, what's done is done and doing level 3 may have helped ease us into level 4, after all we've all said how much harder DFS and MAC were compared to FRA and ECR.

    QUOTE]

    You are right! I shouldn't have said wasted. Like A-Vic it would just have been frustrating to have been told to do an extra year if others weren't.

    Even with the experience I suppose I'm still glad to have done this level as the last time I studied and took exams was quite a while ago so I suppose it has really helped ease me into it. Maybe if I'd had to hit the ground running with Technician I may have run for the hills after so long away from studying.

    Anyway, I'm going to be proud of myself to have done level 3 (assuming I pass the exams of course!) as I know that I put a lot of work in so that's the most important thing.

    There we go, feeling all positive now - roll on Monday!

    :001_smile:
  • jiltjilt Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 2,903Registered
    jenny3549 wrote: »

    Even with the experience I suppose I'm still glad to have done this level as the last time I studied and took exams was quite a while ago so I suppose it has really helped ease me into it. Maybe if I'd had to hit the ground running with Technician I may have run for the hills after so long away from studying.

    :001_smile:

    I think you're right Jenny, I'm sure I would have been first up those hills!

    Good luck for Monday
  • sdvsdv Experienced Mentor Posts: 585Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    Hi

    Have a look at http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item1687

    Generally you need 3 and 4 but if your tutor can confirm you had sufficient experience to begin at level 4 you may not require level 3.

    Neil

    You are abosolutely correct.

    However, you do need your level4 tutor to agree that you do not need to complete level3 because you may already have an equivalent qualification or work experience.

    We have had at least 2 students completing level 4 and admitted by AAT for full membership.

    This is also true under new 2010 standards.
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    sdv wrote: »
    you may already have an equivalent qualification or work experience.

    I don't think this is a good thing. The work experience can be very subjective and easy to falsify!
  • jiltjilt Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 2,903Registered
    PGM wrote: »
    I don't think this is a good thing. The work experience can be very subjective and easy to falsify!

    Have to agree with you there PGM
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 4,071FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant
    PGM wrote: »
    I don't think this is a good thing. The work experience can be very subjective and easy to falsify!

    Work experience can be easy to falsify for full membership regardless of whether you've done 1,2 or 3 years of the qualification.

    On the one hand, if someone is good enough to pass level 4, then they are good enough.
    On the other hand, level 3 teaches different skills to level 4.

    I did levels 3 and 4 (exempted from level 2 due to my music degree :lol:) and I think both levels need doing, if only to consolidate knowledge. Just because someone has produced partnership accounts in practice doesn't mean they know everything about how to do it (and may actaully find the refresher useful, or discover something they've been doing wrong). That same person might not know anything about costing, so those modules teach something. And vice versa for someone in industry.

    Partly, I feel a bit like it's devaluing the qualification if you can get it in one year. On the other hand I can imagine it's really frustrating for level 3 students who really can do it all standing on their heads (in which case just turn up for the exams?!). However if they can't, maybe it's good that they are doing it. On another other hand, maybe it's good for people who are QBE and want a recognised qual who don't want to go through years of arguably unnecessary study to get there. But then that's what ICPA is for...

    Easy to argue both sides of this one.
  • E StoreyE Storey Feels At Home Posts: 32Registered
    Interesting that people are upset about me somehow "skipping level three"

    I have 10 years experence and a numerate degree (not music!), Plus I studied for a year on my own. I still have to do the ethics paper at least from level three.

    If I was not at the required standard I would not have passed the level 4 exams surely? But then again there would have been nothing stopping me sitting all the level three and four exams in one sitting so theoretically I could have passed in three months!

    It is not the AAT that force people to do level three but the training providers. On the whole it is probably good advice, after all you would not want to waste money on level 4 then fail because you lacked the basics. And had I not studied on my own I certainly would have struggled to pass the exams I did sit. I certainly took longer to do them than I would have otherwise.

    I am intelligent, articulate and pushy. If I am paying £1,000 for a course (Where my contact with a tutor is limited to marking 1-2 progress texts in writing I can barely read) I expect to cross-examine the provider on exactly what I need. I also quite often ring them and complain when they give duff advice! (I was not happy about my report coming back with corrections after it had already been supposedly checked. Nor did I accept their silly ruling that an e-mail header is not as good as headed paper for authentication). Don't take no for an answer from these providers, quite often you are speaking to an admin assistant who's been in the job 2 weeks, and reading from a crib sheet.


    Edit: Maybe I just got to skip it because I'm SPECIAL!
  • coojeecoojee Experienced Mentor Posts: 794Registered
    I'm an FCCA and the AAT tried to tell me that I had to do Level 4 to get AAT!!! I don't think so! In the end manage to speak to someone with a brain who said of course I didn't need to do Level 4.
  • sdvsdv Experienced Mentor Posts: 585Registered
    E Storey wrote: »
    ............It is not the AAT that force people to do level three but the training providers.

    This is not true. Until about 2/3 years ago, AAT required all the student members to complete atleast Level3 and Level4 before admitting them as full members.

    For some reasons this policy was changed, but it appers that not all the tutors/service providers are aware of this. However, the level4 tutor has to satisfy himself/herself that a prospective student is competent at level 3 before agreeing to allow that student to work at level 4 only.

    But in your case, the situation is different. You have done level 4 on your own accord without the service provider agreeing to give you an exemption from completing level 3.
    E Storey wrote: »
    I am intelligent, articulate and pushy. ...........I also quite often ring them and complain..................

    Don't take no for an answer from these providers......................

    I don't think I would advocate people to adopt the above attitude! We work with people all the time and as professionals we would tolerate some attitude from our clients. Relationships are a two way street. Time will come when the attitude client will want us to do things that are not part of the contract or the job remit. And you could guess what could happen next.

    The service providers and tutors are more likely to help you and solve the problems rather then putting the obstacles in achieving your goals. But then if you feel that the tutors/service providers are always a problem, then step back and look at the relationship objectively. Payment of the fees/charges will buy you the services but not the devotion and dedication given that are beyond the agreed services.

    E Storey wrote: »
    Don't take no for an answer from these providers, quite often you are speaking to an admin assistant who's been in the job 2 weeks, and reading from a crib sheet.

    If this was true, the service providers will be soon out of the business.

    E Storey wrote: »

    I started studying Level 4 Diploma about 18 months ago...............I didn't do level 3............

    I am now close to finishing that level, I know I need to do the ethics paper from level three. ................But will that be enough to apply for MAAT?


    Now that you have received interesting advise, keep us posted on what happens next.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    E Storey wrote: »
    Edit: Maybe I just got to skip it because I'm SPECIAL!

    hmmmm o well
  • exam panicexam panic Well-Known Posts: 157Registered
    I think you could do if aat allows you I f you are clever you can pick up quickly (not like me I have to do level before level 4 )by the way I did skip level 2 .
  • JaffasGirlJaffasGirl Trusted Regular Posts: 387Registered
    coojee wrote: »
    I'm an FCCA and the AAT tried to tell me that I had to do Level 4 to get AAT!!! I don't think so! In the end manage to speak to someone with a brain who said of course I didn't need to do Level 4.

    may i ask what made you decide to do AAT? i was always under the impression that ACCA covered everything in AAT but in greater detail. Surely this was just going over old ground?
  • E StoreyE Storey Feels At Home Posts: 32Registered
    sdv wrote: »
    This is not true. Until about 2/3 years ago, AAT required all the student members to complete atleast Level3 and Level4 before admitting them as full members.

    For some reasons this policy was changed, but it appers that not all the tutors/service providers are aware of this. However, the level4 tutor has to satisfy himself/herself that a prospective student is competent at level 3 before agreeing to allow that student to work at level 4 only.

    But in your case, the situation is different. You have done level 4 on your own accord without the service provider agreeing to give you an exemption from completing level 3.

    Well clearly if the service provider allowed me to study level 4 with them they DID exempt me from level 3. Had i failed my level 4 exams though, i would have had noone to blame but myself!

    As this is a recent change (and certainly was 1-2 years ago when most of us enrolled), perhaps this explains the collective confusion.
  • A-VicA-Vic Expertise Guaranteed Posts: 6,970Registered
    well anyway as i said before your best bet is to ring the AAT or your training provider to find out exactly what you need to complete the course
  • coojeecoojee Experienced Mentor Posts: 794Registered
    JaffasGirl wrote: »
    may i ask what made you decide to do AAT? i was always under the impression that ACCA covered everything in AAT but in greater detail. Surely this was just going over old ground?

    I was going to go into practice and it's easier to get a practicing certificate as an AAT than an ACCA. I would have had to give up my ACCA qual though. In the end I decided against it. I wasn't "doing" AAT, I just needed the qual to get the practicing certificate.
  • coojeecoojee Experienced Mentor Posts: 794Registered
    E Storey wrote: »
    Hi,

    I started studying Level 4 Diploma about 18 months ago when I was working as a temp. Since I had to pay for it all myself and work was sporradic I didn't do level 3 as I could not afford it.

    I am now close to finishing that level, I know I need to do the ethics paper from level three. (I really need to get motivated to do it). But will that be enough to apply for MAAT?

    What units have you already done? If you've got Unit 11, 33, 10 and 2 options you could transfer to the new standards and not then need to do ethics at all.
  • sdvsdv Experienced Mentor Posts: 585Registered
    E Storey wrote: »
    Well clearly if the service provider allowed me to study level 4 with them they DID exempt me from level 3.

    Although I can follow your logic, it's not true here.

    AAT is a flexiable qualification and you can choose to do any units and in any order. You do not have to follow the set structure. And if you follow the forum regularly, you will come across students who will have completed level 4 units and then start on level 2 unit or level 3 unit.

    Currently I believe Taskey is completing her skills test for unit 6, after completing some or all of level 4 units.

    In all probability, the service provider would have advised you to do level 3 before starting level 4 but if you insist on starting level 4 they are not likely to argue with you because you know what you want and at the end of the day they are a commercial venture.

    I would be inclined to accept your conclusion if a FE colleges would have allowed you to enrol on level 4 before completing level 3. They are not a commercial organisation and are paid incentives on the student's sucess/acheivement

    But if you can secure the exemption from level 3 from your service provider, then that would be grate not only for you but other students who may be in a similar position as yours.

    Keeps us posted on what happens.
  • E StoreyE Storey Feels At Home Posts: 32Registered
    coojee wrote: »
    What units have you already done? If you've got Unit 11, 33, 10 and 2 options you could transfer to the new standards and not then need to do ethics at all.

    I don't need to do Ethics?

    Someone please confirm this is true... The book's been sat on my desk looking at me for months! I'd love to chuck it out!
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